[Guest]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

[killthegoat06]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

[UK1679666180]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

I don't think either are long-term answers for hitting leadoff. Pie will likely hit for a higher avg. but will have to improve his apporach obviously. Patterson, I don't think will be a good enough hitter.

 

Pie is going to have to cut down his Ks and follow the mold of Crawford with the Rays.

[CoolHandLuke]

Patterson still hit .263 in AA this year at 23. He had a hot stretch in the fall league but the conditions in the AFL extremely favor the hitters so take those numbers with a grain of salt. I like Patterson but imo Pie is still a superior prospect by a good margin. (And it's not like CF is a position chock full of hitters, and Pie seems to play premium defense, wheras Patterson seems to have some defensive questions)

 

*note on Patience*

 

Patterson's IsoD: .063

Pie's IsoD: .058

 

Well, I find it humorous that you refer to Patterson's .263 average seemingly to say he had a mediocre year, but then you use IsoD later in the post. As you probably know, batting average is a really lousy stat to evaluate a player's performance. And by the way, he hit .358 at Iowa.

 

As for AFL, he ranked in the top 10 in BA (there's that stat again!), OBP and OPS, so regardless of it being a hitter's league, he was one of the best players in the league. And, it should be noted that the Southern League traditionally favors pitchers.

 

I don't think I need to do much to say that Patterson had a mediocre year in the SL. His final line was .263/.330/.408 to go along with average at best defense. While I do like Patterson, I just don't see what he has done that justifies drooling over him joining the lineup in 2008. His .358 at Iowa was impressive but it came in only 60 some at bats so I don't think you can use that to form much of an opinion. Patterson definately has more leadoff potential than Pie and definately has a better shot of reaching his upside but Pie's ceiling is so much higher than Patterson's.

[Vinestal]

Patterson still hit .263 in AA this year at 23. He had a hot stretch in the fall league but the conditions in the AFL extremely favor the hitters so take those numbers with a grain of salt. I like Patterson but imo Pie is still a superior prospect by a good margin. (And it's not like CF is a position chock full of hitters, and Pie seems to play premium defense, wheras Patterson seems to have some defensive questions)

 

*note on Patience*

 

Patterson's IsoD: .063

Pie's IsoD: .058

 

Well, I find it humorous that you refer to Patterson's .263 average seemingly to say he had a mediocre year, but then you use IsoD later in the post. As you probably know, batting average is a really lousy stat to evaluate a player's performance. And by the way, he hit .358 at Iowa.

 

As for AFL, he ranked in the top 10 in BA (there's that stat again!), OBP and OPS, so regardless of it being a hitter's league, he was one of the best players in the league. And, it should be noted that the Southern League traditionally favors pitchers.

 

I don't think I need to do much to say that Patterson had a mediocre year in the SL. His final line was .263/.330/.408 to go along with average at best defense. While I do like Patterson, I just don't see what he has done that justifies drooling over him joining the lineup in 2008. His .358 at Iowa was impressive but it came in only 60 some at bats so I don't think you can use that to form much of an opinion. Patterson definately has more leadoff potential than Pie and definately has a better shot of reaching his upside but Pie's ceiling is so much higher than Patterson's.

 

Much of the recent excitement over EP is because of the numbers he put up in the AFL this fall. Also its not like we have alot of possition players to get excited about, so it doesnt take much.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't think I need to do much to say that Patterson had a mediocre year in the SL. His final line was .263/.330/.408 to go along with average at best defense. While I do like Patterson, I just don't see what he has done that justifies drooling over him joining the lineup in 2008. His .358 at Iowa was impressive but it came in only 60 some at bats so I don't think you can use that to form much of an opinion. Patterson definately has more leadoff potential than Pie and definately has a better shot of reaching his upside but Pie's ceiling is so much higher than Patterson's.

 

263/330/408 is not a bad line for a second baseman in a pitcher's league. And that's about 3/4 of a season, whereas last year and his time in Iowa and in the AFL, he has raked. He also has shown much more ability to steal bases than Pie. And, he's been among the top 20 prospects in all of the leagues he has played in so far. I don't see how any of this suggests that he shouldn't be in the lineup in 2008, provided that he proves himself in Iowa.

[TruffleShuffle]

Much of the recent excitement over EP is because of the numbers he put up in the AFL this fall. Also its not like we have alot of possition players to get excited about, so it doesnt take much.

 

Oh believe me, I was on the bandwagon way before that. Since the day he was drafted, actually.

[CoolHandLuke]

I would love it if EP steps up and fills the leadoff/2B hole in '08 but I am most certainly not counting on it. Very little about his career so far suggests "can't miss" and if I guy does not fit that description I have a hard time penciling him in this far ahead. With a solid showing next year in AAA and a quality september look he definately would be a candidate but I don't think we can count on him yet. At his best i see him being a quality above average hitter, but I see Pie being a superstar at his best.

[Diffusion]

From July 4th through the end of the season, Felix Pie hit .331/.378/.532 in 269 plate appearances at Triple-A. He was, of course, still only 21, in his first season at Iowa no less. In those 269 plate appearances he hit 20 doubles, 3 triples and 8 home runs, walked 19 times, struck out 48 times, stole 11 bases and was caught stealing 3 times.

