Dunn Talk in Cincinnati

[RichHillIsABeast]

He's not an elite offensive LF anyway and his D just further detracts from his value.

 

There's a reason why he was supposed to move to 1B until Hatteburg showed up.

 

OBP is great, but it's not the be-all, end-all to baseball. There are other ways to make a winning team besides an OBP stacked lineup. Pitching and defense do count. Anyone heard of the Oakland A's? They don't have OBP monsters anymore and still win games.

 

OBP doesn't hurt and it is important, but other factors matter. You don't just look at someone's OBP and ignore their other shortcomings and expect to field a winning team.

 

Why isn't Dunn an "elite" offensive LFer?

 

He's 2nd in walks and HRs, and 7th in OBP., SLG, and OPS. I'd say top 10 in those categories makes him elite. Who cares if strikes out or doesn't hit for a high average? But that's just me.

 

I'll take Adam Dunn, Barry Bonds, Migual Cabrera, and Manny Rameriz any day of the week to play LF for me.

 

15 runs over the course of a seson is not that important.

 

There are 18 ML left fielders with 500+ PA. Dunn is 5th in OBP and SLG.

 

5th place doesn't even put him in the top 25%. Yeah, "elite" isn't the word I'd use to describe Dunn's offense.

 

Is he good or above average offensively? Absolutely. But, when you take defense into account, he become very average overall in LF.

[RockTheIvy]

15 runs over the course of a seson is not that important.

 

It's a win and a half by itself.

 

So would it be correct in saying that Adam Dunn will cost the team @ 1.5 wins over the course of the season with his defense?

 

In 2005 his VORP was a remarkable 45. This year his winshare is 21 and his RC is 98. Call me crazy but, that makes him an elite LFer.

 

45 is good, but by no means remarkable. Derrek Lee had a VORP over 90 last year, that's remarkable.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I don't mean to suggest that Dunn sucks. Far from it. But, getting him at this stage of the game, and from a division rival no less, will cost us substantially in prospects.

 

Giving up someone like Veal, Pawelek, Hill, or Pie is a no-no for a non-elite player.

 

I wouldn't mind nabbing him in FA in a few years, even if his D is below average for his position. All he costs us then is $.

[CubinNY]

I don't mean to suggest that Dunn sucks. Far from it. But, getting him at this stage of the game, and from a division rival no less, will cost us substantially in prospects.

 

Giving up someone like Veal, Pawelek, Hill, or Pie is a no-no for a non-elite player.

 

I wouldn't mind nabbing him in FA in a few years, even if his D is below average for his position. All he costs us then is $.

 

How do you know who the Reds will want. Maybe they think like you do and do really believe he's all that good.

 

Maybe Hendry doesn't think all that much of him and won't trade him away for much.

 

Either way, it is worth exploring.

[CuseCubFan69]

How are his hustle stats looking these days?

 

I know his team is looking up at the Cards in the standings.

Yep, all because Pujols hustles.

 

A lot better than Dunn does.

Reasons the Cards are above the Reds in the standings:

 

1) Albert Pujols does EVERYTHING much better than Adam Dunn

2) Chris Carpenter is better than Bronson Arroyo

3) The Cards bullpen is far, far superior to the Reds pen

4) Rolen is better than the second best hitter on the Reds (which is who at this point?)

...

197) Pujols hustles more than Dunn

 

I didn't say it was because of hustle, you did.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I don't mean to suggest that Dunn sucks. Far from it. But, getting him at this stage of the game, and from a division rival no less, will cost us substantially in prospects.

 

Giving up someone like Veal, Pawelek, Hill, or Pie is a no-no for a non-elite player.

 

I wouldn't mind nabbing him in FA in a few years, even if his D is below average for his position. All he costs us then is $.

 

How do you know who the Reds will want. Maybe they think like you do and do really believe he's all that good.

 

Maybe Hendry doesn't think all that much of him and won't trade him away for much.

 

Either way, it is worth exploring.

 

New ownership signed him to an 2/18.5M extension with a 13M option for 2008. I think they value him plenty.

 

I love the "how do you know how much Team X values him" arguement. That's not the point. Other teams value OBP and SLG plenty. That sets the market, b/c they are the ones who determine what they will pay / how much they need a certain commodity. The Reds willingness to trade Dunn is set by the Reds own perception of his worth, but you can rest assured they know what others are willing to pay for him. It's simple economics.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Dunn ain't coming to Chicago, other then being a visitor.

 

Cincy ain't going to trade Dunn to Chicago, so why are people still on this horse?

That's your opinion, not fact. People are perfectly welcome to talk about it if they want.

 

And I am not stating my opinion as fact, but more like, it's something that is LIKELY to happen.

That's probably what you INTENDED to say, but not what you DID say. The wording you used did imply fact, not opinion, since you didn't use wording such as "probable" or "likely."

 

I'm sorry if you read it wrong and the fact I typed too fast to put my whole thought in, instead of half a thought.

 

But I went back and made the correction. It now has an opinion being stated, not fact. Even tho, I believe it is fact that Dunn won't be coming to Chicago, and continuation of this thread will likely stalled with every angle about Dunn will be exhausted.

So in other words you think it is a Dunn deal that he won't be coming to the Cubs. :D

 

Like I said, I think it's unlikely, but it can't be completely ruled out.

 

Yes, it's a "Dunn deal" that Adam won't be coming to the Cubs from the Reds. Now I'm not saying Dunn won't come from another team in a few yrs, but coming from Reds, HIGHLY unlikely.