Loria Still Won't Endorse Girardi

[goonys evil twin]

I bet if you ask the top managers if it's that simple, they would laugh! It's not as simple as you think it is.

 

Of course they would, they have to justify their inflated salaries, not to mention their own egos.

 

I don't think it's all that simple to manage the clubhouse, I think it is pretty easy to manage a baseball game. The bad ones, Dusty, are the ones who make it complicated. Unnecessarily throwing in double switches, bunts, pitch outs, and other moves makes it seems tougher than it is.

 

Dealing with the media, keeping players motivated and all that is certainly a tough task for any man. Telling your best hitters to wait for their pitch and then do with it what they can is not.

[goonys evil twin]

Certainly Gonzalez time with Cox is a plus. But don't forget Girardi spent some time around a pretty good manager as well, Joe Torre.

 

Yes, but a pretty brief time. And Torre's disciples have a mixed record of success.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Certainly Gonzalez time with Cox is a plus. But don't forget Girardi spent some time around a pretty good manager as well, Joe Torre.

 

Yes, but a pretty brief time. And Torre's disciples have a mixed record of success.

 

Come to think of it..... Torre has a mixed record of success, no?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

[goonys evil twin]

Certainly Gonzalez time with Cox is a plus. But don't forget Girardi spent some time around a pretty good manager as well, Joe Torre.

 

Yes, but a pretty brief time. And Torre's disciples have a mixed record of success.

 

Come to think of it..... Torre has a mixed record of success, no?

 

Yep, he certainly didn't prove he could manage a big league team to any success until he came to the Yankees.

[C.C.]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

[goonys evil twin]

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

The fear from me is he's too attached to conventional wisdom, and will blindly adhere to its practices if given a chance.

 

I'm not saying he will, I'm saying it's a concern that I've had about him since his name came up and he's done nothing to answer the question.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

No, I'm saying Giradi relies too much on conventional wisdom.

[C.C.]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

No, I'm saying Giradi relies too much on conventional wisdom.

 

That's what I meant... I don't see enough of his games to see if he does or not.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

No, I'm saying Giradi relies too much on conventional wisdom.

 

That's what I meant... I don't see enough of his games to see if he does or not.

 

I haven't either...but some of the quotes I've heard seem to be imply he has a strong reliance on it. It's always been my fear ever since people have bandied his name around. Girardi gives me the impression of a manager who would rely on the old adages to a fault. I'm also concerned that if given his way, he could end up with some Dusty-lie veteran fetishes. While he didn't in Florida, he didn't really have the opportunity.

[CubColtPacer]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

No, I'm saying Giradi relies too much on conventional wisdom.

 

That's what I meant... I don't see enough of his games to see if he does or not.

 

I haven't either...but some of the quotes I've heard seem to be imply he has a strong reliance on it. It's always been my fear ever since people have bandied his name around. Girardi gives me the impression of a manager who would rely on the old adages to a fault. I'm also concerned that if given his way, he could end up with some Dusty-lie veteran fetishes. While he didn't in Florida, he didn't really have the opportunity.

 

Exactly-and every time Girardi's name is brought up, people come up with "He's better than Dusty". Sure, he is-just because he is an upgrade doesn't make him the right man for the job-we could be saying many of the same things about Girardi 3 years from now. Could he be the right hire? Of course-but his Florida experience is closer to managing a minor league team to great things than managing a normal major league team (because it is so full of young players trying to prove themselves instead of potential big ego veterans). There is just so little we know about Girardi and his managerial style with a team like the Cubs that it would be a risk.

[C.C.]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

No, I'm saying Giradi relies too much on conventional wisdom.

 

That's what I meant... I don't see enough of his games to see if he does or not.

 

I haven't either...but some of the quotes I've heard seem to be imply he has a strong reliance on it. It's always been my fear ever since people have bandied his name around. Girardi gives me the impression of a manager who would rely on the old adages to a fault. I'm also concerned that if given his way, he could end up with some Dusty-lie veteran fetishes. While he didn't in Florida, he didn't really have the opportunity.

 

Exactly-and every time Girardi's name is brought up, people come up with "He's better than Dusty". Sure, he is-just because he is an upgrade doesn't make him the right man for the job-we could be saying many of the same things about Girardi 3 years from now. Could he be the right hire? Of course-but his Florida experience is closer to managing a minor league team to great things than managing a normal major league team (because it is so full of young players trying to prove themselves instead of potential big ego veterans). There is just so little we know about Girardi and his managerial style with a team like the Cubs that it would be a risk.

 

Well there is little we know about Fredi Gonzalez...larry dierker seems like a popular choice on this board, and I also would'nt mind if he threw his hat in, but does anyone actually know if he wants to manage?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I assume CW equals conventional wisdom, which is what causes managers to foolishly give away outs.

 

Yes. Goony and Fred have hit the nail on the head. CW= conventional wisdom. The ideas that we want clutch hitters, the idea that a speedy guy is needed at the top of the order, sac bunting, walking a hitter to set-up a double play, etc are all examples. I prefer a manager that knows about those things, but has looked at them critically.

