White Sox

[goonys evil twin]

Ozzie and Kenny got so full of themselves...Karma is a bitch.

 

I don't understand what they did wrong?

 

The pitching staff went south. Who knew that Buerhle would crumble?

 

.

 

They didn't do anything wrong, per se, because they are still going to finished the season over .500 and prolly close to 90+ wins. The problem is....the White Sox as a team didn't have their "hunger" or "urgency to win" they had last yr. Last yr they a sense to need the win in the worst of ways, this yr, winning was AS important. That was their problem.

 

I don't think that's true.

 

But it'll probably make for some good columns.

[jmajew]

I hope for my sake they sign Juan Pierre long term.

 

I can't believe they'll be able to get too much for Garcia because it seems to be a terribly kept secret that he's on his way out. It seems to be banking on a lot to rely on Dye and Thome to repeat their years next year. I think I'd personally go to Baltimore with Garland for Tejada, and see what spare parts I'd need to add. Uribe was a great defender, but from what I've heard he's gone down considerably this year, and he has an OBP worse than Neifi's worst year. With regards to the OF, that's a tough call, Guillen seems to love Sweeney, but I don't think he's a starting ML OF. At least not yet. I'd prioritize SS first, then a bullpen arm, then a LF. I'm not sure what's out there for OFs, but that might be what you could get in return for the SP you trade, nothing special, maybe a Jacque Jones type.

 

Jacque Jones for Freddy Garcia sounds good to me. He may not be a stud but he can be penciled in for 200+ innings and in the 4 spot.

[UK1679666180]

Despite their recent struggles, I have enjoyed watching the Sox this year. Unfort., they've been playing tight for quite some time.

[HoopsCubs]

i think Garcia has a bigger contract so money wise i would prefer Vasquez, but we might have to give up less in talent to get Garcia-either would be a solid addition to another FA starter, Z, Hill, Prior,etc

 

Actually the Sox owe both guys $10M in 2007. Vazquez will actually earn $12.5M, but the D-Backs are picking up $2.5M.

 

I would take Javier over Freddy.

[WindyCity]

I mentioned this in another thread months ago, but other than figuring out their pitching situation, I think the White Sox are one of the few teams that has the right prospects to make a serious run at acquiring Miguel Cabrera this off-season (and he's about to get very expensive for Florida). I think the Marlins would need/want prospects that are close to the majors at 3B, CF, and pitching and the Sox could offer a package of Fields, Anderson, and McCarthy. Too much? Not for Miggy IMO....

 

That said, I pray it doesn't happen - I really, really want Miggy on the Cubs!

[baseball7897]

This will be a very interesting offseason on the South Side. Williams has expressed many times that the team needs to get younger. I believe the window of opportunity is closed. Thome is close to done, Dye had a career year, Konerko will decline, Podsednik will be gone, so will Uribe, Garcia, hopefully Contreras, and maybe Iguchi.

 

I would build around Garland, McCarthy, Vazquez, and possibly Buehrle. If Buehrle is the key piece in a deal for a promising SS prospect, then I would trade him. But his value is really low right now.

 

What do you think will happen? I asked on here because the Cards, Brewers, and Astros will probably all express interest in Garcia or any of the other starters.

 

Thome is done? He's got a 1000+ OPS and will probably have played in 140+ games.

 

Quick White Sox solution for next year. Keep Anderson in CF and let Sweeney play LF and put Fields and 3b. You then trade Crede and Garcia. Maybe workout a three team deal with the Orioles that lands the Sox Tejada. Or trade both of them separately and get teh best defensive shortstop available...Hopefully for the Cubs sake an Izturis and Will Ohman deal could net the Cubs Garcia.

 

NO to Garica. His velocity has been up and down all year. This could be a sign of him having shoulder problems.

[RationalSoxFan]

Yes he may be hurt, but you're giving up a LOOGY and a mediocre, overpaid middle infielder for him.

