"Sometimes it's easier to play on the road"

[FergieJ31]

i'll be the insensitive one and say i bet this is probably overblown. they make it sound like baker's walking into a klan meeting everyday. 99.9% of the people booing are booing because you suck at your job, not because you're black.

 

I think your percentage is a little high. Of the 40,000 people at any given game, I'm guessing more than 40 are booing at least in part b/c Dusty's black.

 

Dusty deserves to be booed, b/c he sucks. He doesn't deserve racist letters or phone calls or any of that other crap.

 

I think his percentage was about right - maybe even a tad low. It only seems like more than 0.1% of the fans are racist because they are much louder, figuratively and literally, and much more offensive.

 

Like many of the good fans here on NSBB who are in the Chicago area, I've been going to Wrigley for many years. There definitely has been a big change in the past few years. The obnoxious fans who boo incessantly and scream obscenities tend to be "loyal" fans since 2003, or 1998 in some cases. Of all the long-time fans I know, not a single one is among the haters.

Haters? I don't think so. It's a fans right to boo and considering how bad this team is, rightfully so.

 

I never said fans don't have a right to boo. I just noted that it seems like the loudest / most obnoxious boo-birds tend to be younger fans who don't know much about the Cubs pre-2003.

 

And my prev post was guilty of not carefully differentiating between loud boo-birds & insult artists (who are within their right, as you say, even if they're obnoxious fair-weather fans), and the racists & true hate-mongerers (no excuse whatsoever on God's green earth for these ppl).

Edited August 21, 2006 by FergieJ31

[goonys evil twin]

I never said fans don't have a right to boo. I just noted that it seems like the loudest / most obnoxious boo-birds tend to be the younger fans who don't know much about the Cubs pre-2003.

 

I would think it would be difficult for somebody to poll the loudest boo-birds in the stadium to find out their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs. How did you manage it?

[stitchface]

more bones to pick with that article - one - the title makes no sense 2 - the facts are all wrong. the cubs had a half game lead over the giants and 2.5 over the astros with 8 games to play.

 

I would also add that the current negativity surrounding the team stems not from bartman but from AGone's error and Victor Diaz's homerun off of Hawkins (scoring two runner walked by Dempster). To me, that event and the subsequent collapse fostered the negativisim surrounding the team.

[goonys evil twin]

How long before these sorts of stories affects the Cubs' ability to get higher-profile free agents who aren't lilly white?

 

I can't help but think that as soon as Dusty is given his walking papers, these stories are going to become more prevalent because he's going to use that as one of his excuses for not being able to succeed in and why no minority players should choose the Cubs as their preferred free-agent destination.

 

I have no doubt that Dusty will go on a smear campaign. He's got to blame somebody for his failures and it sure won't be himself. I'm not sure it will affect too much. Chicago had a bad reputation in this regard long before Dusty Baker showed up. And in a league with decreasing numbers of American born black players, the 4 on the Cubs roster is actually kind of high.

[CUBZ99]

I think Dusty is the person making race such a big deal. I wonder if Dusty bases any of his decisions on race? He has already come out and stated that darker skinned players can handle the heat better.

[FergieJ31]

I never said fans don't have a right to boo. I just noted that it seems like the loudest / most obnoxious boo-birds tend to be the younger fans who don't know much about the Cubs pre-2003.

 

I would think it would be difficult for somebody to poll the loudest boo-birds in the stadium to find out their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs. How did you manage it?

 

What's with the sarcasm? It's obviously an opinion. It's hard to ignore these ppl after all. I might be making an blanket assessment of their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs, but we've all overheard conversations from loudmouths behind us in the stands. One can get a pretty good estimate of their baseball IQ after a few innings - I'm not making a overly gross generalization here.

[goonys evil twin]

more bones to pick with that article - one - the title makes no sense 2 - the facts are all wrong. the cubs had a half game lead over the giants and 2.5 over the astros with 8 games to play.

