Cliff Floyd?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why are people not talking about Floyd taking ABs away from Murton?

Because my head is buried in the sand so I don't have to think about it.

 

I think the answer to the question is, it's necessary to get more out of the offense. Just like last year, I'd be fine with Murton starting 162 games and getting 750 PA, but the lineup around him has to be good enough to absorb less than ideal production from him. I don't see him putting up a .300/.400/.550 line, so we aren't talking about taking away at bats from a star. If Murton puts up a respectable 800 OPS against RHP, I would not be the least bit upset. But if you can get a hitter capable of putting up a 900 OPS in 200-300 of those PA, then you are making your team better. That would artificially inflate Murton's total line (because it would be more "against LHP" heavy), while at the same time providing a great line by the replacement player. I'm not concerned with Murton suffering to a lack of playing time, he'd still get a lot of at bats, and he doesn't seem to me to be the type of player that would sulk, or get lost with less playing time.

 

Ideally, they'd have better production elsewhere, so there would be no thought of sitting Murton from time-to-time. However, this team is still in need of more offense, and if they can't get it by acquiring ARod, Cabrera or Tejada, they have to get it somewhere.

 

Problem is, Murton was better against RHP than Floyd was last year.

[XZero771679666304]

Why are people not talking about Floyd taking ABs away from Murton?

Because my head is buried in the sand so I don't have to think about it.

 

I think the answer to the question is, it's necessary to get more out of the offense. Just like last year, I'd be fine with Murton starting 162 games and getting 750 PA, but the lineup around him has to be good enough to absorb less than ideal production from him. I don't see him putting up a .300/.400/.550 line, so we aren't talking about taking away at bats from a star. If Murton puts up a respectable 800 OPS against RHP, I would not be the least bit upset. But if you can get a hitter capable of putting up a 900 OPS in 200-300 of those PA, then you are making your team better. That would artificially inflate Murton's total line (because it would be more "against LHP" heavy), while at the same time providing a great line by the replacement player. I'm not concerned with Murton suffering to a lack of playing time, he'd still get a lot of at bats, and he doesn't seem to me to be the type of player that would sulk, or get lost with less playing time.

 

Ideally, they'd have better production elsewhere, so there would be no thought of sitting Murton from time-to-time. However, this team is still in need of more offense, and if they can't get it by acquiring ARod, Cabrera or Tejada, they have to get it somewhere.

 

Problem is, Murton was better against RHP than Floyd was last year.

 

He was pretty well gimped out last year. Let's try his 3 year splits vs. RHP:

 

.277 .369 .498 .867

[goonys evil twin]

You heard it here first...Dope and Harvey will combine for at least 50 HR this year in AA.

 

Yep, I'm drunk on kool-aid!

 

The thing is, they could easily account for 50 HR and still have terrible production lines. Harvey hit 24 in a season when his line was just .257/.302/.484 and he played just 117 games. That is similar to Dope's career averages. If they are putting up an OPS around 780, with extremely low OBP's, I would not be the least bit excited about their status as prospects, even if they each hit 25 HR. 22/23 year olds playing 1b/RF don't really threaten greatness with that kind of production.

 

I have to assume that any chance of superstardom is long past for each of these guys. The true greats just don't start their pro careers like these two have. Even just being above average would be a stretch, when you compare their minor league production to some of the good, but not great young major leaguers. The question is whether or not they can still be even average major leaguers. And putting up .300-.320 OBPs in the minors, with SLG's in the .450 range, as 1b/RF types, would not seem to indicate they can.

[JeffH]

You heard it here first...Dope and Harvey will combine for at least 50 HR this year in AA.

 

I hadn't heard that they're being converted into pitchers...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Problem is, Murton was better against RHP than Floyd was last year.

 

He was pretty well gimped out last year. Let's try his 3 year splits vs. RHP:

 

.277 .369 .498 .867

 

Naturally, Floyd has been much better in the past against RHP. Thing is, Floyd's 34 this year so his injuries aren't something to be brushed aside as no longer an issue. More importantly, the whole idea of platooning Murton is to guarantee good/better than Murton production against RHP. If we're going to gamble on Floyd staying healthy and returning to form, then why not take a similar(better?) gamble on Murton, who hit .338/.398/.530 against RHP after the ASG this year?

[XZero771679666304]

Problem is, Murton was better against RHP than Floyd was last year.

