"I used to like guys who could catch the ball"

[Laura]

What a turnaround! It's not just the spending, it's the weird tire-screeching 180's that define Cubs fans' existence.

 

Just last off-season, we received the much-mocked quote, "I like guys who can catch the ball." Unfortunately, a lot of them couldn't hit ... or pitch ... or throw the ball.

 

This off-season? They're buying bats -- and HOPEFULLY pitching -- and sorting out the bodies and gloves later.

 

Soriano will take over the leadoff job but is not expected to start in center field. He's better suited to left or right, and all he asked was to be given one position. Can Jacque Jones play center field?

 

"It's way too early," Hendry said about the starting outfield. "It's Nov. 20, and you can't say this is the ballclub we'll line up with on Opening Day. A lot of things can happen before Christmas. A lot of things can happen before Opening Day. To start saying, 'This guy may move here, this guy may move there' is pure speculation."

 

Where's Soriano going to play ultimately? Who cares? Whatever. He's 40-40. Maybe 40-40-40. I can't remember. On to the next target.

 

I have to admit, I'm surprised.

 

They still don't have a clue about OBP, but baby steps ... baby steps ...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

They still don't have a clue about OBP, but baby steps ... baby steps ...

 

Bruce said during the organization meetings that Pierre's OBP was something that opened a lot of eyes. It would be nice to hear it in conjunction with Murton or when discussing the departure of Izturis.

 

But overall I, too, am very surprised at the turnaround to this point.

[UMFan83]

Even so, based on the acquisitions the Cubs have made so far, OBP doesn't seem to be very high on the priorities. Our OBP will still be in the bottom 5 in the NL next year.

[Jazz]

Even so, based on the acquisitions the Cubs have made so far, OBP doesn't seem to be very high on the priorities. Our OBP will still be in the bottom 5 in the NL next year.

 

With a healthy DLee, and replacing Neifi and Pierre with Derosa and Soriano, you are going to be disappointed in that projection.

[Laura]

Even so, based on the acquisitions the Cubs have made so far, OBP doesn't seem to be very high on the priorities. Our OBP will still be in the bottom 5 in the NL next year.

 

With a healthy DLee, and replacing Neifi and Pierre with Derosa and Soriano, you are going to be disappointed in that projection.

 

But they invested a boatload of cash -- the most money EVAH -- into Soriano, and he's not an OBP guy. He's not.

 

The Cubs like guys who hit the ball. Always have, always will Unless new ownership shocks us all.

 

Dusty's gone, this isn't about Dusty anymore.

 

If the Cubs take slugging % over fielding %, I'll be ok with that. Slug away.

 

If I had a choice of building a Wrigley Field team? Theoretically, OBP always wins out. But I wouldn't mind seeing what a lineup of sluggers could do, either.

[Guest]

what obp options are out there other than Drew?

 

Sadly, Izturis is actually a substantial upgrade over SS last year.

[Rob]

what obp options are out there other than Drew?

 

Sadly, Izturis is actually a substantial upgrade over SS last year.

 

Cedeno would be an upgrade over last year. There's no way he hits that badly again, and I have great faith that Gerald Perry could turn him into at least a league-average hitter... and he has the tools to be above average.

 

Izturis is a waste of 4 mil and a roster spot. I'd almost rather see if MLB would allow us to run 7 defenders out there without taking an automatic out when the SS spot should be batting than to stick him out on the field.

[David]

I think having Gerald Perry might also make a difference in the OBP deal. He is going to hammer a good approach into these guys' head, and the previous coaching staff preached a terrible overly aggressive appraoch.

 

I can't say it'll help each and every hitter (plus, some of them have a good approach already), but I definitely think it'll have an overall positive impact on the lineup.

[muntjack]

 

Cedeno would be an upgrade over last year. There's no way he hits that badly again,.....

 

Have you seen what he is doing in winter ball? It's even worse.

[CubColtPacer]

what obp options are out there other than Drew?

 

Sadly, Izturis is actually a substantial upgrade over SS last year.