 

I would also add that the current negativity surrounding the team stems not from bartman but from AGone's error and Victor Diaz's homerun off of Hawkins (scoring two runner walked by Dempster). To me, that event and the subsequent collapse fostered the negativisim surrounding the team.

 

I didn't even notice the headline, that's horrible.

 

Has anybody commented on this part of the story?

 

Despite the rash of injuries, Hendry has yet to determine whether Baker and his coaching staff will be back.

 

"I don't play the excuse game. Nobody cares about excuses," Hendry says. "But Dusty shouldn't be sharing a higher percentage of the blame than anyone else. In reality, there is enough blame for all of us. I was the one who brought Dusty here. I have to bear the responsibility of the operations.

 

"If we're not winning when my contract is up (after the 2008 season), I should get whacked myself."

 

Is he admitting that bringing in Baker was a mistake and something he should be blamed for?

 

They weren't winning when his contract was extended, not sure why he thinks he should be held accountable the next time around.

[abuck1220]

if anybody knows what a racist sounds like, it's dusty "white players can't handle the heat" baker.

 

this is just stupid...

 

Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker, sitting in his Wrigley Field office, slowly opens a letter, and cringes.

It begins with a nasty racial epithet, but Baker keeps reading. He finishes the letter, slowly crumbles it in a ball and tosses it in the trash bin. Oh well, he says, at least they're getting friendlier. This one didn't include a death threat.

 

"It's not easy, I ain't lying," says Baker, in the final season of a four-year contract, "but come on, dude, I'm not going to let them beat me up.

 

"I was already strong and tough when I got here. Now, I'm stronger and tougher. They aren't going to run me out of town."

 

oh, poor dusty baker. all these racists are trying to run him out of town, not because a 95 mil payroll team is 20 games under, but because they hate black people.

 

The true fans have been great, but it's changed there and become hostile," she says. "I can't subject a 7-year-old to people booing his dad or hearing that kind of language. You want him to go somewhere where there's no negativity.

 

"But you can't always protect him. Someone mentioned to him at the park the other day, 'I heard that your dad will be fired.' He has no clue."

 

newsflash...people want him fired because he sucks, not because he's black. quit trying to play the victim.

[goonys evil twin]

I never said fans don't have a right to boo. I just noted that it seems like the loudest / most obnoxious boo-birds tend to be the younger fans who don't know much about the Cubs pre-2003.

 

I would think it would be difficult for somebody to poll the loudest boo-birds in the stadium to find out their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs. How did you manage it?

 

What's with the sarcasm? It's obviously an opinion. It's hard to ignore these ppl after all. I might be making an blanket assessment of their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs, but we've all overheard conversations from loudmouths behind us in the stands. One can get a pretty good estimate of their baseball IQ after a few innings - I'm not making a overly gross generalization here.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, that's just my language. I just think you've made a gross generalization with no facts to back you up. First off, younger fans can't be blamed for not knowing about the Cubs past all that much, I really don't know much about the team before I became a fan. I've heard the stories but don't "know" them like somebody who lived it would. Secondly, I find it hard to believe they became fans in 2003 and got passionate enough about it to freak out about this year's team. I'm sure they are mostly younger, you can make a pretty good judgement on people's age. But you can't determine whether or not they just became fans in 2003.

[jjgman21]

You know what I'm starting to think?

 

I'm starting to think there hasn't been more than maybe one or two racist letters for any of those guys.

 

Society is getting to the point where it isn't necessary to drop an "n-bomb" to be accused of racism.

 

I'm not so naive as to believe that there haven't been any truly racist letters received... but I am beginning to think that if somebody writes Dusty a letter and calls him a s***head, they're trying to spin that into "He's hated because he's black." instead of the more accurate "He's hated because he sucks"

 

I think there are alot of racists out there who have no problem attributing suckitude to race when a player or manager is sucking. the sucking just brings the racism out of them. if the Cubs were competetive, Jones was performing worse and Baker performing the same, few would mention the race of the rightfielder or manager. the Cubs suck, so that bigotry comes flowing out.

