Mark Prior

[B]

What happened to him. I seriously can't remember the last time I've heard about him. What is wrong with him? Will he ever be back? Did he retire?

[Soriano12]

I think he needs to realize that as a MLB pitcher, you are not going

to feel 100% all of the time. You will have aches and pains that you have to pitch through.

 

That being said, no way can you get rid of him now. I'm hoping he

can get on a hot streak again(like 2003) and increase his trade value for someone like Miguel Cabrera or Carl Crawford.

[MPrior]

That being said, no way can you get rid of him now. I'm hoping he

can get on a hot streak again(like 2003) and increase his trade value for someone like Miguel Cabrera or Carl Crawford.

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

As far as Prior goes, this (the original post) is a very good question: does anyone know anything about his status? Also, I know it's a bad idea to count on him for next year, but what do people think his chances of a return to form are?

[Soriano12]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

[kroth1342]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

 

I'll take the .998 OPS OF rather than the .840 OF who steals bases by a huge margin - and to think Crawford isn't that far off, you must not be able to pass a urine test.

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan = Dusty Baker stan - "love that speed dude"

[CUBZ99]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

 

I'll take the .998 OPS OF rather than the .840 OF who steals bases by a huge margin - and to think Crawford isn't that far off, you must not be able to pass a urine test.

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan = Dusty Baker stan - "love that speed dude"

 

The Cubs had two OF's this year that put up similar OPS numbers to Crawford. I don't understand why everyone is so impressed with him. Sure his numbers are decent and he is young, but he is not even in Cabrera's league.

[Soriano12]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

 

I'll take the .998 OPS OF rather than the .840 OF who steals bases by a huge margin - and to think Crawford isn't that far off, you must not be able to pass a urine test.

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan = Dusty Baker stan - "love that speed dude"

 

Its unfortunate you can't debate your point without personal insults.

 

How old are you?

[kroth1342]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

 

I'll take the .998 OPS OF rather than the .840 OF who steals bases by a huge margin - and to think Crawford isn't that far off, you must not be able to pass a urine test.

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan = Dusty Baker stan - "love that speed dude"

 

Its unfortunate you can't debate your point without personal insults.

 

How old are you?

 

22

[Balsa]

I feel obligated to chime in here that Cabrera is FAR better than Crawford will ever be.

[UMFan83]

I don't want to hear about the Justin Verlander of 2003 any time soon.

[Sammy Sofa]

Cabrera and Crawford don't even exist in the same dimension together.

[Sarcastic]

Moving back to the actual topic (we don't need ANOTHER thread about how speed isn't nearly as valuable as conventional wisdom says) I think Mark Prior will be central to the Cubs next year, one way or another. I don't think they can possibly contend if the players they already have don't produce more (excepting a major payroll raise, which seems unlikely). Most of that improvement is going to have to come from Prior, since he is the player on this team with the most potential, and generally sucked worse than almost anyone else this season.

 

Whether or not he'll come back successfully is a guesssing game. Who can say? Some people have already writen him off, and will tell you every chance they get, but I'm not ready to say that yet. He is still young, and if he is done, then so are the Cubs, for the next few seasons at least.

[Guest]

or one about prior being a wuss. I'm sure he didn't feel any aches or pains all of 2003. honestly, why is it so hard to accept that Prior has actually been hurt?

[TB_11]

or one about prior being a wuss. I'm sure he didn't feel any aches or pains all of 2003. honestly, why is it so hard to accept that Prior has actually been hurt?

 

I don't agree with this, but if it's hard to accept it's because:

 

- He supposedly has perfect mechanics

- His 2006 injuries had nothing to do with freak accidents like taking a line drive off his arm

- He's supposedly a perfectionist, and feels uncomfortable pitching through pain

[Guest]

or one about prior being a wuss. I'm sure he didn't feel any aches or pains all of 2003. honestly, why is it so hard to accept that Prior has actually been hurt?

 

I don't agree with this, but if it's hard to accept it's because:

 

- He supposedly has perfect mechanics

- His 2006 injuries had nothing to do with freak accidents like taking a line drive off his arm

- He's supposedly a perfectionist, and feels uncomfortable pitching through pain

 

Its ridiculous. Pitching is a completely unnatural motion. Pitchers on all teams get hurt all the time. It doesn't matter if their mechanics are perfect. He shouldn't be pitching through pain. Anyone who thinks he never got sore after the abuse he took in 2003 is completely clueless. He's hurt! Deal with it.

[NewUserName]

I was thinking about this the other day and doing some what ifs

 

What if Prior wins 15 games next year with a ERA below 4

 

What if DLee returns to his 2005 form

 

What if Murton moves his OPS up to 850

 

What if JJones gets a good platoon partner

 

What if Marshall and Hill work out as 4th and 5th starters.

