C. Lee to Astros - 6 years/$100 M

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Think Neifi without the glove.

 

Thanks, but I try not to.

[Mephistopheles]

That is the most pointless stat I've ever seen in my life. Holy cow.

 

i think its sort of useless in its numbers but not its concept. its basically saying if say Albert Pujols was not on the Cardinals, how much production would they lose? If you dont look at WARP youd say X runs he created, but that's stupid because obviously they would have someone playing 1B and he would produce some runs.

 

And obviously a replacement ss and a replacement 1b are going to have different levels of offense, just by the nature of the dispersion of offense to key positions.

 

its no different than saying, "Sure the Braves lost a 20 game winner in Greg Maddux, but they replaced him with Kevin Millwood, so they didnt lose 20 games"

[NorthsideAvenger]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

no, but using the term y'all does.

 

I kid, I kid.

 

Ya right. You probably think I walk around barefoot and use corncobs and the sears catalog when I go out to my outhouse.

 

Well, you ARE an Ole Miss fan, so anything's possible..... 8)

[nilodnayr]

yay we got a speed threat who can't walk and gets thrown out an additional 20 or so time on the bases because of that speed. Man what a threat!

 

Soriano's speed is only a threat to our offense. Not to the opposing teams.

 

 

Because when Soriano steals a bag, it's really hurting our offense! :roll:

That's as silly a response as "Because when Soriano strikes out, it's really helping out offense! :roll: "

Neither of these statements have anything to do with what he posted. try harder.

 

He obviously didn't understand what I meant by that. I subscribe to the feeling having a nagging threat on the bases clogs a pitchers mind. If you or he do not agree with that, please don't mock with your holier than though attitute and talk to posters like they are dumb just because they beleive something other than what you THINK you know is true.

 

I used to subscribe to this theory as well. But check out these analyses courtesy of THT Part1 Part 2

[RynoRules]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

Wins Above Replacement Player

 

That is the most pointless stat I've ever seen in my life. Holy cow.

 

I am not a big fan of that one either.

[Rob]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

Wins Above Replacement Player

 

That is the most pointless stat I've ever seen in my life. Holy cow.

 

It has it's uses... but typically I only use it to compare ballplayers across eras.

 

WARP3 makes all the adjustments for ya, so you can see exactly how much somebody dominated their league.

 

Babe Ruth - 234.2

Barry Bonds - 233.1

Honus Wagner - 194.6

Joe Morgan - 168.0

Ron Santo - 116.7

Ryne Sandberg - 112.9

Mark Grace - 96.5

Joe Carter - 70.3

 

Using stuff like WARP to plan around when making a team is a bad idea... but it's not a horrible indicator of the past (and it's much easier than looking at long batting lines).

[Mizzou]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if baseball is even fun to some people.

[Rob]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if baseball is even fun to some people.

 

:roll:

 

Most everybody who loves baseball collected baseball cards for a while. They loved the game and baseball cards afforded them the greatest opportunity to get in to the game (as played at the professional level).

 

The people who like to play with stats are the ones that realized they printed stuff on the back of the cards too.

 

At any rate, if you see me in person at Wrigley, you'd know exactly how much a stats guy can enjoy the game.

[Guest]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if baseball is even fun to some people.

 

seriously, how can people be so close minded to everything and anything new?

[Guest]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

it doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.

[baseball7897]

yay we got a speed threat who can't walk and gets thrown out an additional 20 or so time on the bases because of that speed. Man what a threat!

 

Soriano's speed is only a threat to our offense. Not to the opposing teams.

 

 

Because when Soriano steals a bag, it's really hurting our offense! :roll:

That's as silly a response as "Because when Soriano strikes out, it's really helping out offense! :roll: "

Neither of these statements have anything to do with what he posted. try harder.

 

He obviously didn't understand what I meant by that. I subscribe to the feeling having a nagging threat on the bases clogs a pitchers mind. If you or he do not agree with that, please don't mock with your holier than though attitute and talk to posters like they are dumb just because they beleive something other than what you THINK you know is true.

