"I used to like guys who could catch the ball"

[nilodnayr]

That's just a little bit of an overstatement isn't it? :D Seriously though, Izturis has shown he has the tools to become a league average hitter as well. He is not completely hopeless. His swing could lead itself to a large number of line drives, and his numbers were getting closer to league average before he got hurt. If he can stay healthy and works with the new hitting coach, I see just as much optimism that he can go to league average as Cedeno.

 

So you are using July 2004 as a basis for that claim? Neifi had better months in March/April and August in 2005? Does that mean he has shown the "tools" to become a league average hitter?

 

Izturis has over 2500 ML plate appearances to show that he is nowhere near a league average hitter.

 

Scroll down to OPS+

 

I think Rob is making the point that Cedeno is very young and more likely to improve and learn from Perry than Izturis. He also had a 2005 that was above league average in AAA.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The best hitting SS on the team is likely DeRosa. Cedeno hasn't shown enough for me to like him as a hitter. He's Shawon Dunston without any power. True, he has room to improve from craptacular to simply awful but making the jump from awful to marginally acceptable isn't likely.

 

Izturis is better than Cedeno, but he's somewhere between awful and craptacular with the bat as well.

 

DeRosa would be the best option at SS and he's a little better than marginally acceptable.

 

We just don't have many options at SS right now.

 

This is why I would like to get Lugo. You know we have problems at SS when I'm reminiscing about the Alex Gonzalez era.

[CuseCubFan69]

The best hitting SS on the team is likely DeRosa. Cedeno hasn't shown enough for me to like him as a hitter. He's Shawon Dunston without any power. True, he has room to improve from craptacular to simply awful but making the jump from awful to marginally acceptable isn't likely.

 

Izturis is better than Cedeno, but he's somewhere between awful and craptacular with the bat as well.

 

DeRosa would be the best option at SS and he's a little better than marginally acceptable.

 

We just don't have many options at SS right now.

 

This is why I would like to get Lugo. You know we have problems at SS when I'm reminiscing about the Alex Gonzalez era.

 

But what if the money allocated to 15 M, who do you go after Schimdt and get another cheap SS/go with one on the team or Lugo and a 7-9 Million dollar arm?

[CubColtPacer]

That's just a little bit of an overstatement isn't it? :D Seriously though, Izturis has shown he has the tools to become a league average hitter as well. He is not completely hopeless. His swing could lead itself to a large number of line drives, and his numbers were getting closer to league average before he got hurt. If he can stay healthy and works with the new hitting coach, I see just as much optimism that he can go to league average as Cedeno.

 

So you are using July 2004 as a basis for that claim? Neifi had better months in March/April and August in 2005? Does that mean he has shown the "tools" to become a league average hitter?

 

Izturis has over 2500 ML plate appearances to show that he is nowhere near a league average hitter.

 

Scroll down to OPS+

 

I think Rob is making the point that Cedeno is very young and more likely to improve and learn from Perry than Izturis. He also had a 2005 that was above league average in AAA.

 

I'm using 2004, where he almost was a league average shortstop, and then April/May of 2005, where he was well above average for those couple months, and then he got injured and his stats went way, way down. His injuries make it somewhat unlikely he returns to that, but he has the skills to make it back to league average for a shortstop.

[nilodnayr]

That's just a little bit of an overstatement isn't it? :D Seriously though, Izturis has shown he has the tools to become a league average hitter as well. He is not completely hopeless. His swing could lead itself to a large number of line drives, and his numbers were getting closer to league average before he got hurt. If he can stay healthy and works with the new hitting coach, I see just as much optimism that he can go to league average as Cedeno.

 

So you are using July 2004 as a basis for that claim? Neifi had better months in March/April and August in 2005? Does that mean he has shown the "tools" to become a league average hitter?

 

Izturis has over 2500 ML plate appearances to show that he is nowhere near a league average hitter.

 

Scroll down to OPS+

 

I think Rob is making the point that Cedeno is very young and more likely to improve and learn from Perry than Izturis. He also had a 2005 that was above league average in AAA.