[UK1679666180]

He looked good the 4 innings I watched tonight. He located well, his change isn't as good as it was last year and his FB is obviously down but he has good movement on it and his splitter was effective. Except for the leadoff BB (why Granderson didn't run, even with his poor baserunning) Garcia pitched smart and effective.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Let's trade them Jones and Izturis for Dye. :P

[Rob]

NO to Garica. His velocity has been up and down all year. This could be a sign of him having shoulder problems.

 

Holy Frijoles!

 

I think that's the first thing we've agreed upon so far.

[soccer10k]

Yes he may be hurt, but you're giving up a LOOGY and a mediocre, overpaid middle infielder for him.

 

And we would be getting an even more overpaid, potentially injured starting pitcher in return. No thanks.

[RationalSoxFan]

Yes he may be hurt, but you're giving up a LOOGY and a mediocre, overpaid middle infielder for him.

 

And we would be getting an even more overpaid, potentially injured starting pitcher in return. No thanks.

I'm sorry, I would never accept a return like that for Garcia. Izturis has no value, and Ohman is a dime a dozen. I didn't suggest it, just saying.

[Soriano12]

Did anyone here Lawrence Holmes on the score today about 6:20-6:30

 

He was whining like a little girl about the Sox. Pathetic.

 

seriously, they got a ring last year, were in it pretty much all of this year, and have an agressive GM that will Fix the rotation and part of the lineup.

 

The Sox will be back.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

[goonys evil twin]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

Yeah, good point. I keep hearing about how it was a lack of hunger, or they choked, or were a disappointment. People weren't thinking of them as a perennial winner last season. It wasn't until after the WS that people decided, "hey, why don't I pick the Sox as my favorite in 2006", because most baseball experts are lazy, unimaginative and always late to the party. On the last day of the regular season last year, if somebody told them the Sox would win 90 this year, they'd have said, "sounds about right, they probably played over their head a bit this year, and will come back down a little next year, but still be good." But they get hot in the playoffs and all of a sudden they can't be stopped in 2006. Too many people just don't understand how foolish it is to allow small stretches of games to determine your predictions for future trends.

[Backtobanks]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

Why should everyone expect other teams to stand still. That's like saying if the Cards, Reds, Astros, Brewers, and Pirates stink up the joint, the Cubs might make the playoffs. The Sox had a chance to make a deal at midseason and chose not to.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

Why should everyone expect other teams to stand still. That's like saying if the Cards, Reds, Astros, Brewers, and Pirates stink up the joint, the Cubs might make the playoffs. The Sox had a chance to make a deal at midseason and chose not to.

 

I said the biggest difference, not the only one. Could they have made a move, sure. Would it have improved them, I don't know. The Cards didn't make any moves and they are in first while the Reds did and they faded away.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

no, the biggest difference is that their pitching went sour this season. if their pitching was up to last year's par, they'd be coasting into the playoffs easily, despite the emergence of detroit, who'd be battling it out with minnesota for the wild card.

 

kenny williams did a great job in the offseason, he even shored up the staff with vazquez as a 5th starter. the rotation just didn't perform.

[goonys evil twin]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

no, the biggest difference is that their pitching went sour this season. if their pitching was up to last year's par, they'd be coasting into the playoffs easily, despite the emergence of detroit, who'd be battling it out with minnesota for the wild card.

 

kenny williams did a great job in the offseason, he even shored up the staff with vazquez as a 5th starter. the rotation just didn't perform.

 

But that's only because last years results skewed expectations. They pitched over their heads in 2005, and were bound to decline in 2006.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

no, the biggest difference is that their pitching went sour this season. if their pitching was up to last year's par, they'd be coasting into the playoffs easily, despite the emergence of detroit, who'd be battling it out with minnesota for the wild card.

 

kenny williams did a great job in the offseason, he even shored up the staff with vazquez as a 5th starter. the rotation just didn't perform.

 

But that's only because last years results skewed expectations. They pitched over their heads in 2005, and were bound to decline in 2006.

 

but you can't really demote anyone because you expect them to decline, can you? especially after a monster year.

[goonys evil twin]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

no, the biggest difference is that their pitching went sour this season. if their pitching was up to last year's par, they'd be coasting into the playoffs easily, despite the emergence of detroit, who'd be battling it out with minnesota for the wild card.