 

That bolded part is very true.

[Sarcastic]

yay we got a speed threat who can't walk and gets thrown out an additional 20 or so time on the bases because of that speed. Man what a threat!

 

Soriano's speed is only a threat to our offense. Not to the opposing teams.

 

 

Because when Soriano steals a bag, it's really hurting our offense! :roll:

That's as silly a response as "Because when Soriano strikes out, it's really helping out offense! :roll: "

Neither of these statements have anything to do with what he posted. try harder.

 

He obviously didn't understand what I meant by that. I subscribe to the feeling having a nagging threat on the bases clogs a pitchers mind. If you or he do not agree with that, please don't mock with your holier than though attitute and talk to posters like they are dumb just because they beleive something other than what you THINK you know is true.

 

That bolded part is very true.

 

Check the links to a study on this earlier in the thread. Some pitchers may be distracted, but the difference isn't very significant.

[Mizzou]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if baseball is even fun to some people.

 

seriously, how can people be so close minded to everything and anything new?

It's not about being close minded. I can appreciate new age thinking on baseball, and on anything else. It's about people getting so wrapped up in different statistics that they focus more on a formula than they do on the actual game. It's just annoying, that's all.

[Mephistopheles]

it's november not july.

[baseball7897]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if baseball is even fun to some people.

 

seriously, how can people be so close minded to everything and anything new?

It's not about being close minded. I can appreciate new age thinking on baseball, and on anything else. It's about people getting so wrapped up in different statistics that they focus more on a formula than they do on the actual game. It's just annoying, that's all.

 

Post of the year.

[Mizzou]

it's november not july.

Thanks for the breaking news.

[Flames24Rulz]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

it doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.

 

How is he ignorant? Most of us, I'm assuming, have played baseball on a competitive level at least a couple of years in our lifetimes. I don't see how it's ignorant for some of us to not understand what exactly "WARP" is.

 

And what Mizzou said is right. It seems like people focus more on stats than they do the actual game. I have no problem with people using stats to make their judgment on a player, but I also think it's wrong for people who use those stats to flat out criticize people who don't use them. For example, by saying that they are "ignorant" and that "you don't know what you're talking about" when you don't use those stats.

[Warpticon]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

it doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.

 

How is he ignorant? Most of us, I'm assuming, have played baseball on a competitive level at least a couple of years in our lifetimes. I don't see how it's ignorant for some of us to not understand what exactly "WARP" is.

 

And what Mizzou said is right. It seems like people focus more on stats than they do the actual game. I have no problem with people using stats to make their judgment on a player, but I also think it's wrong for people who use those stats to flat out criticize people who don't use them. For example, by saying that they are "ignorant" and that "you don't know what you're talking about" when you don't use those stats.

 

Do you know what "ignorant" means? I'm discovering quickly that most people don't.

[Flames24Rulz]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

it doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.

 

How is he ignorant? Most of us, I'm assuming, have played baseball on a competitive level at least a couple of years in our lifetimes. I don't see how it's ignorant for some of us to not understand what exactly "WARP" is.

 

And what Mizzou said is right. It seems like people focus more on stats than they do the actual game. I have no problem with people using stats to make their judgment on a player, but I also think it's wrong for people who use those stats to flat out criticize people who don't use them. For example, by saying that they are "ignorant" and that "you don't know what you're talking about" when you don't use those stats.

 

Do you know what "ignorant" means? I'm discovering quickly that most people don't.

 

Yeah, I know what ignorant means. Here are some examples that I found on the web:

 

uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field; "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate"

 

uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication; "an ignorant man"; "nescient of contemporary literature"; "an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt for his unlettered companions"

 

Basically backing up my belief of what the word means. I still think that it's an attack, but I can see how you can say otherwise.

[CubColtPacer]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

it doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.

 

How is he ignorant? Most of us, I'm assuming, have played baseball on a competitive level at least a couple of years in our lifetimes. I don't see how it's ignorant for some of us to not understand what exactly "WARP" is.