 

its much like the Mel Gibson situation. he wouldn't say anything anti-Semetic without the booze. racist Cub fans wouldn't use slurs without the lose.

[abuck1220]

i also find it amusing that on the same day that some guy on the radio bashes cubs fans for accepting crappiness and continuing to go to the ballpark, some guy at usa today writes an article basically asking cub fans to cut baker slack, not boo, and basically embrace losing.

[jjgman21]

How is it that some people in the media bash Cub fans as a group for filling Wrigley every game and being too supportive of a team that consistently loses, while at the same time, others in the media write about how Cub fans are too negative?

 

Seriously, every team has problems with its fans at some level. Idiots who write racist hatemail, people who throw things at players, morons that run onto the field, etc....these people do not represent the majority of any team's fans.

 

there's definitely a catch-22 for Cub fans here. support trash and get criticized for supporting trash, protest against trash and get criticized for bashing your own team.

[stitchface]

my response

 

 

Dear Mr. Nightengale,

I am deeply disturbed by your recent article titled “Baker Endures as Cubs’ Expectations Fall Short.” Foremost, the stories of racism and hate mail disgust me. That Baker, Jones, Patterson, Hawkins and others had to endure the ignorance of these pathetic, small-minded people is upsetting. I hope these men understand that this racism is not representative of Cub fans.

 

Unfortunately, this seems to be the message of your article. By mixing fan frustration with losing with racism, you are implying that Cub fans, tired of losing, are becoming racist and spreading hate. This is far from the truth. Cub fans are tired of poor performance by players of any race, tired of poor managerial decisions, and tired of the lack of direction of the team. Their frustration is directed at those responsible for the team’s play – primarily the players, the manager and the general manager. The race of those responsible is not a factor in this frustration.

 

Unfortunately, racism still exists throughout the United States and the World. But let’s be clear that racists are racists due to their own ignorance and social failings and not as the result of a baseball team’s failings. The majority of Cub fans have suffered enough and do not deserve to be unfairly labeled as racist due to the actions of a few individuals who may or may not be fans and who certainly are not respected by the majority of Cub fans.

 

This article was brought to my attention on an internet chat site for Cubs fans (NSBB.com). The site is populated by several thousand Cub fans from different backgrounds, from different areas, and of frequently differing opinions. One thing we all agree is that we are tired of Cubs futility. For a better understanding of the feelings of Cub fans, I would like to invite you to visit the site. Certainly there are racists at the site, but they are not tolerated.

 

Finally, I have to ask – how do you produce the facts in your article? They are not correct. The Cubs had a 0.5 game lead over San Francisco and 2.5 over Houston for the wildcard with 8 games to play in 2004. This information and tons more is available at baseballreference.com – a great resource. Any well-versed fan understands that the downfall of the Cubs began not with the Bartman incident – a media creation to add to the folklore of the Cubs failings – but with an Alex Gonzalez error three batters later on a groundball that should have been an inning ending double play – with the Cubs leading 3-1. Nevertheless optimism persisted into 2004 and the Cubs were well positioned to claim the wildcard until a Victor Diaz three run homer on September 25 at Shea Stadium. The homerun came off Latroy Hawkins and magnified his high profile failings in what was a very good season for Hawkins. The other two runners were on board due to Dempster walks, by the way.

 

I don’t think we need to look any further than that to find the beginnings of the current negativity surrounding the team and the dislike for Mr. Hawkins. Unfortunately this negativity seems to empower the ignorant. They do not represent the rest of us.

 

Sincerely,

Juan Sorensen

Cub fan in Davis, California

[stitchface]

Jim, unlike Dusty, is accepting responsibility based on that quote. I did notice that and was pleased. is there some chance he will try new strategies?