 

He was pretty well gimped out last year. Let's try his 3 year splits vs. RHP:

 

.277 .369 .498 .867

 

Naturally, Floyd has been much better in the past against RHP. Thing is, Floyd's 34 this year so his injuries aren't something to be brushed aside as no longer an issue. More importantly, the whole idea of platooning Murton is to guarantee good/better than Murton production against RHP. If we're going to gamble on Floyd staying healthy and returning to form, then why not take a similar(better?) gamble on Murton, who hit .338/.398/.530 against RHP after the ASG this year?

 

I'm not advocating Floyd, and I personally agree with your point about Murton. But since they requested his medial record, I'm assuming the Cubs aren't going to sign him if he's in the same condition he was last year.

 

If he's any measure healthier than he was last year, expecting Floyd to surpass Murton's overall production vs. RHP is pretty reasonable.

[goonys evil twin]

Problem is, Murton was better against RHP than Floyd was last year.

 

He was pretty well gimped out last year. Let's try his 3 year splits vs. RHP:

 

.277 .369 .498 .867

 

Naturally, Floyd has been much better in the past against RHP. Thing is, Floyd's 34 this year so his injuries aren't something to be brushed aside as no longer an issue. More importantly, the whole idea of platooning Murton is to guarantee good/better than Murton production against RHP. If we're going to gamble on Floyd staying healthy and returning to form, then why not take a similar(better?) gamble on Murton, who hit .338/.398/.530 against RHP after the ASG this year?

 

The gamble would be on Floyd being somewhat healthy enough for part-time work. If he's banged up enough to keep his production against RHP low, then I think the obvious solution would be to then stick with Murton full-time. I don't see a gimpy non-productive Floyd taking much time from Murton.

 

So, you sign him (or maybe Trot Nixon), and then only play him if he's healthy and producing against RHP.

[Balsa]

I'm just not sure I like Cliff Floyd. I mean, 3 out of his last 4 years he's failed to get 400 ABs. And he's 34.

 

It just seems like signing him would be a bad idea.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm just not sure I like Cliff Floyd. I mean, 3 out of his last 4 years he's failed to get 400 ABs. And he's 34.

 

It just seems like signing him would be a bad idea.

 

Signing him to be a full-time player would clearly be a bad idea. Signing him to be a part-time contributor and potential RHP killer could be a very smart gamble.

[XZero771679666304]

I'm just not sure I like Cliff Floyd. I mean, 3 out of his last 4 years he's failed to get 400 ABs. And he's 34.

 

It just seems like signing him would be a bad idea.

 

Signing him to be a full-time player would clearly be a bad idea. Signing him to be a part-time contributor and potential RHP killer could be a very smart gamble.

 

Agreed. Having on the team could be very good, provided he doesn't steal too many AB's from Matt.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm just not sure I like Cliff Floyd. I mean, 3 out of his last 4 years he's failed to get 400 ABs. And he's 34.

 

It just seems like signing him would be a bad idea.

 

Signing him to be a full-time player would clearly be a bad idea. Signing him to be a part-time contributor and potential RHP killer could be a very smart gamble.

 

What a difference a year makes. I wouldn't mind seeing Floyd get 250-400 AB's but what worries me is that he can't play right and if Soriano gets moved to CF who goes to RF if Jones is gone?

[Backtobanks]

I'm just not sure I like Cliff Floyd. I mean, 3 out of his last 4 years he's failed to get 400 ABs. And he's 34.

 

It just seems like signing him would be a bad idea.

 

Signing him to be a full-time player would clearly be a bad idea. Signing him to be a part-time contributor and potential RHP killer could be a very smart gamble.

 

All of this discussion about Floyd is great, but I'm wondering what kind of contract he would get. He's used to pretty big money and I'm hoping the Cubs don't have to break the bank since Ward serves close to the same purpose.

[BigbadB]

Sounds like he would come to the Cubs for cheaper, but after last year he shouldn't be expensive at all. He's nothing more than a platoon guy at this point as well.

 

I'd offer 2m base with incentives that could reach 5-6m.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm just not sure I like Cliff Floyd. I mean, 3 out of his last 4 years he's failed to get 400 ABs. And he's 34.

 

It just seems like signing him would be a bad idea.

 

Signing him to be a full-time player would clearly be a bad idea. Signing him to be a part-time contributor and potential RHP killer could be a very smart gamble.

 

All of this discussion about Floyd is great, but I'm wondering what kind of contract he would get. He's used to pretty big money and I'm hoping the Cubs don't have to break the bank since Ward serves close to the same purpose.