 

So are you guys saying Girardi lacks Conventional Wisdom? Whatever the case what he's doing in Florida is pretty damn amazing. Espically for a first year manager.

 

No, I'm saying Giradi relies too much on conventional wisdom.

 

That's what I meant... I don't see enough of his games to see if he does or not.

 

I haven't either...but some of the quotes I've heard seem to be imply he has a strong reliance on it. It's always been my fear ever since people have bandied his name around. Girardi gives me the impression of a manager who would rely on the old adages to a fault. I'm also concerned that if given his way, he could end up with some Dusty-lie veteran fetishes. While he didn't in Florida, he didn't really have the opportunity.

 

Exactly-and every time Girardi's name is brought up, people come up with "He's better than Dusty". Sure, he is-just because he is an upgrade doesn't make him the right man for the job-we could be saying many of the same things about Girardi 3 years from now. Could he be the right hire? Of course-but his Florida experience is closer to managing a minor league team to great things than managing a normal major league team (because it is so full of young players trying to prove themselves instead of potential big ego veterans). There is just so little we know about Girardi and his managerial style with a team like the Cubs that it would be a risk.

 

Well there is little we know about Fredi Gonzalez...larry dierker seems like a popular choice on this board, and I also would'nt mind if he threw his hat in, but does anyone actually know if he wants to manage?

 

Dierker has made statements that for the right offer, he would like to try it again. I'm thinking if the Cubs offered him a 4-year contract at near the money they paid Dusty, it would be too much for him to turn away from.

 

The main reason Dierker won't be hired is that he and Hendry likely wouldn't see eye to eye on most issues about what makes a valuable player.

[UK1679666180]

Speaking of managerial candidates...

 

An odd article from Daytona, premature as far as speculation but does bring an interesting candidate.

 

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/Sports/Baseball/sptBB02082706.htm

 

Gary Carter.

 

I'd like to see someone with more experience, but at this stage of his coaching career, he'd likely make a very solid bench coach and fast tracked to be a potential manager.

 

Maybe part of the reason is... I really couldn't stand him w/Mont. and the Mets. :)

[RichHillIsABeast]

What is this Dierker with the Cubs speculation? It's like the A's hiring Dusty. Not going to happen.

[Mark_R]

I think Dierker would finish the job on Z that Dusty started.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

What is this Dierker with the Cubs speculation? It's like the A's hiring Dusty. Not going to happen.

 

Never speculated it would happen...just that it should happen.

[C.C.]

Marlins are only 2 games back from the WC now. Wow! I can't see how florida can justify letting go of Girardi?

[Soul]

Marlins are only 2 games back from the WC now. Wow! I can't see how florida can justify letting go of Girardi?

 

 

Not only that, but it sounds like they've been leaking stuff to the press trying to make Girardi look bad. The whole deal. Sort of sounds like a nasty situation down there.

 

 

I like Girardi, but I agree the Cubs should do a full candidate search and not just hire Girardi because of his Chicago history.

[C.C.]

Marlins are only 2 games back from the WC now. Wow! I can't see how florida can justify letting go of Girardi?

 

 

Not only that, but it sounds like they've been leaking stuff to the press trying to make Girardi look bad. The whole deal. Sort of sounds like a nasty situation down there.

 

 

I like Girardi, but I agree the Cubs should do a full candidate search and not just hire Girardi because of his Chicago history.

 

I totally agree! I hope they take their time and hire the best man. I just don't have too much faith left in Hendry to make the right choice. Man, this Org. is just depressing...

[C.C.]

Marlins win again tonight! Against the Cards no less. If Girardi somehow gets these guys in the playoffs he has to be manager of the year...

[dalgreen]

I have gotten the impression that there are several people just throwing out names just for the sake of throwing out names because they just don't want Baker as manager. These are likely some of the same people who wanted anybody to manage the Cubs other than Baylor and you see what that got us. To me, no manager is an upgrade if we have a GM, and those in his circle, who don't know how to evaluate talent and have little clue on how to construct a team. It's my opinion that in order for the Cubs to be successful Baker and Hendry will have to be gone. Getting rid of only one of two won't bring success.

[chuckywang]

Marlins win again tonight! Against the Cards no less. If Girardi somehow gets these guys in the playoffs he has to be manager of the year...

 

Mulder is terrible! Why couldn't he have come back in the series against us?

[Hosak8]

Come on, folks...

 

The Marlins are 9.5 games better than we are. They have Cabrera and Willis. We have ARam, Barrett, and Z, which I'd take. They have Hanley Ramirez, who I'd love to have in Chicago. Other than that, they don't have much. Uggla was a roster filler in the DBacks system, and Girardi has him playng in the All Star game as a rookie. We have better baseball players, and we play in a worse division, and they're almost 10 games better than we are?

 

Girardi has done a marvelous job with that team. He'd be an upgrade over Baker without question.

[goonys evil twin]

 

Girardi has done a marvelous job with that team. He'd be an upgrade over Baker without question.

 

The question is how much of an upgrade, and whether or not that is enough. A .500 season would be an upgrade on 2006, it still wouldn't make me happy though. And it should not be a target.