Freddy Bynum

[muntjack]

Who is the only player Dusty ever berated on the field?

 

Oh, that's right, it was Corey.

 

No one here is saying that Dusty loves young players :D

 

It would certainly help if he had never made the heat comment.

 

If I had those leanings, I would try to temper it once in a while to not make it so obvious, so I could keep my job.

 

Of course, how hard would it be to come up through the major leagues in a time where you are discriminated against, eventually rise to a mangement position, and NOT want to turn the tables a little?

[rynesrevenge0206]

Who is the only player Dusty ever berated on the field?

 

Oh, that's right, it was Corey.

 

Corey is as black as Tiger Woods.... :shock:

[SouthSideRyan]

Who is the only player Dusty ever berated on the field?

 

Oh, that's right, it was Corey.

 

Corey is as black as Tiger Woods.... :shock:

 

That's absurd.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Exactly right, Tim. Corey Patterson was who I was thinking of when people were talking about their theory.

 

Who is the only player Dusty ever berated on the field?

 

Oh, that's right, it was Corey.

 

When was this, what happened?

 

September, 2004, when his 2 HRs accounted for all the Cubs runs in a win over the Pirates.

 

It happened seconds after this:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/Navinda/CXC109091423_lower.jpg

[A New Era]

Exactly right, Tim. Corey Patterson was who I was thinking of when people were talking about their theory.

 

Who is the only player Dusty ever berated on the field?

 

Oh, that's right, it was Corey.

 

When was this, what happened?

 

September, 2004, when his 2 HRs accounted for all the Cubs runs in a win over the Pirates.

 

It happened seconds after this:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/Navinda/CXC109091423_lower.jpg

 

Story?

[NewUserName]

In Dusty's era so far with the Cubs there has been some questionable decisions on playing time. I wonder sometimes if how a player will preform in the hot sun is why. Though as some have mentioned there has been other examples.

 

This is in all serious now. I really think fishing buddies is the answer. When running a baseball team I think this is every bit as bad as who plays better in the hot sun. Its just not as socially incorrect

[Bruno7481]

Intelligent thread....

 

:roll:

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Since I seem to have started this maelstorm with an off the cuff comment last night, I'm going to offer a little clarification.

 

I think Dusty is not above showing favortism. I don't think that favortism is always based on the same ideas. Sometimes it could be based on tenure in the majors, sometimes it might be based on whether he likes you, sometimes other things which I may or may not have alluded to in this thread. I don't think he does it with bad intentions. But I find it hard to argue that he does have "favorites".

 

I think for whatever reason, Bynum has become a player Dusty likes. Dusty will seek to protect those he likes. Others, he may be willing to throw under the bus if it will make him look better. I doubt he will do that to Bynum. My guess is that Bynum will see another start this week inspite of the errors. Had it been Theriot, my guess is we might only see one or two more starts for the year.

[CubColtPacer]

Here are comments from Bynum and Baker after the game:

 

 

 

"The best thing to do is forget about it," Bynum said. "It's hard to forget about it, but you've got to go out there for eight more innings."

 

"I didn't say anything to him yet -- you leave him alone," Baker said. "I was contemplating taking him out, but that would've made it worse. He was in there, because I thought he had the best chance of hitting Derek Lowe."

 

Lee didn't say anything to Bynum either during the game.

 

"We played bad defense tonight," Lee said. "I had the slowest ground ball ever and I missed it, but we got the win which makes it OK."

 

Pretty good for Dusty. He's right, you shouldn't say something to a player that has been that humiliated during the game, but the inference is that he is going to say something to Bynum, he just hadn't by right after the game. Combine that with that he did take Bynum out of the ballgame after Lowe left, and I have no problem with this one.

[Backtobanks]

Again we see what 2 of the biggest problems that the Cubs have. Hendry liking "toolsy" players and overpaying them and Dusty's insistence on playing the 25th man (Macias, Bynum) every chance he gets. Not only does he play them, but he bats them at the top of the lineup. Having a player on the team like Bynum, Macias, or Perez might be a necessity to complete a roster, but you don't play them on a regular basis, bat them at the top of the lineup, or use them as the first bat off the bench in a tight game.

[CubColtPacer]

Again we see what 2 of the biggest problems that the Cubs have. Hendry liking "toolsy" players and overpaying them and Dusty's insistence on playing the 25th man (Macias, Bynum) every chance he gets. Not only does he play them, but he bats them at the top of the lineup. Having a player on the team like Bynum, Macias, or Perez might be a necessity to complete a roster, but you don't play them on a regular basis, bat them at the top of the lineup, or use them as the first bat off the bench in a tight game.

 

The problem with that is that Bynum is just as good as the rest of our bench. He's better than Mabry, he's better than Cedeno. He has almost the same stats as Pagan. The only one who he's significantly behind right now is Theriot-and while I think Theriot is a little better than Bynum, we know that Theriot's numbers are pretty inflated.

