College Football - Week of 11/18

[CubColtPacer]

Quinn should win the Heisman.

Before the OSU/UM game I agreed with you.

 

Quinn's stats are still better. More yards, more TD's, same # of INT's and Smith doesn't have the benefit of a bunch of rushing yards and TD's like he did last year. Quinn's been the better QB this year.

 

And I'm not exactly one to hand out compliments to ND or their players very often.

 

It's not a stats race---never has been. Quinn had a prime shot to show he was the Heisman favorite against Michigan in his own building, and they got slaughtered. Quinn looked overmatched at times.

 

Smith has faced down two #2 challengers and looked real good against both of them.

 

Smith is the clear Heisman winner IMO. I doubt the voting will be particularly close.

 

Smith had 2 good games and a bunch of eh/crap games. Quinn had one bad game and a bunch of solid/good games. Do you know how many games Smith has been held under 200 yards passing? 6. Quinn? 0.

 

Want to talk about who is more important to his team? It's Quinn and it's not even close. Quinn has to play well because ND's defense isn't that good. OSU has one of the top defenses in the nation. Coming into today, Notre Dame's defense has allowed 67.5 more ypg than OSU. Offensively, OSU has a far better running game than ND and is averaging 65.5 more rushing ypg than ND.

 

Ohio State has a better team than ND and Smith doesn't have to do as much to keep his team in the game. Quinn is a better player, has better stats, and is more important to his team than Quinn is. To me, that means the Heisman winner should be from South Bend.

 

And, as with many of my Brady Quinn posts, and to annoy ndistops, I have one more thing to say. Quinn is going to look good in Silver and Black next year.

 

Strength. of. Schedule.

 

Which in every SOS ranking (in all the computers for example) favors Notre Dame-so your point is what?

 

Then replace "schedule" with "defenses faced".

 

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

[Warpticon]

I seriously think Smith wins the Heisman then falls into obscurity a la Gino Torretta, Charlie Ward, etc. Despite Vick and Young in the NFL, I just don't see the league heading towards a short/mobile/elusive QB style. Brady Quinn is built like a NFL QB and will fit into more teams' systems

 

I don't see how short/mobile/elusive are in any way related.

 

Smith is a smart, polished pocket passer who is very accurate and can throw a lot of the NFL throws. He also can run. If anything limits his NFL productivity, it's likely his size, and possibly ability to throw the deep ball.

[Soul]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

[Andy]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

Minor quibble: If USC wins today, they'll likely be No. 2 next week in the BCS.

[Derwood]

I seriously think Smith wins the Heisman then falls into obscurity a la Gino Torretta, Charlie Ward, etc. Despite Vick and Young in the NFL, I just don't see the league heading towards a short/mobile/elusive QB style. Brady Quinn is built like a NFL QB and will fit into more teams' systems

 

I don't see how short/mobile/elusive are in any way related.

 

Smith is a smart, polished pocket passer who is very accurate and can throw a lot of the NFL throws. He also can run. If anything limits his NFL productivity, it's likely his size, and possibly ability to throw the deep ball.

 

I don't agree on arm strength. He has thrown some ropes down field, sometimes off his back foot

[CubColtPacer]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those.

 

BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also.

[Soul]

I'm going to make a point of avoiding Chevy next time I buy a car. Christ, enough is enough.

[jjgman21]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

if he lights up USC next week, I think he's in the picture but still loses out. I kind of agree with Soul on how these things work. there are a group of guys that are considered candidates, and alot of times it comes down to how those guys do in the spotlight. but keep in mind, Quinn has a chance to be the one with the last hurrah. alot of it will depend on how well the ND-USC commentators do hyping it as the game goes along.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I seriously think Smith wins the Heisman then falls into obscurity a la Gino Torretta, Charlie Ward, etc. Despite Vick and Young in the NFL, I just don't see the league heading towards a short/mobile/elusive QB style. Brady Quinn is built like a NFL QB and will fit into more teams' systems

I agree. Smith's pretty small, not all that tall, and not fast enough IMO to be a Vick/Young style QB in the NFL. It'll be interesting to see if he becomes a WR or something else.

 

Right, like Michael Robinson on San Fran. He's mostly a 3rd down running back guy who can catch screens, etc.

 

Smith is a much better pocket passer than Robinson. Not a good comparison, imo.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Keep shooting yourself in the foot, Cal.

[Soul]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those.

 

BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also.

 

Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again.

 

I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell.

 

Tennessee fans still burn up over that one.

[jjgman21]

why isn't that considered a lateral? so what if he didn't intend on throwing the pass backwards, the fact is the pass went backwards.

[CubColtPacer]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those.

 

BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also.

 

Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again.

 

I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell.

 

Tennessee fans still burn up over that one.

 

I know-I heard the complaining about that one just today from a Tennessee fan :D

[Andy]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those.

 

BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also.

 

Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again.

 

I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell.

 

Tennessee fans still burn up over that one.

I remember in 1999, Champ Bailey did everything Woodson did and statistically did it a lot better (many more PR yards, more INTs, more receptions).

[CaliforniaRaisin]

No backward pass on first down?

[Jon]

why isn't that considered a lateral? so what if he didn't intend on throwing the pass backwards, the fact is the pass went backwards.

I thought it was more obvious live, but after rewatching the play, the ball went directly sideways. That was a fumble.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

why isn't that considered a lateral? so what if he didn't intend on throwing the pass backwards, the fact is the pass went backwards.

 

I agree.

[Soul]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those.

 

BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also.

 

Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again.

 

I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell.

 

Tennessee fans still burn up over that one.

 

I know-I heard the complaining about that one just today from a Tennessee fan :D

 

And of course the much better pro player, Peyton by light years.

[Jazz]

Science Damnt Cal....

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Sigh.

[jaydee]

What good defenses did Ohio State play that ND didn't? Remember that ND played Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State. Here's the rest of Ohio State's opponents: Northern Illinois, Texas, Cincy, Iowa, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern.

 

Who of those opponents are better defenses then teams like Georgia Tech, UCLA, or upcoming USC? I can only see 2 or 3 of those teams that even have decent to good defenses.

 

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever.

 

I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both.

 

Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

 

Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those.

 

BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also.

 

Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again.

 

I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell.

 

Tennessee fans still burn up over that one.

I remember in 1999, Champ Bailey did everything Woodson did and statistically did it a lot better (many more PR yards, more INTs, more receptions).

 

That year I think Woodson picked off one of every three passes thrown at his receiver.

[Andy]

Paul Maguire's an idiot, but he is absolutely right on. If that ball's on the ground just fall on it unless no one is anywhere near you.

[Jazz]

Great play, but what a horrible time to use that eye in the sky camera angle.

[Jon]

First and goal Cal!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Yay DeSean Jackson!

 

Of course USC has a different story on the DSJ recruiting...but they're trying to save face.