Once Again Pitching Rules

[b_wiggy_66]

I know that there are a lot of people on here that want to spend the big money on a hitter for our lineup. After watching the Cards pitching shut down the Tigers in this series it shows once again that pitching wins in the postseason. We need to make pitching our number one priority this offseason. 2 starters is a must, but even 3 is what we really need. Bring in some reliable, durable starters Jim.

[Mark Priors Calves]

the cardinals pitching was pretty mediocore during the season and they pitched well in the postseason.

[Jon]

They were ranked 16th in the majors in ERA.

 

Of course, their offense was ranked 14th in the majors in runs and OPS. Hendry will just have to find the most average players available. That means they'll still need to improve at shortstop.

 

And then trade Barrett for a catcher with a sub-.600 OPS.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Hendry will search for pitchers who can throw to first and third base.

[abuck1220]

I know that there are a lot of people on here that want to spend the big money on a hitter for our lineup. After watching the Cards pitching shut down the Tigers in this series it shows once again that pitching wins in the postseason. We need to make pitching our number one priority this offseason. 2 starters is a must, but even 3 is what we really need. Bring in some reliable, durable starters Jim.

 

i think it shows that the tigers' hitting sucks (b/c the cardinals' pitching isn't very good). therefore, instead of saying the cardinals' pitching won, i'm gonna say the tigers' offense lost.

 

more bats, please!

[bhogg]

throws from the pitcher's mound to 1st base are way overrated.

[Outshined_One]

The Tigers led the majors in ERA.

[rocket]

so should the cubs spend money on a crappy pitcher and hope he turns into gold in the post season? that's essentially what happened to the cards.

[b_wiggy_66]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

[baseball7897]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

 

Agreed.

[Jon]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

The 2005 White Sox (3rd in the majors in ERA and 1st in the AL), 2004 Red Sox (11th in the majors and 3rd in the AL), 2003 Marlins (10th in the majors), 2002 Angels (4th in the majors and 2nd in the AL), and 2001 Diamondback (3rd in the majors) all had clearly better staffs than the Cardinals. Only the 2000 Yankees were close, but they were still one of the better pitching staffs in the AL.

 

The top 8 pitching staffs in baseball this year were, in order, Detroit, San Diego, Minnesota, LAA, Houston, NYM, Oakland, and LAD. I love pitching, but it's pretty clear that the best staff didn't come out on top.

[abuck1220]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

 

so then the tigers should have won because they had the best pitching in baseball.

[soccer10k]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

 

Including Weaver and Suppan completely negates your argument.

[Backtobanks]

I know that there are a lot of people on here that want to spend the big money on a hitter for our lineup. After watching the Cards pitching shut down the Tigers in this series it shows once again that pitching wins in the postseason. We need to make pitching our number one priority this offseason. 2 starters is a must, but even 3 is what we really need. Bring in some reliable, durable starters Jim.

 

I don't care how many pitchers you have, you can't win with the Cubs' offense. I agree that the Cubs need a #2 starter and possibly a #4, but they also need at least one impact bat in addition to a platoon player for Jones (if he stays) in addition to re-signing ARam. What the WS shows me is that you need to improve enough to win the division and after that it's just a matter of who gets hot at the right time. Playing in cold weather sites obviously helps the pitching (except for throwing to 1B), but a WS in a warmer climate might have been a pitcher's nightmare.

[abuck1220]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

 

look at the last few w.s. champs:

 

2000: nyy (posada, jeter, williams)

2001: ariz (gonzalez, sanders, grace)

2002: anaheim (glaus, salmon, anderson)

2003: florida (lee, lowell, pudge, castillo)

2004: boston (ortiz, manny, damon)

2005: chicago (dye, konerko, iguchi)

2006: st louis (pujols, edmonds, rolen)

 

hitting wins in the postseason, plain and simple.

[WrigleyField 22]

All you can do is put together a team that is good enough to make it to the playoffs. That means you need hitters and pitchers. Once you are there, whoever is hottest is going to win. Put yourself in a position to make the playoffs year in and year out and your chances of winning a World Series increases. Putting the the best players out there also increases your chances of winning as the good players are likely to get hot.

[soccer10k]

I know that there are a lot of people on here that want to spend the big money on a hitter for our lineup. After watching the Cards pitching shut down the Tigers in this series it shows once again that pitching wins in the postseason. We need to make pitching our number one priority this offseason. 2 starters is a must, but even 3 is what we really need. Bring in some reliable, durable starters Jim.

 

Hey, David Eckstein also won the MVP of the World Series. Maybe we should sign a bunch of guys with lines of .292/.350/.344/.694 (Eckstein in 2006). Then, as long as we're at it, we should sign a guy who posted a ERA of 5.76, an ERA+ of 76, and a 1.51 WHIP. We'll win the World Series for sure.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I know that there are a lot of people on here that want to spend the big money on a hitter for our lineup. After watching the Cards pitching shut down the Tigers in this series it shows once again that pitching wins in the postseason. We need to make pitching our number one priority this offseason. 2 starters is a must, but even 3 is what we really need. Bring in some reliable, durable starters Jim.

 

Hey, David Eckstein also won the MVP of the World Series. Maybe we should sign a bunch of guys with lines of .292/.350/.344/.694 (Eckstein in 2006). Then, as long as we're at it, we should sign a guy who posted a ERA of 5.76, an ERA+ of 76, and a 1.51 WHIP. We'll win the World Series for sure.

