Dusty and Pitcher Abuse

[JGalt73]

Team Ranking of Total Pitcher Abuse Points during Dusty's "legacy":

 

1993 - SFN #28

1994 - SFN #28

1995 - SFN #22

1996 - SFN #21

1997 - SFN #9

1998 - SFN #27

1999 - SFN #2

2000 - SFN #1

2001 - SFN #3

2002 - SFN #1 (CHN #9)

2003 - CHN #1 (SFN #13)

2004 - CHN #4 (SFN #2)

2005 - CHN #2 (SFN #3)

 

Dusty's clubs have finished in the top 4 in pitcher abuse points for the past 7 years.

[abuck1220]

i didn't watch the game tonight, but i'm sure glad to see zambrano walked seven on his way to a 120 pitch evening in this ever-important game.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Team Ranking of Total Pitcher Abuse Points during Dusty's "legacy":

 

1993 - SFN #28

1994 - SFN #28

1995 - SFN #22

1996 - SFN #21

1997 - SFN #9

1998 - SFN #27

1999 - SFN #2

2000 - SFN #1

2001 - SFN #3

2002 - SFN #1 (CHN #9)

2003 - CHN #1 (SFN #13)

2004 - CHN #4 (SFN #2)

2005 - CHN #2 (SFN #3)

 

Dusty's clubs have finished in the top 4 in pitcher abuse points for the past 7 years.

 

Brian Sabean replaces Dusty with Felipe Alou. He must have a fondness for pitcher abusers.

[CuseCubFan69]

Team Ranking of Total Pitcher Abuse Points during Dusty's "legacy":

 

1993 - SFN #28

1994 - SFN #28

1995 - SFN #22

1996 - SFN #21

1997 - SFN #9

1998 - SFN #27

1999 - SFN #2

2000 - SFN #1

2001 - SFN #3

2002 - SFN #1 (CHN #9)

2003 - CHN #1 (SFN #13)

2004 - CHN #4 (SFN #2)

2005 - CHN #2 (SFN #3)

 

Dusty's clubs have finished in the top 4 in pitcher abuse points for the past 7 years.

 

Brian Sabean replaces Dusty with Felipe Alou. He must have a fondness for pitcher abusers.

 

Old School Dudes still reliving 1973.

[Jon]

It's okay. Dusty talks to Z in Spanish.

[abuck1220]

can't overwork the valuable bullpen arms of ohman, novoa and aardsma.

[NorthsideAvenger]

i didn't watch the game tonight, but i'm sure glad to see zambrano walked seven on his way to a 120 pitch evening in this ever-important game.

 

Come one dude, the Cubs have to stuff his resume with meaningless wins, so he can fool another team into giving him BIG money, dude,

[goonys evil twin]

 

Dusty's clubs have finished in the top 4 in pitcher abuse points for the past 7 years.

 

Brian Sabean replaces Dusty with Felipe Alou. He must have a fondness for pitcher abusers.

 

Sabean also doesn't build his team around very young pitchers. The combination of using young pitchers, building your entire team around those young pitchers, and allowing excessive abuse of those pitchers is a disaster waiting to happen. People who didn't have their heads stuck in the sand, or 1973, were well aware of this before Dusty was brought to Chicago.

[mhuber92211]

so the OK limit for Z would have been what? 100 pitches? Pulling him in the 6th? Regardless we are talking about an additional 20 freaking pitches. Lets not get all up in arms over 20 pitches when Z was throwing a good game. Let him pitch if he was being effective. His last 2 innings were the most effective he was all night.

[goonys evil twin]

so the OK limit for Z would have been what? 100 pitches? Pulling him in the 6th? Regardless we are talking about an additional 20 freaking pitches. Lets not get all up in arms over 20 pitches when Z was throwing a good game. Let him pitch if he was being effective. His last 2 innings were the most effective he was all night.

 

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not just 20 pitches in one games. It's 20 pitches when he was laboring, after he was spiked by a runner, during a stretch where he's been pitching poorly in a season when he's been extended every single game and struck in the elbow by a bat, and when he struggled a lot after the WBC.

[TheDude]

There are times Dusty doesn't get it, and in general it is a warning flag that Dusty will ride all arms the same.

 

Zambrano at 120 pitches shouldn't bother anyone, but I worry about Marmol, Guzman, Prior, and Marshall at that count.

 

You want these guys to build up arm strength and reliably get into 6th every game, but they can't do it in one year. Zambrano is only guy on the staff that has proven he can handle that level of pitch count.

[TheDude]

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not just 20 pitches in one games. It's 20 pitches when he was laboring, after he was spiked by a runner, during a stretch where he's been pitching poorly in a season when he's been extended every single game and struck in the elbow by a bat, and when he struggled a lot after the WBC.

 

I didn't Zambrano laboring at all. He looked as strong in the 7th and 8th as in the 1st.

[TruffleShuffle]

Hey, at least the Cubs are ranked near the top of the league in something.

[goonys evil twin]

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not just 20 pitches in one games. It's 20 pitches when he was laboring, after he was spiked by a runner, during a stretch where he's been pitching poorly in a season when he's been extended every single game and struck in the elbow by a bat, and when he struggled a lot after the WBC.