Also, Bynum has been permanantly scarred in most Cubs fans minds for what he did in April and early May-his first major league experience! Here are his numbers since then (since May 8th to be exact):

 

.292/.357/.494 (89 AB's)

 

Are those numbers inflated? I'm sure they are. Has he been a good hitter since that point? Absolutely-and I don't think he's any worse than the rest of the bench.

[neely crenshaw]

Why is Bynum the only rookie Dusty will defend?

 

I have my theory, but I'm not opening that can of worms tonight.

 

i won't either...but it seems his guys have a common denominator...i don't mean being free swingers

[TheDude]

Again we see what 2 of the biggest problems that the Cubs have. Hendry liking "toolsy" players and overpaying them and Dusty's insistence on playing the 25th man (Macias, Bynum) every chance he gets.

 

Hendry's attraction to toolsy players has nothing to do with this discussion of Bynum. This argument doesn't have to get trotted into every discussion.

 

As was pointed out, Bynum's second half has been solid. I didn't see the issue with his start last night. Both he and Theriot have been hot of late.

 

I will however agree with Vance that Dusty does play favorites. And his favorites have a clear pattern - they put the ball into play (few walks or strikeouts) and ability to run. Power, plate discipline, and even performance (recent or career) don't seem to carry nearly the weight of the two factors above them.

 

I think it is a legitimate question to ask Dusty though, regarding his questionable pattern of 'leash length' on young players. I don't believe there is a racial issue regarding veteran players and playing time, but the track record on younger players does raise an eyebrow. Perhaps it is coincidence, and I don't think conclusions could be drawn without looking at Dusty's entire managerial career in this respect.

[RynoRules]

Forgeting the race card for a second (unfounded, IMO, for the reasons stated by Tim earlier and the fact that Dusty has consistently defended ARam but did not defend Sammy's behavior at the end of his tenure, and by the fact that he had some major man-love for guys like David Bell in SF), I must say that Bynum's fielding last night was as bad as I have seen a MLBer play in 26 years of watching baseball.

[Abe Frohman]

Baker said Bynum played last night because he felt he had a better chance of hitting Lowe. Lowe is going to throw ground balls, that's a given. Bynum is fast. Do the math.

 

The problem is, Theriot is hot. Theriot is not slow either. The way he has been playing ball lately warrants him staying in the lineup. It's justified. It is hard for us to understand why Dusty Baker will sit ONE player, yet allow ANOTHER player a much longer leash. I think it is pretty obvious who should be playing 2nd for the Cubs.

 

I think Dusty Baker has a knack for making and breaking players. I look forward to the end of this era for the Cubs, and finally we can see some of our prospects actually develope into Major League players.

[BeerHere]

Baker said Bynum played last night because he felt he had a better chance of hitting Lowe. Lowe is going to throw ground balls, that's a given. Bynum is fast. Do the math.

 

The problem is, Theriot is hot. Theriot is not slow either. The way he has been playing ball lately warrants him staying in the lineup. It's justified. It is hard for us to understand why Dusty Baker will sit ONE player, yet allow ANOTHER player a much longer leash. I think it is pretty obvious who should be playing 2nd for the Cubs.

 

I think Dusty Baker has a knack for making and breaking players. I look forward to the end of this era for the Cubs, and finally we can see some of our prospects actually develope into Major League players.

 

Agreed

[YearofDaCubs]

Baker said Bynum played last night because he felt he had a better chance of hitting Lowe. Lowe is going to throw ground balls, that's a given. Bynum is fast. Do the math.

 

The problem is, Theriot is hot. Theriot is not slow either. The way he has been playing ball lately warrants him staying in the lineup. It's justified. It is hard for us to understand why Dusty Baker will sit ONE player, yet allow ANOTHER player a much longer leash. I think it is pretty obvious who should be playing 2nd for the Cubs.

 

I think Dusty Baker has a knack for making and breaking players. I look forward to the end of this era for the Cubs, and finally we can see some of our prospects actually develope into Major League players.

Theriot should be a MUST START every game until the end of season. Starting Bynum at 2B is ludicrous!

[neely crenshaw]

the problem with bynum is that he (from what i can see from his history) is primarily listed as an outfielder but is taking all his turns at 2b. his stats are ok but from what i can tell no one in baseball thinks he is anything other than a utility guy except dusty. for that reason when we are so bad and so far out of it. it seems like we should be finding out if theriot can be the guy next year, same with blanco...catch the kid and see if he can be the back up...you know what you have in lee and even aram...play moore 4 out of 5 days..let's see what we have- and maybe just maybe we can even show some value for potential deals if these guys aren't in our plans!

i mean if we are looking at a 2b...why not show off theriot a bit and as long as he keeps hitting...keep sending him out there. i mean bobby hill got us aram, so we might be able to spear something for theriot..who has shown some good upside.

the only thing i can figure is that hendry thinks bynum might be the future 2nd bagger..which is crazy. one week of watching mishandles, bobbles , failure to make turns and plain old errors should tell you..he isn't the answer

[cubfan1955]

the only thing i can figure is that hendry thinks bynum might be the future 2nd bagger..which is crazy. one week of watching mishandles, bobbles , failure to make turns and plain old errors should tell you..he isn't the answer

 

Agreed...and that is the scary part.

