Who's our #2 pitcher next year???

[neely crenshaw]

if we are going to seriously try to contend we must sign a real live stud to back z. we can not hope on a live arm or a comeback. and yes jim you will have to overpay to get your guy...but you have to do it! we will be without maddux and wood 's money. we have more than enough to sign a stud and then still get someone like wolf. i would niot mind a gamble on the second guy, as we will be overpaying for the first. we really have to start thinking that prior may never be himself again. he is no where near a no. 2 and is probably only ahead of hill right now in the rotation. we simply can not run out a 95 mil dollar payroll with 4questions on the staff and 4 questions in the field.

i would like zito.

that would give us:

zambrano

zito

wolf/padilla

prior/marmol

marshall

 

if you sign zito and another pitcher it is then time to package murton,hill,guzman or marmol, cedeno or isturis for some serious lineup help.

it simply would not make sense to sign 2 free agents for at least 3 years probably 4 and to keep 3 prospects that are pretty much ready to go. add in that you have miller still rehabbing cheaply. that's pretty much why i don't think hendry will sign a stud unless they deal prior.

perhaps we could package 2 pitchers and a ss for tejada.

 

my guess is... we piss away all the value we have in the minors end up giving away guzman,marmol and hill(and murton and cedeno) in two years, and only sign someone like meche for too much and hope prior and miller are healthy.

[JeffH]

Schmidt, please.

[c3ci1]

Wasn't Rusch the game 2 starter this season?

 

editing after confirming - featured the 1st Arroyo hr v Rusch

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Padilla or Wolf would be interesting as a middle guy. Wolf would give us two lefties in the rotation if Marshall is there next year, and I expect him to be.

 

I am of the opinion that Prior will be counted on to be the #2 behind Z. Should he be is the question. I mean his bad luck has to change sometime dosent it.

 

I would think Marmol would be an electric #5 for us. He goes into the 5th almost every start and has good stuff. Plus with all the walks compare him to all the other #5's in the league. He is still better than most.

 

I could live with this rotation.

 

1) Zambrano RHP

2) Prior RHP

3)Padillia RHP / Wolf LHP

4) Marshall LHP

5) Marmol RHP

 

If we do end up with Wolf then I think you flip Marmol and Marshall just to keep the other teams from seeing back to back lefties.

 

Take the money you dont spend on the big name free agent pitcher and get Lee to play LF. I personally take a few young pitchers and try to find another corner OF power bat in a trade. Or take a risk and get Sheffield for RF if Baker is rehired because "he can handle vets".

 

Edited to add the last thought.

[FergieJ31]

Schmidt, please.

 

Seconded. Schmidt is the only FA pitcher I have any man-love for.

[RationalSoxFan]

I really can't see Schmidt in a Cub uniform. They'll be deadset on getting a pitcher who is healthy, due to the storm of criticism they've taken for Wood and Prior.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I believe the grizzled vet, Woody Williams is available.

[NCCubFan]

Prior is guranteed to start the season on the DL.

No he isn't. He didn't start the season on the DL in either 2002 or 2003.

[Laura]

Schmidt, please.

 

Indeed.

 

 

Wasn't Rusch the game 2 starter this season?

 

editing after confirming - featured the 1st Arroyo hr v Rusch

 

Yes, but that was because of the staggered off-days (away - offday - away - offday - home - home - home). That allowed them to use a 4-man and pitch Z twice in the first four games, 3x in the first 8.

 

 

eta: 8, not 7 I think

[mg420]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

[C.C.]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

There is talent in the pitching department, but you still need hitting...

[mg420]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

There is talent in the pitching department, but you still need hitting...

agreed but there is some talent there for next year too. they have a core of aram, lee, barrett & jones. it looks like pierre might be re-signed soon due to his extended offensive surge and i hope they haven't given up on murton yet. if izzy can hit .280 + with a .750 ops and cedeno & fontenot can handle 2b.

[E.J.]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

Miller is topping out in the low 80's during his rehab stints. He's not going to be an option next year.

[Magnetic Curses]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

There is talent in the pitching department, but you still need hitting...

agreed but there is some talent there for next year too. they have a core of aram, lee, barrett & jones. it looks like pierre might be re-signed soon due to his extended offensive surge and i hope they haven't given up on murton yet. if izzy can hit .280 + with a .750 ops and cedeno & fontenot can handle 2b.

 

what in the world would lead you to believe that he'll be anywhere near .750 when his career high is .711 and every other year he's been under .700? i might also add that he has had back-to-back seasons posting a sub-.600 OPS.

 

i reiterate, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's in any lineup will kill said lineup. a batting order consists of 9 hitters, you cannot put 4 dead bats out there and expect to score any runs.

 

i'd be interested to find out if it's ever been done before, you know, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's on a playoff team. the pitching would definitely have to be superb, which i won't hold my breath on.

 

EDIT: the astros made the world series last year with 3: taveras, burke, and everett. you know, the astros of the 3.51 team era.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Stannis

[mg420]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

Miller is topping out in the low 80's during his rehab stints. He's not going to be an option next year.