[Sammy Sofa]

Nicely done, stitch! Edited August 21, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[goonys evil twin]

Jim, unlike Dusty, is accepting responsibility based on that quote. I did notice that and was pleased. is there some chance he will try new strategies?

 

I'm sure he'll try something different, he always does. The problem is it might not be new, just a recycled idea from the days of old.

[stitchface]

Nicely done, stitch!

 

yea, now how do I send it to him?

[Electron Blue]

Maybe I just don't hang with racists because I've never heard another Cubs fan say that he dislikes a player because he is black. It's always because a player just isn't good in that persons opinion. I think if a black player gets booed a lot of people just assume it is because he is black. That's the easy excuse anyway.

 

Don't you remember all the times Sosa was booed back when he was hitting the hr's. We just couldn't stand that he had the audacity to challenge a white-boy like McGwire. Cubs fans really rallied around Mark in 1998 and let Sammy have it.

 

But our inherent racism isn't all bad. It helped Todd Hundley feel right at home when, as a fanbase, we all supported him through his struggles soley because he was white.

 

Boy, I'm dense at times. I was getting ready to bash you for this ignorant post when suddenly my sarcasm detector light clicked on. :D

 

In light of that, well said.

[Electron Blue]

Nicely done, stitch!

 

yea, now how do I send it to him?

 

lol.

 

I'd try sending it to one of the addresses on http://www.usatoday.com/marketing/feedback.htm?POE=FOOTER

 

I don't see any way to explicitly contact a specific writer, but add "ATTN: Bob Nightengale" and maybe he'll get it. And just because you don't get a response back doesn't mean he didn't get it ;)

[fiver]

Maybe I just don't hang with racists because I've never heard another Cubs fan say that he dislikes a player because he is black. It's always because a player just isn't good in that persons opinion. I think if a black player gets booed a lot of people just assume it is because he is black. That's the easy excuse anyway.

 

Don't you remember all the times Sosa was booed back when he was hitting the hr's. We just couldn't stand that he had the audacity to challenge a white-boy like McGwire. Cubs fans really rallied around Mark in 1998 and let Sammy have it.

 

But our inherent racism isn't all bad. It helped Todd Hundley feel right at home when, as a fanbase, we all supported him through his struggles soley because he was white.

 

Boy, I'm dense at times. I was getting ready to bash you for this ignorant post when suddenly my sarcasm detector light clicked on. :D

 

In light of that, well said.

 

The batteries were totally spent and not just low on power, because the smoke permeated throughout that post.

 

I agree....Cubs fans are on the receiving end of a great deal of abuse today.

[swordsman]

Sorry folks, I read the article and I just didn't read it as making excuses for the losing.

 

I also find it difficult to comment on how much effect the letters, phone calls and verbal taunts and threat would effect a player without more details.

 

Now, who will be the first to bring up Jackie Robinson?

 

There is a reason his number is essentially retired throughout the Major Leagues and it ain't just this play on the field.

[Jerry Mumphrey]

I agree....Cubs fans are on the receiving end of a great deal of abuse today.

 

No kidding, how about this for the subect of an article.

 

Cub fans are among the most knowledgeable in baseball. They turn out in droves to support the team because of a beautiful, historic ballpark that hasn't succumbed to needless modernization, and tends to exhibit a social environment of true cameraderie. Armed with a recent uptake in spending toward roster improvement, ownership has given fans a taste of postseason play and hope for an end to the nearly-60 year pennant drought. However, the ownership commitee has coupled this financial investment in competitiveness with poor upper management decisions (like the hiring of Minnesota Twins re-treads) serving to hamper, no torpedo, the fans' hopes of a World Series appearance. The Wrigley-faithful, above average in fan-intelligence by most accounts, cannot stomach such an obvious failure in the plan to bring a historic moment to their favorite environ, and their patience has worn off. What is there for a fan to do, who pays the salaries but is shuttered from the decision making? Aside from public protests outside the front gates (already been done) about all the thinking fan can do is boo, boo his little tail off, boo the lineup, boo the errors, boo the manager, boo the pitchers, and litter the field. To do otherwise is offering tacit approval of Andy MacPhail on down by virtue of each man's 100 bucks for the experience watching a lousy team at the greatest ballpark.