 

It's not like he's used to $10+ million deals. He's been making about $6.5m a year for several years now. And that last deal was signed after back-to-back seasons of 145+ games, 600+ PA, and tremendous production. And even back then he was used to the idea of taking a slight paycut based on the threat of health problems. Now, coming off a disastrous season, with only one 145/600 season in the past four, I think he's going to be open to making less. Ideally he makes no more than $2m, but even $4-5m for one year is acceptable, because he at least gives you a chance for fantastic production. Unlike RF, with Soriano, where even if he produces at his best, he won't come close to justifying an $18m salary. LF, if Murton and Floyd combine to the top of their range, it would be a tremendous bargain at $5-6 million.

[thedaymen]

Wow, a couple of months ago you would put your hand over your eyes and ignore my sarcastic posts about how the Cubs were going to go after Floyd and Trachsel, not it seems like you've talked yourself in to Floyd and Marquis.

 

I guess compared to the other signings this winter, they don't seem so bad?

[goonys evil twin]

Wow, a couple of months ago you would put your hand over your eyes and ignore my sarcastic posts about how the Cubs were going to go after Floyd and Trachsel, not it seems like you've talked yourself in to Floyd and Marquis.

 

I guess compared to the other signings this winter, they don't seem so bad?

 

I believe the original discussion was with Floyd replacing Murton. And no, I haven't talked myself into Marquis. I still would not have done what they did.

 

I am completely against a 3/30 deal for Floyd. But one year at $2-3m is a no-brainer to me, and one year with the potential for $4-5m is certainly worth consideration.

 

Plus, it looks like the Cubs are willing to spend a lot more than I thought they were going to when the idea was first brought up.

[Guest]

I still don't like the idea of Floyd. I'd rather just play Murton full-time in LF. I think Jacque needs a platoon-mate much more than Murton does. I'd rather invest resources there.

[LuckyPup]

I still don't like the idea of Floyd. I'd rather just play Murton full-time in LF. I think Jacque needs a platoon-mate much more than Murton does. I'd rather invest resources there.

*cough* craig wilson*cough*

[goonys evil twin]

I still don't like the idea of Floyd. I'd rather just play Murton full-time in LF. I think Jacque needs a platoon-mate much more than Murton does. I'd rather invest resources there.

*cough* craig wilson*cough*

 

Considering how unlikely it is that Soriano is going to play CF, I don't see it happening. Piniella has more or less ruled out Soriano in center. So any Jones platoon partner will likely have to be a RH capable of playing CF.

 

I say Jason Michaels fits the bill.

[Guest]

I still don't like the idea of Floyd. I'd rather just play Murton full-time in LF. I think Jacque needs a platoon-mate much more than Murton does. I'd rather invest resources there.

*cough* craig wilson*cough*

That would only work if Soriano were in CF.

 

-----------------

 

Which brings up a point...

 

If management were willing to live with his defense there, putting Soriano at 2B and trading for a CF or RF would still make the most sense for this team.

 

At second base, Soriano is on a clear HOF track as a hitter. You could probably still trade for a pretty decent RF at this point or sign a Nixon/Wilson platoon or something along those lines.

 

------------------

 

Back to reality....

 

Is Cruz Jr. still out there? He'd be ideal for our 5th OF to back up Jacque in CF and hit against lefties.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is Cruz Jr. still out there? He'd be ideal for our 5th OF to back up Jacque in CF and hit against lefties.

 

The Padres signed him for 650k last week.

[Guest]

Is Cruz Jr. still out there? He'd be ideal for our 5th OF to back up Jacque in CF and hit against lefties.

 

The Padres signed him for 650k last week.

Rats.

 

Preston Wilson it is!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is Cruz Jr. still out there? He'd be ideal for our 5th OF to back up Jacque in CF and hit against lefties.

 

The Padres signed him for 650k last week.

Rats.

 

Preston Wilson it is!

 

I was just about to throw his name out there.

 

Brady Clark might be available too, but he doesn't have much of a platoon split.

 

Wilkerson has better career numbers v. LH than RH.....

[Guest]

That would give us a current bench of:

 

Blanco - catcher

Ward - Lefty stick, Corner OF/1B

Wilson - Righty stick, All OF

Theriot - IF / pinch runner

Derosa - super utility

 

Now all we need is a quality second baseman. :D

 

j/k - we still need one more infield backup.

[goonys evil twin]

That would give us a current bench of:

 

Blanco - catcher

Ward - Lefty stick, Corner OF/1B

Wilson - Righty stick, All OF

Theriot - IF / pinch runner

Derosa - super utility

 

Now all we need is a quality second baseman. :D

 

j/k - we still need one more infield backup.

 

If you can't get a really good stick, Cedeno should have this job. AAA will do him no good, and the typical cheap backup MI won't be any better.