 

actually his velocity is getting better:

 

"Miller allowed three hits and no walks, striking out five in the no-decision Monday. He threw 37 of 53 pitches for strikes and reached a top velocity of 88 mph. He pitched mostly in the mid-80s."

 

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/080106/CHI_BAI09OC6.076.shtml

[mg420]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

There is talent in the pitching department, but you still need hitting...

agreed but there is some talent there for next year too. they have a core of aram, lee, barrett & jones. it looks like pierre might be re-signed soon due to his extended offensive surge and i hope they haven't given up on murton yet. if izzy can hit .280 + with a .750 ops and cedeno & fontenot can handle 2b.

 

what in the world would lead you to believe that he'll be anywhere near .750 when his career high is .711 and every other year he's been under .700? i might also add that he has had back-to-back seasons posting a sub-.600 OPS.

 

i reiterate, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's in any lineup will kill said lineup. a batting order consists of 9 hitters, you cannot put 4 dead bats out there and expect to score any runs.

 

i'd be interested to find out if it's ever been done before, you know, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's on a playoff team. the pitching would definitely have to be superb, which i won't hold my breath on.

 

EDIT: the astros made the world series last year with 3: taveras, burke, and everett. you know, the astros of the 3.51 team era.

 

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

[goonys evil twin]

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

 

They are in first place, in their division. They aren't a contender by any stretch. The AL west is weak and they are on pace to win it with just 85 wins. The Cubs better not do anything with the hopes of winning just 85.

 

You act as if the low OPS is the reason they are in first. The Cubs need to try and build a potential 100 win team. Their payroll demands it, and allows for such a goal. They should try and build the best team possible, not accept crap just because it's there.

[CubColtPacer]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

There is talent in the pitching department, but you still need hitting...

agreed but there is some talent there for next year too. they have a core of aram, lee, barrett & jones. it looks like pierre might be re-signed soon due to his extended offensive surge and i hope they haven't given up on murton yet. if izzy can hit .280 + with a .750 ops and cedeno & fontenot can handle 2b.

 

what in the world would lead you to believe that he'll be anywhere near .750 when his career high is .711 and every other year he's been under .700? i might also add that he has had back-to-back seasons posting a sub-.600 OPS.

 

i reiterate, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's in any lineup will kill said lineup. a batting order consists of 9 hitters, you cannot put 4 dead bats out there and expect to score any runs.

 

i'd be interested to find out if it's ever been done before, you know, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's on a playoff team. the pitching would definitely have to be superb, which i won't hold my breath on.

 

EDIT: the astros made the world series last year with 3: taveras, burke, and everett. you know, the astros of the 3.51 team era.

 

That's true-there are some other examples of that. The 2002 Braves had plenty of sub .700 OPS's-now, these Braves had several different starters (they only had 5 people get over 350 at-bats) but 1 of those 5 and 4 others with at least 200 at-bats had under .700 (2 of those can be combined though-Javy and Blanco both had under .700 from the catcher position). Houston just about did it in 2004. The Cardinals also have 3 this year (Eckstein, Molina, and Miles). It's actually not all that uncommon-and just about every team I looked at had 2 under .700 (I looked at all the playoff teams that were not the Red Sox or Yankees).

 

Reason for Edit: Typo on one of the first numbers.

[mg420]

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

 

They are in first place, in their division. They aren't a contender by any stretch. The AL west is weak and they are on pace to win it with just 85 wins. The Cubs better not do anything with the hopes of winning just 85.

 

You act as if the low OPS is the reason they are in first. The Cubs need to try and build a potential 100 win team. Their payroll demands it, and allows for such a goal. They should try and build the best team possible, not accept crap just because it's there.

 

guys like barrett, jones and dempster were called "crap" by many people here when they were signed or traded for. i even recall that many people were lamenting trading choi for lee. look at what a bust furcal has been in La and has anyone looked what bradley & giles are doing btw? not all that glitters is gold.

[Magnetic Curses]

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

 

They are in first place, in their division. They aren't a contender by any stretch. The AL west is weak and they are on pace to win it with just 85 wins. The Cubs better not do anything with the hopes of winning just 85.

 

You act as if the low OPS is the reason they are in first. The Cubs need to try and build a potential 100 win team. Their payroll demands it, and allows for such a goal. They should try and build the best team possible, not accept crap just because it's there.

 

guys like barrett, jones and dempster were called "crap" by many people here when they were signed or traded for. i even recall that many people were lamenting trading choi for lee. look at what a bust furcal has been in La and has anyone looked what bradley & giles are doing btw? not all that glitters is gold.

 

giles is not a glittering player, he is valuable under the radar.

[goonys evil twin]

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

 

They are in first place, in their division. They aren't a contender by any stretch. The AL west is weak and they are on pace to win it with just 85 wins. The Cubs better not do anything with the hopes of winning just 85.