 

Cedeno would be an upgrade over last year. There's no way he hits that badly again, and I have great faith that Gerald Perry could turn him into at least a league-average hitter... and he has the tools to be above average.

 

Izturis is a waste of 4 mil and a roster spot. I'd almost rather see if MLB would allow us to run 7 defenders out there without taking an automatic out when the SS spot should be batting than to stick him out on the field.

 

That's just a little bit of an overstatement isn't it? :D Seriously though, Izturis has shown he has the tools to become a league average hitter as well. He is not completely hopeless. His swing could lead itself to a large number of line drives, and his numbers were getting closer to league average before he got hurt. If he can stay healthy and works with the new hitting coach, I see just as much optimism that he can go to league average as Cedeno.

[soapy]

Well, Jim is saying the right things. Just get the best hitters you can, and sort out things like positions and batting order later, IMO. It's better then last year where he was hell bent on getting a "lead-off hitter".

 

I still don't think he's really changed his philosophy re: OBP. Maybe he's paying a little more attentions to it, I don't know, but the Soriano signing doesn't signify a change to me (other then $$). He's still the kind of player Hendry typically covets. Hendry likely sees a guy he considers toolsy, ahtletic, uses his legs, slugs, etc.

 

If he's not going to go after OBP, I'm happy to see him go after some SLG. At least it's something.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm not certain the Cubs are ignoring OBP. I know Soriano isn't great in that regards, but outside of Drew and Bonds, he's the best hitter on the market. Bruce gave us some insight in to why the Cubs wouldn't pursue Drew, so Hendry went out and signed the best hitter he could without getting into the issues surrounding Drew and Bonds.

 

DeRosa's career OBP is not good, but he did have a 350 OBP last season. Hendry's biggest problem may not be a lack of regard for OBP but a failure to understand "career years" and regression to the mean.

[Jon]

I'm not certain the Cubs are ignoring OBP. I know Soriano isn't great in that regards, but outside of Drew and Bonds, he's the best hitter on the market. Bruce gave us some insight in to why the Cubs wouldn't pursue Drew, so Hendry went out and signed the best hitter he could without getting into the issues surrounding Drew and Bonds.

 

DeRosa's career OBP is not good, but he did have a 350 OBP last season. Hendry's biggest problem may not be a lack of regard for OBP but a failure to understand "career years" and regression to the mean.

He doesn't understand the idea of career years, but look at the last five position starters that Hendry brought in: Soriano, DeRosa, Izturis, Jones, and Pierre.

 

Ouch.

[Danny82]

Even so, based on the acquisitions the Cubs have made so far, OBP doesn't seem to be very high on the priorities. Our OBP will still be in the bottom 5 in the NL next year.

 

With a healthy DLee, and replacing Neifi and Pierre with Derosa and Soriano, you are going to be disappointed in that projection.

Plus, I think that having Perry as a hitting coach will only help as well.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not certain the Cubs are ignoring OBP. I know Soriano isn't great in that regards, but outside of Drew and Bonds, he's the best hitter on the market. Bruce gave us some insight in to why the Cubs wouldn't pursue Drew, so Hendry went out and signed the best hitter he could without getting into the issues surrounding Drew and Bonds.

 

DeRosa's career OBP is not good, but he did have a 350 OBP last season. Hendry's biggest problem may not be a lack of regard for OBP but a failure to understand "career years" and regression to the mean.

 

He's still not addressing the walk, which is the core of his OBP problem. He doesn't respect the walk as an offensive weapon.

[Jazz]

I think what alot of people are forgetting is that Neifi effing perez consumed over 800 AB's in the last 2 years. Not to mention Juan Pierre, Cesar Izturis, Ronny Cedeno, Angel Pagan, Freddie Bynum, John Mabry took turns being absolutely dismal at their respective positions. Not ot mention the smorgasbord of AA pitching that got their turn starting with Maddux gone, Prior down, Wood down, etc..