 

I'm using 2004, where he almost was a league average shortstop, and then April/May of 2005, where he was well above average for those couple months, and then he got injured and his stats went way, way down. His injuries make it somewhat unlikely he returns to that, but he has the skills to make it back to league average for a shortstop.

 

 

Ahhhh, you said league average hitter. League average hitter and league average shortstop are two completely different things. Still though, in 2004, Izturis only had two months with OPS > 700. His April/May of 2005 were good, but still thats 4 months out of 6 years in the majors.

[Rob]

what obp options are out there other than Drew?

 

Sadly, Izturis is actually a substantial upgrade over SS last year.

 

Cedeno would be an upgrade over last year. There's no way he hits that badly again, and I have great faith that Gerald Perry could turn him into at least a league-average hitter... and he has the tools to be above average.

 

Izturis is a waste of 4 mil and a roster spot. I'd almost rather see if MLB would allow us to run 7 defenders out there without taking an automatic out when the SS spot should be batting than to stick him out on the field.

 

That's just a little bit of an overstatement isn't it? :D Seriously though, Izturis has shown he has the tools to become a league average hitter as well. He is not completely hopeless. His swing could lead itself to a large number of line drives, and his numbers were getting closer to league average before he got hurt. If he can stay healthy and works with the new hitting coach, I see just as much optimism that he can go to league average as Cedeno.

 

It's most certainly not an overstatement. I said "I'd almost rather see..." :lol:

 

Everybody has a career year. I really don't think Izturis is even as good of a hitter as he was in 04 and the beginning of 05. I recognize that I could certainly be wrong... but I doubt it.

 

At any rate, Cedeno is going to be doing everything he can to try and hold onto his MLB gig. If that results in him working with Perry a lot, Cedeno's combination of age and work ethic plus natural tools could result in a slightly above league average bat which would be much more sustainable than when Izturis fluked out for his big season.

[nilodnayr]

The best hitting SS on the team is likely DeRosa. Cedeno hasn't shown enough for me to like him as a hitter. He's Shawon Dunston without any power. True, he has room to improve from craptacular to simply awful but making the jump from awful to marginally acceptable isn't likely.

 

Izturis is better than Cedeno, but he's somewhere between awful and craptacular with the bat as well.

 

DeRosa would be the best option at SS and he's a little better than marginally acceptable.

 

We just don't have many options at SS right now.

 

This is why I would like to get Lugo. You know we have problems at SS when I'm reminiscing about the Alex Gonzalez era.

 

We have Theriot too.

 

But I agree, Lugo is by far and away the best SS available this year and next year via FA. A smart GM would look down the line to next year's FA market and see that even overpaying for Lugo a little is a smart move.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The best hitting SS on the team is likely DeRosa. Cedeno hasn't shown enough for me to like him as a hitter. He's Shawon Dunston without any power. True, he has room to improve from craptacular to simply awful but making the jump from awful to marginally acceptable isn't likely.

 

Izturis is better than Cedeno, but he's somewhere between awful and craptacular with the bat as well.

 

DeRosa would be the best option at SS and he's a little better than marginally acceptable.

 

We just don't have many options at SS right now.

 

This is why I would like to get Lugo. You know we have problems at SS when I'm reminiscing about the Alex Gonzalez era.

 

We have Theriot too.

 

But I agree, Lugo is by far and away the best SS available this year and next year via FA. A smart GM would look down the line to next year's FA market and see that even overpaying for Lugo a little is a smart move.

 

You are right, we do have Theriot. I haven't a large enough sample size to judge Theriot by. He may be what he appeared to be or he may be a lot worse. I wouldn't want to count on him in 2007.

[BigbadB]

You are right, we do have Theriot. I haven't a large enough sample size to judge Theriot by. He may be what he appeared to be or he may be a lot worse. I wouldn't want to count on him in 2007.

 

Which makes Theriot an awesome bench guy. He's super cheap, and could potentially step into the everyday job and provide even better production than the guy he's replacing.

 

Lugo and DeRosa with Theriot backing both of them up. Izturis is traded to anyone looking for a guy who can catch the ball.