 

And what Mizzou said is right. It seems like people focus more on stats than they do the actual game. I have no problem with people using stats to make their judgment on a player, but I also think it's wrong for people who use those stats to flat out criticize people who don't use them. For example, by saying that they are "ignorant" and that "you don't know what you're talking about" when you don't use those stats.

 

Do you know what "ignorant" means? I'm discovering quickly that most people don't.

 

Yeah, I know what ignorant means. Here are some examples that I found on the web:

 

uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field; "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate"

 

uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication; "an ignorant man"; "nescient of contemporary literature"; "an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt for his unlettered companions"

 

Basically backing up my belief of what the word means. I still think that it's an attack, but I can see how you can say otherwise.

 

I think that's the difference. The literal definition of the word ignorant is not a bad one. However, the connotations it has in today's society are so negative. Many words have extra connotations to them that are added even beyond the definition. To me as well, calling someone ignorant is a grave insult. However, I can perfectly understand as well that sometimes when people say that they don't mean it as an insult. However, the word is used that way so frequently though and that connotation is so firmly attached that it is hard to tell when it is being used without the insult attached.

[Mephistopheles]

arguing semantics is just stupid.

[nilodnayr]

in WARP the difference is about 15 runs over 162 games. in eqa the difference is about 12 runs over 162 games.

 

these are comparing average productin at both spots. I would assume that the stdev at lf is a lot higher than the stdev at 2b which makes the difference higher.

 

Does it make me stupid that I played the game for 16 years of my life and don't have a clue as to what the hell y'all are talking about? What the crap is WARP??

 

it doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.

 

How is he ignorant? Most of us, I'm assuming, have played baseball on a competitive level at least a couple of years in our lifetimes. I don't see how it's ignorant for some of us to not understand what exactly "WARP" is.

 

And what Mizzou said is right. It seems like people focus more on stats than they do the actual game. I have no problem with people using stats to make their judgment on a player, but I also think it's wrong for people who use those stats to flat out criticize people who don't use them. For example, by saying that they are "ignorant" and that "you don't know what you're talking about" when you don't use those stats.

 

Do you know what "ignorant" means? I'm discovering quickly that most people don't.

 

Yeah, I know what ignorant means. Here are some examples that I found on the web:

 

uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field; "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate"

 

uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication; "an ignorant man"; "nescient of contemporary literature"; "an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt for his unlettered companions"

 

Basically backing up my belief of what the word means. I still think that it's an attack, but I can see how you can say otherwise.

 

I think that's the difference. The literal definition of the word ignorant is not a bad one. However, the connotations it has in today's society are so negative. Many words have extra connotations to them that are added even beyond the definition. To me as well, calling someone ignorant is a grave insult. However, I can perfectly understand as well that sometimes when people say that they don't mean it as an insult. However, the word is used that way so frequently though and that connotation is so firmly attached that it is hard to tell when it is being used without the insult attached.

 

I like to say "you are ignorant, as in ingoring XYZ", that makes it clear that Im not saying you are stupid, I'm saying your just haven't taken something into consideration. Those who do not use stats, facts, etc. to evaluate players are being ignorant. Those who draft players without actually watching them play (IIR a player in Moneyball correctly) are being ignorant as well.

[CuseCubFan69]

arguing semantics is just stupid.

 

So you're anti-semantic?

[Guest]

it's november not july.

Thanks for the breaking news.

 

good job missing the point. what game are you watching anyway? If you don't enjoy the statistical evaluation why do you assume no one else does? If you don't want to read it, don't. I don't read anything baseball### posts because his opinion doesn't interest me. I suggest you and he do the same with posts you aren't interested in instead of retorting with sarcasm. Just because you don't want to follow logical and mathematical arguments doesn't mean you need to denigrate the posters or act as if you are sooo put out by having to read them.

[Guest]

obviously he is ignorant of WARP and other sabermetric statistics. not being able to understand them when explained would suggest stupidity - although I think laziness would be a more likely cause of not comprehending.