 

 

Something like that.

[Backtobanks]

my response

 

 

Dear Mr. Nightengale,

I am deeply disturbed by your recent article titled “Baker Endures as Cubs’ Expectations Fall Short.” Foremost, the stories of racism and hate mail disgust me. That Baker, Jones, Patterson, Hawkins and others had to endure the ignorance of these pathetic, small-minded people is upsetting. I hope these men understand that this racism is not representative of Cub fans.

 

Unfortunately, this seems to be the message of your article. By mixing fan frustration with losing with racism, you are implying that Cub fans, tired of losing, are becoming racist and spreading hate. This is far from the truth. Cub fans are tired of poor performance by players of any race, tired of poor managerial decisions, and tired of the lack of direction of the team. Their frustration is directed at those responsible for the team’s play – primarily the players, the manager and the general manager. The race of those responsible is not a factor in this frustration.

 

Unfortunately, racism still exists throughout the United States and the World. But let’s be clear that racists are racists due to their own ignorance and social failings and not as the result of a baseball team’s failings. The majority of Cub fans have suffered enough and do not deserve to be unfairly labeled as racist due to the actions of a few individuals who may or may not be fans and who certainly are not respected by the majority of Cub fans.

 

This article was brought to my attention on an internet chat site for Cubs fans (NSBB.com). The site is populated by several thousand Cub fans from different backgrounds, from different areas, and of frequently differing opinions. One thing we all agree is that we are tired of Cubs futility. For a better understanding of the feelings of Cub fans, I would like to invite you to visit the site. Certainly there are racists at the site, but they are not tolerated.

 

Finally, I have to ask – how do you produce the facts in your article? They are not correct. The Cubs had a 0.5 game lead over San Francisco and 2.5 over Houston for the wildcard with 8 games to play in 2004. This information and tons more is available at baseballreference.com – a great resource. Any well-versed fan understands that the downfall of the Cubs began not with the Bartman incident – a media creation to add to the folklore of the Cubs failings – but with an Alex Gonzalez error three batters later on a groundball that should have been an inning ending double play – with the Cubs leading 3-1. Nevertheless optimism persisted into 2004 and the Cubs were well positioned to claim the wildcard until a Victor Diaz three run homer on September 25 at Shea Stadium. The homerun came off Latroy Hawkins and magnified his high profile failings in what was a very good season for Hawkins. The other two runners were on board due to Dempster walks, by the way.

 

I don’t think we need to look any further than that to find the beginnings of the current negativity surrounding the team and the dislike for Mr. Hawkins. Unfortunately this negativity seems to empower the ignorant. They do not represent the rest of us.

 

Sincerely,

Juan Sorensen

Cub fan in Davis, California

 

Well written and you might remind him that the Cubs are the team that honors "Mr. Cub" Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Sammy Sosa until he became a total jerk, Fergie Jenkins, etc. Racism certainly exists everywhere in America, but the race card is usually played when things are going bad for the person playing the card. Too often the race card is played as an excuse for incompetence.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's an excellent point...besides Sandberg, I think it's safe to say that the most beloved Cubs players, at least out of those still with us, are Ernie Banks and Billy Williams. Obviously, there are racist "fans" out there, but that article felt a little too close to being a blanket condemnation of the city and the fanbase.

[fromthestretch]

That's an excellent point...besides Sandberg, I think it's safe to say that the most beloved Cubs players, at least out of those still with us, are Ernie Banks and Billy Williams. Obviously, there are racist "fans" out there, but that article felt a little too close to being a blanket condemnation of the city and the fanbase.

 

I remember Dawson and Dunston being well received by the fans, as well.