 

You act as if the low OPS is the reason they are in first. The Cubs need to try and build a potential 100 win team. Their payroll demands it, and allows for such a goal. They should try and build the best team possible, not accept crap just because it's there.

 

guys like barrett, jones and dempster were called "crap" by many people here when they were signed or traded for. i even recall that many people were lamenting trading choi for lee. look at what a bust furcal has been in La and has anyone looked what bradley & giles are doing btw? not all that glitters is gold.

 

What does any of this have to do with trying to win with sub 700 OPS players? Barrett has proved a lot of people wrong. Jones has done pretty much what was expected, which is make a ton of outs and hit for a little power. Dempster has done what I thought he would. He sucked as a starter candidate, but was a decent reliever, with a lot of inconsistencies.

 

For what it's worth, the team has gotten worse since they got Lee. Lee proved me wrong by taking a big leap in his late 20's, but because of Hendry's inefficient roster moves, they couldn't even take advantage of a huge unexpected improvement.

[Magnetic Curses]

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

 

They are in first place, in their division. They aren't a contender by any stretch. The AL west is weak and they are on pace to win it with just 85 wins. The Cubs better not do anything with the hopes of winning just 85.

 

You act as if the low OPS is the reason they are in first. The Cubs need to try and build a potential 100 win team. Their payroll demands it, and allows for such a goal. They should try and build the best team possible, not accept crap just because it's there.

 

guys like barrett, jones and dempster were called "crap" by many people here when they were signed or traded for. i even recall that many people were lamenting trading choi for lee. look at what a bust furcal has been in La and has anyone looked what bradley & giles are doing btw? not all that glitters is gold.

 

do the cubs suck? because that's what it looks like to me. hendry has put together a freaking lemon of a baseball team.

 

he's capped it off by trading for the "glittering" cesar izturis, a horrendously overvalued, overapid, underperforming player.

[UK1679666180]

That's true-there are some other examples of that. The 2002 Braves had plenty of sub .700 OPS's-now, these Braves had several different starters (they only had 5 people get over 350 at-bats) but 1 of those 5 and 4 others with at least 200 at-bats had under .700 (2 of those can be combined though-Javy and Blanco both had under .700 from the catcher position). Houston just about did it in 2004. The Cardinals also have 3 this year (Eckstein, Molina, and Miles). It's actually not all that uncommon-and just about every team I looked at had 2 under .700 (I looked at all the playoff teams that were not the Red Sox or Yankees).

 

2 under .700 isn't bad for any team. Including Eckstein into that isn't fair either given his role is to get on base and he does that pretty well, not ideal but good enough to not become a weakness.

 

But, if have players with weak OBPs (top of the order hitters) and weak OPS (btm of the order) there has to be extreme compensation by having a great 3-4-5-6. From a cost standpoint, it's more difficult to obtain a great 3-4-5-6 than a balanced lineup.

[mg420]

i hope the cubs forget about free agents & go young next year ala detroit. with guys like marmol, marshall, hill, mateo & maybe guzman to go along with z & hope fully prior & miller, there is plenty of talent on the roster already.

 

There is talent in the pitching department, but you still need hitting...

agreed but there is some talent there for next year too. they have a core of aram, lee, barrett & jones. it looks like pierre might be re-signed soon due to his extended offensive surge and i hope they haven't given up on murton yet. if izzy can hit .280 + with a .750 ops and cedeno & fontenot can handle 2b.

 

what in the world would lead you to believe that he'll be anywhere near .750 when his career high is .711 and every other year he's been under .700? i might also add that he has had back-to-back seasons posting a sub-.600 OPS.

 

i reiterate, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's in any lineup will kill said lineup. a batting order consists of 9 hitters, you cannot put 4 dead bats out there and expect to score any runs.

 

i'd be interested to find out if it's ever been done before, you know, 3 players with sub-.700 OPS's on a playoff team. the pitching would definitely have to be superb, which i won't hold my breath on.

 

EDIT: the astros made the world series last year with 3: taveras, burke, and everett. you know, the astros of the 3.51 team era.

[mg420]

oakland hasnt won anything yet this year but i think you should look at some of their ops's & are in 1st place. they have at least 5 starters with ops's less than .740 and several have less than .700.

 

They are in first place, in their division. They aren't a contender by any stretch. The AL west is weak and they are on pace to win it with just 85 wins. The Cubs better not do anything with the hopes of winning just 85.

 

You act as if the low OPS is the reason they are in first. The Cubs need to try and build a potential 100 win team. Their payroll demands it, and allows for such a goal. They should try and build the best team possible, not accept crap just because it's there.

 

guys like barrett, jones and dempster were called "crap" by many people here when they were signed or traded for. i even recall that many people were lamenting trading choi for lee. look at what a bust furcal has been in La and has anyone looked what bradley & giles are doing btw? not all that glitters is gold.

 

giles is not a glittering player, he is valuable under the radar.

 

he was certainly made out to be a must have at any cost by several people on this board along with bradley.