 

Last year's team no doubt was badly put together, but don't take away from the fact that we had a lot of bad players eating up starts and innings. If you can get a couple quality bats, a couple quality arms, a well put together bench, and some lucky breaks as far as health goes (Prior and Wood returning?), we're world series contenders.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm not certain the Cubs are ignoring OBP. I know Soriano isn't great in that regards, but outside of Drew and Bonds, he's the best hitter on the market. Bruce gave us some insight in to why the Cubs wouldn't pursue Drew, so Hendry went out and signed the best hitter he could without getting into the issues surrounding Drew and Bonds.

 

DeRosa's career OBP is not good, but he did have a 350 OBP last season. Hendry's biggest problem may not be a lack of regard for OBP but a failure to understand "career years" and regression to the mean.

 

He's still not addressing the walk, which is the core of his OBP problem. He doesn't respect the walk as an offensive weapon.

 

Just making pitchers throw more pitches would be better. I understand that usually ties in with walks but if the Cubs just have better pitch recognition and a solid plan when they go up to the plate things will be better. How many pitches per AB did Soriano see compared to the average hitter?

[Laura]

I'm not certain the Cubs are ignoring OBP. I know Soriano isn't great in that regards, but outside of Drew and Bonds, he's the best hitter on the market. Bruce gave us some insight in to why the Cubs wouldn't pursue Drew, so Hendry went out and signed the best hitter he could without getting into the issues surrounding Drew and Bonds.

 

DeRosa's career OBP is not good, but he did have a 350 OBP last season. Hendry's biggest problem may not be a lack of regard for OBP but a failure to understand "career years" and regression to the mean.

 

He's still not addressing the walk, which is the core of his OBP problem. He doesn't respect the walk as an offensive weapon.

 

Agreed. The Cubs (Jim Hendry) still see the offensive problem as having to do with a failure to hit in the clutch / hit with RISP / as a straight hitting problem vs an on-base problem.

 

Someone linked to a Dan Fox chat at Baseball Prospectus the other day. He received a lot of Soriano questions and, while answering a question about the Cubs' philosophy on free agents, he referred to a joint Baseball Digest / Bleed Cubbie Blue Blog interview with Jim Hendry this past August. Fox then wrote:

 

But what was more interesting was an exchange that wasn't published. BDD asked Hendry if the Cubs will try and initiate a philosophical change in trying to get guys on base since they were 28th in the league in runs scored and 29th in OBP or perhaps sign some free agents who have historically had higher on base percentages (maybe Carlos Lee or J.D. Drew?) or even bring in a new hitting coach to alter the mindset of the approach at the plate. Hendry responded with the following:

 

"Well we'd like to get guys who can get on base, but our trouble was knocking guys in. We finished 4th or 5th in the league in hitting so we did manage to get guys on base. You can get all the guys on base that you want, but you have to knock them in."

 

You can read the full BP writeup at the link above.

 

The Cubs were last in the NL and 29th out of 30 MLB teams in OBP last year ... so, sorry, Jim, you didn't manage to get too many guys on base. It's true that the Cubs needed to get more slugging, and Soriano should certainly help in that respect. But the quote reflects a continued tendency to dismiss OBP as strictly a function of hitting and to downplay the importance of getting on base as a function of scoring.

 

His philosophy has not changed despite the Tribune opening up the wallet. They went out and signed Soriano and DeRosa because they hit, not because either has a demonstrated ability to get on base consistently. I'm not knocking either player ... but the OBP has to come from somewhere and Derrek Lee can't do it all by himself, as we saw in '05.

 

I'm glad that the Tribune Co. is ramping up spending. But if the Cubs are to ever be consistently good, there has to be a fundamental change in how the front office views OBP. They have to start finding guys who can get on base, whether those guys are obtained through free agency or obtained through drafting / signing players into the farm system. They're trying to outspend their mistakes right now, but that can't last forever.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm not certain the Cubs are ignoring OBP. I know Soriano isn't great in that regards, but outside of Drew and Bonds, he's the best hitter on the market. Bruce gave us some insight in to why the Cubs wouldn't pursue Drew, so Hendry went out and signed the best hitter he could without getting into the issues surrounding Drew and Bonds.

