Dunn Talk in Cincinnati

[rocket]

Dunn has been up for 6 seasons now. Here are his stats during that time

01 (only 244 at bats)-.262/.371/.578

02-.249/.400/.454

03-.215/.354/.465

04- .266/.388/.569

05- .247/.387/.540

06- .238/.368/.512

 

If he were 26 and had shown signs of improving steadily during his career, I would say he is more likely to keep improving. He is certainly young enough to improve, but his stats have been falling instead the last couple years (without any injury or something like that to explain it).

 

Dunn played the last season with a broken right hand.

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0128reds.html

 

Don't know about this year though.

[CubColtPacer]

Dunn has been up for 6 seasons now. Here are his stats during that time

01 (only 244 at bats)-.262/.371/.578

02-.249/.400/.454

03-.215/.354/.465

04- .266/.388/.569

05- .247/.387/.540

06- .238/.368/.512

 

If he were 26 and had shown signs of improving steadily during his career, I would say he is more likely to keep improving. He is certainly young enough to improve, but his stats have been falling instead the last couple years (without any injury or something like that to explain it).

 

Dunn played the last season with a broken right hand.

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0128reds.html

 

Don't know about this year though.

 

That link didn't work, but thanks for the heads up on the injury.

[baseball7897]

I like Dunn, but I dont like the fact he is a liability in the field, and he K's way too much. Cubs already have a couple of guys who will strikeout over a 100 times in a season(lee and Jones). Strikeouts are wasted AB's to me. Having 3 guys in your lineup who will K is not something I would like in a lineup. Put the ball in play and make something happen.

 

And that's pretty ridiculous. This isn't little league or high school ball for that matter. Even the most defensively challenged major leaguer makes most of the plays. When the ball is put in play, more times than not, an out is recorded.

 

The put it in play mantra is great in little league. I hate 12 year olds that strike out because with that age, 75% of the time when the ball is in play, something good does happen for the team at bat. Not so in the majors.

 

I want production. Dunn makes fewer outs than most other options for LF. When he does make an out, it's often with the K. Big deal because he is still making fewer outs. Outs are the most valuable commodity in the game. The players who make fewer outs (OBP) and make the most of their contact (SLG) are the most valuable (OPS).

 

Ok, you obviosuly didnt understand what I was saying. And there you go again, jumping to conclusions. When you put the ball in play you are putting pressure on the defense. Putting the ball in play means hits, doubles, triples, HR. I dont know why you brought up little league ball? I rather have guys who put the ball in play, then guys who strikeout with a guy on 3b with less than 2 outs. Thats considered a wasted AB. Strikeouts dont help the team. Wasted AB's. A concept you probably will never understand. I like Dunn, but I dont like the fact he will strikeout 200 times a year, and he is a huge liability in the field. Which hurts the team.

Edited September 16, 2006 by baseball7897

[RockTheIvy]

I believe I put the Ball in Ball.

[baseball7897]

Strikeouts are unconcentrated AB's. You can never gurantee a player will make a play. Nothing wrong with having the concept of putting the ball in play.

[RockTheIvy]

Quick with the edits! You're killing my post!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I like Dunn, but I dont like the fact he is a liability in the field, and he K's way too much. Cubs already have a couple of guys who will strikeout over a 100 times in a season(lee and Jones). Strikeouts are wasted AB's to me. Having 3 guys in your lineup who will K is not something I would like in a lineup. Put the ball in play and make something happen.

 

And that's pretty ridiculous. This isn't little league or high school ball for that matter. Even the most defensively challenged major leaguer makes most of the plays. When the ball is put in play, more times than not, an out is recorded.

 

The put it in play mantra is great in little league. I hate 12 year olds that strike out because with that age, 75% of the time when the ball is in play, something good does happen for the team at bat. Not so in the majors.

 

I want production. Dunn makes fewer outs than most other options for LF. When he does make an out, it's often with the K. Big deal because he is still making fewer outs. Outs are the most valuable commodity in the

game. The players who make fewer outs (OBP) and make the most of their contact (SLG) are the most valuable (OPS).