 

What if Pierre gets his OBP up to 350

 

Just of these 6 things happen I think the Cubs could be in contention for this lousy division without doing anything else. Now if I was going to rank these in the order in which I think they are going to happen I would put Prior 6th.

[UMFan83]

I was thinking about this the other day and doing some what ifs

 

What if Prior wins 15 games next year with a ERA below 4

 

chances of happening: 6/10

 

What if DLee returns to his 2005 form

 

chances of happening: 7.5/10

 

What if Murton moves his OPS up to 850

 

chances of happening 8/10

 

What if JJones gets a good platoon partner

 

chances of happening 4/10

 

What if Marshall and Hill work out as 4th and 5th starters.

 

chances of happening 6/10

 

What if Pierre gets his OBP up to 350

 

chances of happening 2/10 (partly because hes not coming back)

 

Just of these 6 things happen I think the Cubs could be in contention for this lousy division without doing anything else. Now if I was going to rank these in the order in which I think they are going to happen I would put Prior 6th.

 

chances of them all happening 1/10

[CubmanPi]

I was thinking about this the other day and doing some what ifs

 

What if Prior wins 15 games next year with a ERA below 4

 

chances of happening: 6/10

 

What if DLee returns to his 2005 form

 

chances of happening: 7.5/10

 

What if Murton moves his OPS up to 850

 

chances of happening 8/10

 

What if JJones gets a good platoon partner

 

chances of happening 4/10

 

What if Marshall and Hill work out as 4th and 5th starters.

 

chances of happening 6/10

 

What if Pierre gets his OBP up to 350

 

chances of happening 2/10 (partly because hes not coming back)

 

Just of these 6 things happen I think the Cubs could be in contention for this lousy division without doing anything else. Now if I was going to rank these in the order in which I think they are going to happen I would put Prior 6th.

 

chances of them all happening 1/10

:-s

 

Did you forget a few zeros?

 

EDIT: I think the odds in the previous post, particularly in the Prior, Jones, Marshall/Hill sections are heavily optimistic as well.

[NewUserName]

I think Hill and Marshall becoming quality 4th and 5th starters isnt a stretch. Or even if we throw in Guzman and Wade Miller as possible 4th and 5th starters, that means 2 out of 4 need to do slightly below league average to be good 4th and 5th starter. I would take my chances on that happening and getting a quality #2 and 3 starter than hoping Prior will be one of them. Than you could have Hill, Marshall, Guzman, Prior battling for 4 and 5.

 

About JJones getting a platoon partner it depends on the manager. It doesnt take a genius to look at a stat sheet and say he shouldnt play against lefties.

 

I dont think all of my ifs are going to happen either, I was just kind of thinking that with a little luck we good be good again next season. I think this is how miracle teams happen. They play in a weak division and a lot of the ifs work out for them. Heck what if Izturis stays healthy and hits .300, What if ARam stays and hits 50 hrs, what if we get Soriano and he repeats his performance from this season.

 

The downside to all this is winning the NL central next season isnt going to be a great feat. I would hate to see the Cubs win in next season and start thinking all these ifs are going to work out again in 2008.

[CubmanPi]

It doesnt take a genius to look at a stat sheet and say he shouldnt play against lefties.

Now THERE is a phrase loaded with a season's worth of implications and management-bashing threads. This made me laugh.

 

I guess it all boils down to your outlook. Maybe this is what McDonough meant when he said this is a very exciting time for Cubs fans - it's the first time since late April we've had any substantial reasons to be optimistic. Yes, there are plenty of what ifs, and if it all worked out, it would most certainly be a miracle team, because no one in their right mind can honestly say they saw it coming (Hendry would NOT count as being in his right mind in this case). You're just choosing a mentality that is way more upbeat than I can possibly spare this organization right now.

 

My cynicism is hardly original or new, especially around here, so I'll just say that I really hope you're right. It's a long off-season. That's where I'm hoping to see some miracles.

[soccer10k]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

 

I'll take the .998 OPS OF rather than the .840 OF who steals bases by a huge margin - and to think Crawford isn't that far off, you must not be able to pass a urine test.

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan = Dusty Baker stan - "love that speed dude"

 

Its unfortunate you can't debate your point without personal insults.

 

How old are you?

 

It's unfortunate that you think Carl Crawford is a comparable player to Miguel Cabrera.

[Pinktermite]

Listing all these what ifs...that's the problem the Cubs have always had...what if Kerry gets healthy...what if Mark P isn't injured...what if Nomar comes back...what if DLee doesn't get hurt...blah blah blah.

 

If the Cubs don't spend like drunken sailors and get any combo of Soriano, CLee, Zito, Schmidt, and/or trade for AJones, or anyone else who can get on base, then we are doomed to lurk around these message boards whining that Jim Hendry is doing the same crap all over again.