 

kenny williams did a great job in the offseason, he even shored up the staff with vazquez as a 5th starter. the rotation just didn't perform.

 

But that's only because last years results skewed expectations. They pitched over their heads in 2005, and were bound to decline in 2006.

 

but you can't really demote anyone because you expect them to decline, can you? especially after a monster year.

 

No, you probably can't. But I wasn't really saying they should have. KW put together a 90+ win team, that's his job, to give his team the chance. There's no surefire way to build a winner (excepting the Yankees spend way more than anybody else plan), but GM's have to play the odds.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think the biggest difference with the White Sox is that Detroit had a good year. If they stink up the joint like they did last year the Sox are the Wild Card team.

 

no, the biggest difference is that their pitching went sour this season. if their pitching was up to last year's par, they'd be coasting into the playoffs easily, despite the emergence of detroit, who'd be battling it out with minnesota for the wild card.

 

kenny williams did a great job in the offseason, he even shored up the staff with vazquez as a 5th starter. the rotation just didn't perform.

 

But that's only because last years results skewed expectations. They pitched over their heads in 2005, and were bound to decline in 2006.

 

but you can't really demote anyone because you expect them to decline, can you? especially after a monster year.

 

No, you probably can't. But I wasn't really saying they should have. KW put together a 90+ win team, that's his job, to give his team the chance. There's no surefire way to build a winner (excepting the Yankees spend way more than anybody else plan), but GM's have to play the odds.

 

what i see you saying is that KW should have expected his starters to decline, but i don't see what you would have had him do.

 

he did a good job in the offseason, especially compared to what hendry did. if williams's only problem is that he didn't expect his starters to decline, he's still light years ahead of our guy.

[goonys evil twin]

what i see you saying is that KW should have expected his starters to decline, but i don't see what you would have had him do.

 

I'm not saying he should have done anything in particular. I was questioning the "pitchers didn't perform" line. And I do question adding another innings eating mediocre pitcher to a staff full of them, but if I was a WS fan, I wouldn't have much to complain about. Maybe he should have tried trading off 2 pitchers for 1 great one, and filling in with another mediocre guy elsewhere. But it worked last year, I see why he'd want to stick with them this year, it wasn't bad. He should have expected a decline though. And the team was very close to the playoffs even with that decline (and an overly dramatic decline from Buerhle that wasn't expected - although I've been thinking that guy would have troubles for years now, don't know why, just never liked him). In reality, they probably win a couple more games if Buerhle didn't absolutely suck, though that might not have been enough.

[jtownie]

what i see you saying is that KW should have expected his starters to decline, but i don't see what you would have had him do.

 

I'm not saying he should have done anything in particular. I was questioning the "pitchers didn't perform" line. And I do question adding another innings eating mediocre pitcher to a staff full of them, but if I was a WS fan, I wouldn't have much to complain about. Maybe he should have tried trading off 2 pitchers for 1 great one, and filling in with another mediocre guy elsewhere. But it worked last year, I see why he'd want to stick with them this year, it wasn't bad. He should have expected a decline though. And the team was very close to the playoffs even with that decline (and an overly dramatic decline from Buerhle that wasn't expected - although I've been thinking that guy would have troubles for years now, don't know why, just never liked him). In reality, they probably win a couple more games if Buerhle didn't absolutely suck, though that might not have been enough.

 

Just my opinion but I always thought that KW made a point to upgrade the offense with the idea that the pitchers would probably decline somewhat. The idea being that an improved offense would make up the difference.

[SouthSideRyan]

Did anyone here Lawrence Holmes on the score today about 6:20-6:30

 

He was whining like a little girl about the Sox. Pathetic.

 

seriously, they got a ring last year, were in it pretty much all of this year, and have an agressive GM that will Fix the rotation and part of the lineup.

 

The Sox will be back.

 

Maybe Lawrence can just root for whoever wins the world series this year. He was a Cubs fan last time I listened to the Score. I have no respect for those people.