 

Hey now, I think Jon got it right. Go for the catcher with the sub-.600 OPS. You know, the catcher who gets more hits in the playoffs than in any full month other than June.

[soccer10k]

I know that there are a lot of people on here that want to spend the big money on a hitter for our lineup. After watching the Cards pitching shut down the Tigers in this series it shows once again that pitching wins in the postseason. We need to make pitching our number one priority this offseason. 2 starters is a must, but even 3 is what we really need. Bring in some reliable, durable starters Jim.

 

Hey, David Eckstein also won the MVP of the World Series. Maybe we should sign a bunch of guys with lines of .292/.350/.344/.694 (Eckstein in 2006). Then, as long as we're at it, we should sign a guy who posted a ERA of 5.76, an ERA+ of 76, and a 1.51 WHIP. We'll win the World Series for sure.

 

Hey now, I think Jon got it right. Go for the catcher with the sub-.600 OPS. You know, the catcher who gets more hits in the playoffs than in any full month other than June.

 

Where do I sign? Let's get him too.

[b_wiggy_66]

Look at the last few W.S. champs:

 

2000-New York(Pettite, Clemens, El Duque, Rivera)

2001-Arizona(Unit and Schilling)

2002-Anaheim(Lackey, Washburn, K-rod)

2003-Florida(Beckett, Pavano, Urbina)

2004-Boston(Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke)

2005-Chicago(every starter, Jenks)

2006-St.Louis(Carpenter, Weaver, Suppan, Wainright)

 

 

Pitching wins in the postseason plain and simple.

The 2005 White Sox (3rd in the majors in ERA and 1st in the AL), 2004 Red Sox (11th in the majors and 3rd in the AL), 2003 Marlins (10th in the majors), 2002 Angels (4th in the majors and 2nd in the AL), and 2001 Diamondback (3rd in the majors) all had clearly better staffs than the Cardinals. Only the 2000 Yankees were close, but they were still one of the better pitching staffs in the AL.

 

The top 8 pitching staffs in baseball this year were, in order, Detroit, San Diego, Minnesota, LAA, Houston, NYM, Oakland, and LAD. I love pitching, but it's pretty clear that the best staff didn't come out on top.

 

Look, you listed 9 teams that were the top pitching teams in baseball and 6 of them were in the playoffs. Now how can any of you argue that pitching doesn't increase your odds of getting to the postseason. Now I'm not saying that offense is not important because obviously it is, but if you have good enough pitching 3-4 runs a day will be enough. It is who gets hot at the right time, but I believe your odds of winning are much better with great pitching than hitting. Good pitching shuts down good hitting.

[abuck1220]

Good pitching shuts down good hitting.

 

detroit's good pitching didn't shut down st. louis' good hitting.

[b_wiggy_66]

Good pitching shuts down good hitting.

 

detroit's good pitching didn't shut down st. louis' good hitting.

 

Well game 1 Verlander gave up 6 runs and they lost. Game 2 Rogers pitched good and they won. Game 3 they gave up 3 runs and Carp gave up 0 and the Cards won, game 4 they got some bad breaks gave up 3 runs and lost. And game 5 again bad breaks and gave up 2 runs and lost. So they pitched OK in the W.S., but the cards pitched better and guess what, the better pitching won.

[treebird]

Good pitching shuts down good hitting.

 

detroit's good pitching didn't shut down st. louis' good hitting.

 

Well game 1 Verlander gave up 6 runs and they lost. Game 2 Rogers pitched good and they won. Game 3 they gave up 3 runs and Carp gave up 0 and the Cards won, game 4 they got some bad breaks gave up 3 runs and lost. And game 5 again bad breaks and gave up 2 runs and lost. So they pitched OK in the W.S., but the cards pitched better and guess what, the better pitching won.

 

maybe the cardinals offense just scored all those runs? how can you say this wasnt just good hitting beat good pitching?

[cjbucks]

If the Cardinals keep this same "great" pitching staff in 2007 they will probably be lucky to win 83 games again.

[abuck1220]

Good pitching shuts down good hitting.

 

detroit's good pitching didn't shut down st. louis' good hitting.

 

Well game 1 Verlander gave up 6 runs and they lost. Game 2 Rogers pitched good and they won. Game 3 they gave up 3 runs and Carp gave up 0 and the Cards won, game 4 they got some bad breaks gave up 3 runs and lost. And game 5 again bad breaks and gave up 2 runs and lost. So they pitched OK in the W.S., but the cards pitched better and guess what, the better pitching won.

 

ugh...this is such after-the-fact analysis that i can't believe you don't see the flaw in your logic.

 

let's take last night's game -- verlander vs. weaver. verlander is clearly the better pitcher, so going in you (using your pitching beats hitting philosophy) would say the tigers should win since they have the better pitcher. then weaver outpitches verlander and you say 'well, good pitching beats good hitting' and weaver pitched better than verlander.

 

i don't see how anyone can subscribe to this idiotic 'good pitching beats good hitting' mantra and then cite the 2006 world series, in which the team with the team with the BEST PITCHING IN ALL OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL got beat by a team with the 16TH BEST PITCHING IN ALL OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.