 

Pie's overall numbers then of .282/.341/.451, supremely respectable in themselves for someone of his youth and inexperience, don't actually tell the full story of his season. He even actually started out hot, cooled to just about frozen for the two months or so up until July 3rd, dragging his numbers all the way down to .244/.312/.429, and only then went on the rampage the rest of the year to bring his numbers back up.

 

The very hot prolonged finish to the year could be an indication that Pie's closer than might be expected based his overall numbers to being done with minor league ball and being ready for the step up the majors. I fully expect he'll struggle horribly at first in the majors, and that it'll take him longer to turn things around than a month or two, but his induction has to come at some point, and it'd be better to get it over and done with at a point where the rest of the lineup is strong enough to carry a dead weight. Put Lugo at shortstop, Soriano at second perhaps with Jones and DeRosa platooning in right field, Lee, Ramirez, Barrett and Murton obviously rounding things out, and that'd probably be the case. In other words, assuming Pie is just about too good for Triple-A, bringing him up sooner rather than later might potentially be a good idea.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

Pie definitely isn't a leadoff hitter.

[CoolHandLuke]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

Pie definitely isn't a leadoff hitter.

 

I agree, but do you think Hendry does?

[UK1679666180]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

Pie definitely isn't a leadoff hitter.

 

I agree, but do you think Hendry does?

 

Hard for me to say but maybe for Hendry, he doesn't utilize his speed enough, has too much raw power, and strikeouts too much compared to someone like Patterson (even though his K rate is too high) long-term.

 

As I previously mentioned, I have my concerns about Patterson hitting leadoff, but I think he's more likely there than Pie.

Edited November 29, 2006 by UK

[CubinNY]

Put Lugo at shortstop, Soriano at second perhaps with Jones and DeRosa platooning in right field, Lee, Ramirez, Barrett and Murton obviously rounding things out, and that'd probably be the case. In other words, assuming Pie is just about too good for Triple-A, bringing him up sooner rather than later might potentially be a good idea.

 

Good work, as usual. I'd sign on to that.

 

However, the key is finding a suitable replacement at SS.

[Jazz]

Does pie project to be more of a power hitter later in his career, somewhere around his prime years? He seems like a Vlad Lite from his tools.

[CubinNY]

Does pie project to be more of a power hitter later in his career, somewhere around his prime years? He seems like a Vlad Lite from his tools.

 

Pie projects to be a middle of the order hitter.

 

Think a young Sammy Sosa, only better. . . If he reaches his potential.

[Jon]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

Pie definitely isn't a leadoff hitter.

Unlike that Alfonso Soriano guy.

[Derwood]

Dempster has a no-trade clause right?

Hendry seems to hand the things out like candy, but none of the usual contract sites say anything about a NTC for Dempster.

 

No one touches Hendry's candy. NO ONE

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

Pie definitely isn't a leadoff hitter.

Unlike that Alfonso Soriano guy.

 

I see you ditched the last name. Stalkers?

[Bull]

Dempster has a no-trade clause right?

Hendry seems to hand the things out like candy, but none of the usual contract sites say anything about a NTC for Dempster.

 

No one touches Hendry's candy. NO ONE

 

NTC=No Touch Candy?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Patterson BB/PA (roughly): 0.082

Pie BB/PA (roughly): 0.075

 

It's not like Patterson has a ton more discipline than Pie. and besides, he should be a lot more disciplined than Pie. He grew up playing in the US and played college ball and is two years older.

 

Pie has made strides. I think Patterson is much closer to his ceiling than Pie is right now - the question is will Pie get to his ceiling or not? I am not convinced Patterson is a better player right now but I think he is probably slightly less likely to collapse in the majors than Pie.

 

 

As far as I know I think both are potential leadoff hitters. Does this mean in a couple of years Soriano gets moved to 5 spot?

 

Pie definitely isn't a leadoff hitter.

Unlike that Alfonso Soriano guy.

 

I see you ditched the last name. Stalkers?

 

Ditched the middle initial too. Can't give out too much information.

[Jazz]

Requesting a split up of this thread since its turned into a Pie thread.

[Wilson A2000]

I thought Pie was moved to RF because of Pierre. Will he go to center now that Pierre is gone?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pie was never moved to RF.

[cbbryan]

My opinion on Pie is that he should be in CF this year if he has a good ST. I know he's probably not completely ready at the plate, but with Soriano and Murton on the corners, Pie could command alot of ground in CF.

 

He doesn't need to bat 4 or 5 in the line-up. If I was Hendry I'd make that public too. I would parallel it with what the Yanks did with Melky a couple of years back..................... we don't need the offense, just caught the ball. In Melky's case, he couldn't catch the ball, so they sent him back down. I think Pie could bat 7th and play CF. He'd be a huge asset and eventually I think his bat would come around.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I want Pie in CF IF an upgrade at SS is brought in. Or swinging a deal for Manny in which we keep Murton and Pie. Then move Soriano to 2B, and I wouldn't care if Larry Bowa was at SS.