 

Ok, you obviosuly didnt understand what I was saying. And there you go again, jumping to conclusions. When you put the ball in play you are putting pressure on the defense. Putting the ball in play means hits, doubles, triples, HR. I dont know why you brought up little league ball? I rather have guys who put the ball in play, then guys who strikeout with a guy on 3b with less than 2 outs. Thats considered a wasted AB. Strikeouts dont help the team. Wasted AB's. A concept you probably will never understand. I like Dunn, but I dont like the fact he will strikeout 200 times a year, and he is a huge liability in the field. Which hurts the team.

 

Ah...so you didn't mean put the ball in play, but rather reach base safely. I prefer getting on base to putting the ball in play. Dunn is in the upper echelon of getting on base which is a lot more important than putting the ball in play.

 

 

I like Dunn because he's 26 and can put up a 900 OPS. Getting on base and making the most of your contact is something Dunn does better than most in the game. Putting pressure on the defense matters little.

 

You're absolutely right that strike-outs don't help the team. Neither do groundouts to second, fly outs to right, 6-4-3 double play balls or most other outs. Dunn's ability to get on base and hit for power far outweigh any scenario in which "little ball" might be required.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Strikeouts are unconcentrated AB's. You can never gurantee a player will make a play. Nothing wrong with having the concept of putting the ball in play.

 

If putting the ball in play results in a 4-3 groundout every time, yes there is.

This isn't little league, if you can't maximize the results (SLG or at least a hit) when you put in play, it makes no difference.

[Outshined_One]

One of the kiddies at Reds Zone brings up an excellent point:

 

In a full season over roughly 675 plate appearances, Adam Dunn is responsible for ~110 runs of offensive production all by himself. Essentially, what that means is Adam Dunn is responsible for over 14 percent of the team's entire offensive run production, but he uses only 10.5 percent of all their plate appearances.

 

If Dunn does not come back next season, the question I'm asking repeatedly is how in the world are the Reds going to find an offensive replacement capable of producing 110 runs over those 675 plate appearances?

 

What I know is that an 800-run offense can allow 710 runs through pitching/defense and still win 90 games. But a 750-run offense can only allow around 665 runs through pitching/defense if it wants to win those 90 games. Drop the offense down to 700 runs, and you need to allow no more than 620 runs on pitching/defense.

 

If our source of offensive run production is significantly cut down, there better be massive improvements in run prevention if people expect to see a positive net gain in the standings.

 

In essence, that's why I think the Reds would want to start off with a package involving a #4 to slide into their rotation next season, a quality reliever, a potentially solid future 2B, and one of the top 25 prospects in all of baseball. They want to compete now; losing Dunn would go a long way in hurting that

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

One of the kiddies at Reds Zone brings up an excellent point:

 

In a full season over roughly 675 plate appearances, Adam Dunn is responsible for ~110 runs of offensive production all by himself. Essentially, what that means is Adam Dunn is responsible for over 14 percent of the team's entire offensive run production, but he uses only 10.5 percent of all their plate appearances.

 

If Dunn does not come back next season, the question I'm asking repeatedly is how in the world are the Reds going to find an offensive replacement capable of producing 110 runs over those 675 plate appearances?

 

What I know is that an 800-run offense can allow 710 runs through pitching/defense and still win 90 games. But a 750-run offense can only allow around 665 runs through pitching/defense if it wants to win those 90 games. Drop the offense down to 700 runs, and you need to allow no more than 620 runs on pitching/defense.

 

If our source of offensive run production is significantly cut down, there better be massive improvements in run prevention if people expect to see a positive net gain in the standings.

 

In essence, that's why I think the Reds would want to start off with a package involving a #4 to slide into their rotation next season, a quality reliever, a potentially solid future 2B, and one of the top 25 prospects in all of baseball. They want to compete now; losing Dunn would go a long way in hurting that

 

That post also illustrates the value Dunn brings to a line-up. The Cubs could use that production in LF.

 

No matter how much he doesn't put the ball in play, that's a hellova lot of production.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Strikeouts are unconcentrated AB's. You can never gurantee a player will make a play. Nothing wrong with having the concept of putting the ball in play.

 

Except that without the strikeouts you will not get all the walks and extra base hits that make the player so valuable. Players don't just cut down on their K's and continue to walk and hit home runs and doubles at the same rate. There's a reason that the players with the most K's spend most of the time beating the crap out of the ball and the players with the fewest K's are a bunch of singles hitters(with some exceptions of course). Of course putting the ball in play could lead to a hit, but when you make not striking out the focus, then you end up with weak contact and never hit the ball hard at all.