 

Larry Dierker is right, this isn't rocket science. Spending money and NOT losing your own free agents and hiring a manager with a new outlook is the only thing that even gives a shred of a chance...and it's a small shred at that...

[beowulf28]

 

No offense to Carl Crawford, but he does not belong in the same category as Miguel Cabrera.

 

 

Apples and Oranges in terms of the type of player.

 

Crawford may not have as high as slugging% as Carbera, but is Carbera

gonna swipe 50+ bases and play gold glove defense.

 

I'd still take Cabera first, but Crawford isn't that far off.

 

I'll take the .998 OPS OF rather than the .840 OF who steals bases by a huge margin - and to think Crawford isn't that far off, you must not be able to pass a urine test.

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan = Dusty Baker stan - "love that speed dude"

 

Its unfortunate you can't debate your point without personal insults.

 

How old are you?

 

It's unfortunate that you think Carl Crawford is a comparable player to Miguel Cabrera.

 

Why is it hard to think that Carl Crawford, at 25, can't raise his OBP? It would seem that he's more obtainable than Cabrera, since the Marlins haven't even mentioned that he's available, so getting him is a pipe dream. You'd probably have to give up much more for him than for Crawford, and with Crawford's speed and defense, getting his OBP higher would make him more valuable.

[Outshined_One]

Why is it hard to think that Carl Crawford, at 25, can't raise his OBP? It would seem that he's more obtainable than Cabrera, since the Marlins haven't even mentioned that he's available, so getting him is a pipe dream. You'd probably have to give up much more for him than for Crawford, and with Crawford's speed and defense, getting his OBP higher would make him more valuable.

 

Actually, I remember around the trade deadline that the Marlins would consider moving Willis and Cabrera this offseason in an effort to trim payroll (!!!!!) since both were due pay raises and will be free agents in the near future.

 

I'm unsure what to think about acquiring either Cabrera or Crawford at this point. The Devil Rays don't seem to have eased off from their strangely high demands for certain players since they brought in their new GM. They're going to try and screw other teams out of young starting pitching in exchange for him; that's a foregone conclusion. They'll want a comparable package to Nolasco-Mitre-Pinto, which I would not be willing to give up for Crawford.

 

I have no faith whatsoever in this organization to instill plate discipline in hitters. Crawford had a Pierre-like .43 IsoD last season; I don't think that would improve if he came here. We saw what happened with Pierre this season; guys who have an OBP heavily based on AVG will be prone to really ugly slumps since everything is based on making good contact with the ball and having the defense screw up. Thankfully, unlike Pierre, Crawford has reasonable power for a CF'er and might not be thrust into the leadoff spot.

 

With Cabrera, the guy is one of the best young hitters of this generation. Yes, he'll drive us insane in the OF, but his tremendous combination of power and patience would be a boon to this lineup. I don't think there are that many guys who could single-handedly turn around this lineup...however, I think Cabrera is one of those guys. He's already a masher and will only get better with time.

 

I'd rather overpay for Cabrera than overpay for Crawford.

[beowulf28]

Why is it hard to think that Carl Crawford, at 25, can't raise his OBP? It would seem that he's more obtainable than Cabrera, since the Marlins haven't even mentioned that he's available, so getting him is a pipe dream. You'd probably have to give up much more for him than for Crawford, and with Crawford's speed and defense, getting his OBP higher would make him more valuable.

 

Actually, I remember around the trade deadline that the Marlins would consider moving Willis and Cabrera this offseason in an effort to trim payroll (!!!!!) since both were due pay raises and will be free agents in the near future.

 

I'm unsure what to think about acquiring either Cabrera or Crawford at this point. The Devil Rays don't seem to have eased off from their strangely high demands for certain players since they brought in their new GM. They're going to try and screw other teams out of young starting pitching in exchange for him; that's a foregone conclusion. They'll want a comparable package to Nolasco-Mitre-Pinto, which I would not be willing to give up for Crawford.

 

I have no faith whatsoever in this organization to instill plate discipline in hitters. Crawford had a Pierre-like .43 IsoD last season; I don't think that would improve if he came here. We saw what happened with Pierre this season; guys who have an OBP heavily based on AVG will be prone to really ugly slumps since everything is based on making good contact with the ball and having the defense screw up. Thankfully, unlike Pierre, Crawford has reasonable power for a CF'er and might not be thrust into the leadoff spot.

 

With Cabrera, the guy is one of the best young hitters of this generation. Yes, he'll drive us insane in the OF, but his tremendous combination of power and patience would be a boon to this lineup. I don't think there are that many guys who could single-handedly turn around this lineup...however, I think Cabrera is one of those guys. He's already a masher and will only get better with time.

 

I'd rather overpay for Cabrera than overpay for Crawford.

 

Good point. I agree that our organization seems to be incapable of helping hitters improve. Cabrera would probably be a better choice.