[CubColtPacer]

Baker said Bynum played last night because he felt he had a better chance of hitting Lowe. Lowe is going to throw ground balls, that's a given. Bynum is fast. Do the math.

 

The problem is, Theriot is hot. Theriot is not slow either. The way he has been playing ball lately warrants him staying in the lineup. It's justified. It is hard for us to understand why Dusty Baker will sit ONE player, yet allow ANOTHER player a much longer leash. I think it is pretty obvious who should be playing 2nd for the Cubs.

 

It's not that Theriot has lost his job. They have said they are going to split time the rest of the season. Bynum starting does not say anything bad about Theriot-it just means they feel the players are close to equal, and they would like to see them both get time. Theriot was hitting significantly better than Bynum when Bynum came back-has that continued? Here are their stats for September (which is about half the time they have been splitting time-a few of their at-bats in August came when they were a DP combo, and yes, Theriot was much better than Bynum in August)

 

Player A (28 AB's)-.250/.382/.500

Player B (17 AB's)-.294/.455/.588

 

What's the difference between these two players? Who's hotter at the plate? It's hard to tell. It looks like Player B has a good advantage, but the small number of at-bats makes it hard. What can be found is that both players are doing very, very well.

 

BTW, Player A is Ryan Theriot

Player B is Freddie Bynum

[Scott G. F.]

BYNUM-YN=BUM!

[Backtobanks]

Bynum's ceiling is the 25th man on a team because of his speed and versatility. He is the new Macias and unfortunately, Dusty is using him like Macias (starting, batting 2nd, using him as the first bat off the bench, etc.) Theriot's ceiling is the utility infielder on a team. One of the problems most of us have is the lack of direction that the Cubs have. If Cedeno is the future 2B (now that Izturis is back) then play Cedeno. Personally, I don't think any of these 3 guys will be the starting 2B next year. Are we playing the kids or are we trying to win now? Why do some guys get a 2nd chance, while others are buried on the bench after one screwup?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Exactly right, Tim. Corey Patterson was who I was thinking of when people were talking about their theory.

 

Who is the only player Dusty ever berated on the field?

 

Oh, that's right, it was Corey.

 

When was this, what happened?

 

September, 2004, when his 2 HRs accounted for all the Cubs runs in a win over the Pirates.

 

It happened seconds after this:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/Navinda/CXC109091423_lower.jpg

 

Story?

 

Earlier in the game, Corey was at first and missed a steal sign and did not steal second. Seconds later, there was a double play, ending that threat.

 

When Corey hit his walk-off in extras, Dusty was seen chastising him on the field after Corey scored.

 

After that game, Corey slumped through the rest of September, and then had his brutal 2005.

[SouthSideRyan]

The sad thing in all this is that Bynum's fielding is the focal point when he actually seems to have taken a smart approach to hitting over the past few games. I'm sure it's just a blip in the radar, but he's actually been working the count and using an approach you'd like to see.

[Abe Frohman]

Baker said Bynum played last night because he felt he had a better chance of hitting Lowe. Lowe is going to throw ground balls, that's a given. Bynum is fast. Do the math.

 

The problem is, Theriot is hot. Theriot is not slow either. The way he has been playing ball lately warrants him staying in the lineup. It's justified. It is hard for us to understand why Dusty Baker will sit ONE player, yet allow ANOTHER player a much longer leash. I think it is pretty obvious who should be playing 2nd for the Cubs.

 

It's not that Theriot has lost his job. They have said they are going to split time the rest of the season. Bynum starting does not say anything bad about Theriot-it just means they feel the players are close to equal, and they would like to see them both get time. Theriot was hitting significantly better than Bynum when Bynum came back-has that continued? Here are their stats for September (which is about half the time they have been splitting time-a few of their at-bats in August came when they were a DP combo, and yes, Theriot was much better than Bynum in August)

 

Player A (28 AB's)-.250/.382/.500

Player B (17 AB's)-.294/.455/.588

 

What's the difference between these two players? Who's hotter at the plate? It's hard to tell. It looks like Player B has a good advantage, but the small number of at-bats makes it hard. What can be found is that both players are doing very, very well.

BTW, Player A is Ryan Theriot

Player B is Freddie Bynum

 

There is a distinct difference in hitting styles between Ryan Theriot and Freddie Bynum. Theriot works a count, takes a walk, and has - so far - been pretty good in the clutch (I am sure someone can dig up the stats, I don't have time right now). Bynum has a worse BB/K ratio, but has good speed and is a "Baker type" because he seems to swing as much as possible. To me, in a pinch I want a guy like Bynum (I thought Randall Simon was the ultimate pinch hitter).

 

Unrelated, I saw where Simon is back in the Majors - he would be a pretty good addition to the bench.