 

DeRosa's career OBP is not good, but he did have a 350 OBP last season. Hendry's biggest problem may not be a lack of regard for OBP but a failure to understand "career years" and regression to the mean.

 

He's still not addressing the walk, which is the core of his OBP problem. He doesn't respect the walk as an offensive weapon.

 

Agreed. The Cubs (Jim Hendry) still see the offensive problem as having to do with a failure to hit in the clutch / hit with RISP / as a straight hitting problem vs an on-base problem.

 

Someone linked to a Dan Fox chat at Baseball Prospectus the other day. He received a lot of Soriano questions and, while answering a question about the Cubs' philosophy on free agents, he referred to a joint Baseball Digest / Bleed Cubbie Blue Blog interview with Jim Hendry this past August. Fox then wrote:

 

But what was more interesting was an exchange that wasn't published. BDD asked Hendry if the Cubs will try and initiate a philosophical change in trying to get guys on base since they were 28th in the league in runs scored and 29th in OBP or perhaps sign some free agents who have historically had higher on base percentages (maybe Carlos Lee or J.D. Drew?) or even bring in a new hitting coach to alter the mindset of the approach at the plate. Hendry responded with the following:

 

"Well we'd like to get guys who can get on base, but our trouble was knocking guys in. We finished 4th or 5th in the league in hitting so we did manage to get guys on base. You can get all the guys on base that you want, but you have to knock them in."

 

You can read the full BP writeup at the link above.

 

The Cubs were last in the NL and 29th out of 30 MLB teams in OBP last year ... so, sorry, Jim, you didn't manage to get too many guys on base. It's true that the Cubs needed to get more slugging, and Soriano should certainly help in that respect. But the quote reflects a continued tendency to dismiss OBP as strictly a function of hitting and to downplay the importance of getting on base as a function of scoring.

 

His philosophy has not changed despite the Tribune opening up the wallet. They went out and signed Soriano and DeRosa because they hit, not because either has a demonstrated ability to get on base consistently. I'm not knocking either player ... but the OBP has to come from somewhere and Derrek Lee can't do it all by himself, as we saw in '05.

 

I'm glad that the Tribune Co. is ramping up spending. But if the Cubs are to ever be consistently good, there has to be a fundamental change in how the front office views OBP. They have to start finding guys who can get on base, whether those guys are obtained through free agency or obtained through drafting / signing players into the farm system. They're trying to outspend their mistakes right now, but that can't last forever.

 

Or Hendry gets a guy that hits and oh by the way knows how to get walks too. I'm also worries about Lee's health. What happens if he can't come back to his previous form? Also, his little girl is going to take a toll on him which is completely normal, I want a banger that can play the corner OF's that could play first too.

[Shavo]

I think Jim's comments are true.

[Laura]

I think Jim's comments are true.

 

That the Cubs don't have an OBP problem?

[Warpticon]

I think Jim's comments are true.

 

Well, they're not. The Cubs scored an almost identical percentage of baserunners to the rest of the league, elite teams included. There is very little variation from team to team. The Cubs scored fewer runs because they didn't have enough baserunners, plain and simple.

[Shavo]

I think Jim's comments are true.

 

Well, they're not. The Cubs scored an almost identical percentage of baserunners to the rest of the league, elite teams included. There is very little variation from team to team. The Cubs scored fewer runs because they didn't have enough baserunners, plain and simple.

 

I'm pretty sure in Jim's mind, he means no team is going to walk 7 times an inning and score 3 runs. Walks are great, but you have to execute and drive the runners in too.

 

I hope thats what he means ... :?

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Wow. This is why right now, I can stand very little with this orginization.

 

This is the guy in charge of who we sign? Thats his line of thinking?

[Warpticon]

I just want to say that I cannot read this thread title without hearing it in Jay-Z's voice.