 

I didn't Zambrano laboring at all. He looked as strong in the 7th and 8th as in the 1st.

 

He was laboring all game, getting into and out of jams. It wasn't an easy 120 pitches, it was a very difficult, very erratic 120, that involved mid game tightening and getting banged up physically.

[goonys evil twin]

You want these guys to build up arm strength and reliably get into 6th every game, but they can't do it in one year. Zambrano is only guy on the staff that has proven he can handle that level of pitch count.

 

Are you claiming this is about building up Z's arm strength? That's not even close to the issue. Z's arm strength is built up, Dusty's been pushing him to the same limit nearly every outing of every year he's been able to abuse him.

[abuck1220]

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not just 20 pitches in one games. It's 20 pitches when he was laboring, after he was spiked by a runner, during a stretch where he's been pitching poorly in a season when he's been extended every single game and struck in the elbow by a bat, and when he struggled a lot after the WBC.

 

I didn't Zambrano laboring at all. He looked as strong in the 7th and 8th as in the 1st.

 

seven walks and a hit batter tell me that there was some laboring.

[badgercub]

"He's still getting better, still learning. He's going to be something. … He's not even close [to being a finished product]. He's only 24 years old."

 

---Quote from Dusty Baker.

 

Unfortunately for Z Dusty has been riding him so hard for the last 3 years that there is a good possibility that Z will suffer a major arm injury before he ever reaches his full potential. And for those of you who say "big deal, it was only an extra 20 pitches" Think about how many times Dusty leaves him in for an "extra 20 pitches" this is a cumulative effect and has been going on for 3 years. I am extremely worried as to how Dusty is ruining a guy with incredible stamina and Cy Young potential on a season that is in the tank.

[CuseCubFan69]

"He's still getting better, still learning. He's going to be something. … He's not even close [to being a finished product]. He's only 24 years old."

 

---Quote from Dusty Baker.

 

Unfortunately for Z Dusty has been riding him so hard for the last 3 years that there is a good possibility that Z will suffer a major arm injury before he ever reaches his full potential. And for those of you who say "big deal, it was only an extra 20 pitches" Think about how many times Dusty leaves him in for an "extra 20 pitches" this is a cumulative effect and has been going on for 3 years. I am extremely worried as to how Dusty is ruining a guy with incredible stamina and Cy Young potential on a season that is in the tank.

 

Don't worry Dusty, Z will be finished soon enough.

[goonys evil twin]

"He's still getting better, still learning. He's going to be something. … He's not even close [to being a finished product]. He's only 24 years old."

 

---Quote from Dusty Baker.

 

Unfortunately for Z Dusty has been riding him so hard for the last 3 years that there is a good possibility that Z will suffer a major arm injury before he ever reaches his full potential. And for those of you who say "big deal, it was only an extra 20 pitches" Think about how many times Dusty leaves him in for an "extra 20 pitches" this is a cumulative effect and has been going on for 3 years.

 

It's almost a full 4 years, and already well over 800 innings of Dusty time. And he's 25 now. His ERA+ peaked in 2004 at 23, I'm guessing it will not be back to that level this season. He might return to that level someday, but with Dusty and Larry in his corner, the odds aren't great.

[CubinNY]

 

Zambrano at 120 pitches shouldn't bother anyone, but I worry about.

 

Why do you write that? Is it because he is the proverbal horse?

 

Even a Clidesdale will break down if it is driven too hard.

[USSoccer]

"He's still getting better, still learning. He's going to be something. … He's not even close [to being a finished product]. He's only 24 years old."

 

---Quote from Dusty Baker.

 

Unfortunately for Z Dusty has been riding him so hard for the last 3 years that there is a good possibility that Z will suffer a major arm injury before he ever reaches his full potential. And for those of you who say "big deal, it was only an extra 20 pitches" Think about how many times Dusty leaves him in for an "extra 20 pitches" this is a cumulative effect and has been going on for 3 years. I am extremely worried as to how Dusty is ruining a guy with incredible stamina and Cy Young potential on a season that is in the tank.

 

Is it 26 straight starts over 100 pitches, and 7 over 120 this season?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is it 26 straight starts over 100 pitches, and 7 over 120 this season?

 

Z can throw over 100 pitches as many times as he wants as far as I'm concerned. It's the amount of times he gets to 115 and 120 that concern me.

[baseball7897]

If you people complain about Zambrano throwing over 110 pitches a start, what are you going to say about Schmidt?

[CubColtPacer]

Is it 26 straight starts over 100 pitches, and 7 over 120 this season?

 

Z can throw over 100 pitches as many times as he wants as far as I'm concerned. It's the amount of times he gets to 115 and 120 that concern me.

 

That's how I feel as well-from his numbers, he gets tired between 106-120 pitches, so I'm fine with him at 100-but I don't want him going over 110 all thta often.

[USSoccer]

If you people complain about Zambrano throwing over 110 pitches a start, what are you going to say about Schmidt?

 

Jason Schmidt has battled injury and relative ineffectiveness off and on for a few years now thanks to being used like a Kleenex in November. I'd hope we didn't sign him to big money for that reason-he's pretty erratic.

 

And also, Schmidt is much, much older than Z. Z needs to be protected a little, especially when we're 18 games under .500 in mid-August.