[Sammy Sofa]

"Putting the ball in play is better than striking out" is verging on being the next "clogging the bases."

[Guest]

actually, that is generally a true statement mojo so its not really comparable. its just far less important than not making an out and hitting for power.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

One of the kiddies at Reds Zone brings up an excellent point:

 

In a full season over roughly 675 plate appearances, Adam Dunn is responsible for ~110 runs of offensive production all by himself. Essentially, what that means is Adam Dunn is responsible for over 14 percent of the team's entire offensive run production, but he uses only 10.5 percent of all their plate appearances.

 

If Dunn does not come back next season, the question I'm asking repeatedly is how in the world are the Reds going to find an offensive replacement capable of producing 110 runs over those 675 plate appearances?

 

What I know is that an 800-run offense can allow 710 runs through pitching/defense and still win 90 games. But a 750-run offense can only allow around 665 runs through pitching/defense if it wants to win those 90 games. Drop the offense down to 700 runs, and you need to allow no more than 620 runs on pitching/defense.

 

If our source of offensive run production is significantly cut down, there better be massive improvements in run prevention if people expect to see a positive net gain in the standings.

 

In essence, that's why I think the Reds would want to start off with a package involving a #4 to slide into their rotation next season, a quality reliever, a potentially solid future 2B, and one of the top 25 prospects in all of baseball. They want to compete now; losing Dunn would go a long way in hurting that

 

Outshined, I think it comes down to how much the Reds' front office values Dunn.

 

Most of us value him enough to give an arm and a leg.

 

I still don't think he's traded to the Cubs.

[Outshined_One]

Outshined, I think it comes down to how much the Reds' front office values Dunn.

 

Most of us value him enough to give an arm and a leg.

 

I still don't think he's traded to the Cubs.

 

I trying to think of a way to pitch this idea to Hendry by making Adam Dunn look like Ryan Harvey or Brian Dopirak since we all know Hendry doesn't care for BBs. :-k

[Outshined_One]

So, does everyone here still think Hill for Dunn would be a ludicrous offer?

 

;)

[Guest]

So, does everyone here still think Hill for Dunn would be a ludicrous offer?

 

;)

 

if Wood and Prior were healthy I would make that trade. now, maybe not.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Maybe we should offer the Reds Prior and a prospect for Dunn and see what they think of it.

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe we should offer the Reds Prior and a prospect for Dunn and see what they think of it.

 

No thanks. Give Prior within the division and it's a lock he magically heals 110% and beats up on the Cubs savagely for almost a decade. I know this to be so. It is written in the stars.

[A New Era]

Hill is more valuable to us than Dunn (right now). We desperately need pitching. Hill shows that he could be a very good guy next year.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Dunn ain't coming to Chicago, other then being a visitor.

 

Cincy ain't going to trade Dunn to Chicago, so why are people still on this horse?

That's your opinion, not fact. People are perfectly welcome to talk about it if they want.

 

And I am not stating my opinion as fact, but more like, it's something that is LIKELY to happen.

 

So again...we've beat the Adam Dunn debate to death. We've talked about every friggin' angle that can be talk about. This board is split in half...those who want him, and those who don't. And chances are, this debate will continue on with NOTHING NEW being added.

[A New Era]

Dunn walked once with 3 balls.

[CubsInNC]

Dunn walked once with 3 balls.

 

And with that, I have a new found respect for the man. And it explains the occasional wide-leg steps he has to take.

[Yestheydo]

Dunn is a great complementary player who would be perfect for the Cubs. The reason a lot of Reds fans don't like him is that he's expected to perform like a franchise player but doesn't.

 

I expect the Reds will explore offers for him, but not trade him lightly. If Hendry wanted him badly enough, he could get him.

 

Also, they'd probably love to get Izturis in the deal.

[Backtobanks]

Dunn is a great complementary player who would be perfect for the Cubs. The reason a lot of Reds fans don't like him is that he's expected to perform like a franchise player but doesn't.

 

I expect the Reds will explore offers for him, but not trade him lightly. If Hendry wanted him badly enough, he could get him.

 

Also, they'd probably love to get Izturis in the deal.

 

I've stated that I'm not a big Dunn fan, but if they want Izturis and not too much more, I'm all for it.