A Comparison

[Backtobanks]

I think everyone needs to calm down about the Maddux-Izturis trade and give him a chance to show whether he is the long-time answer at SS. Comparing him to 2 other outstanding defensive/lousy offensive shortstops at 26 years old might offer some hope.

 

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

@ 30 years old .276 BA and .355 OBP

@ 31 " " .280 " and .376 "

@ 32 " " .303 " and .392 "

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

@ 29 " " .297 " and .362 "

@ 30 " " .280 " and .347 "

@ 31 " " .288 " and .358 "

@ 32 " " .333 " and .397 "

@ 33 " " .287 " and .377 "

 

Let's give him a chance and see what happens.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How many hundreds of kids have tried to play SS in the majors in the past 20 years? How many of those kids turned out like Ozzie or Omar? I'll play the odds.

[fromthestretch]

I think everyone needs to calm down about the Maddux-Izturis trade and give him a chance to show whether he is the long-time answer at SS. Comparing him to 2 other outstanding defensive/lousy offensive shortstops at 26 years old might offer some hope.

 

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

@ 30 years old .276 BA and .355 OBP

@ 31 " " .280 " and .376 "

@ 32 " " .303 " and .392 "

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

@ 29 " " .297 " and .362 "

@ 30 " " .280 " and .347 "

@ 31 " " .288 " and .358 "

@ 32 " " .333 " and .397 "

@ 33 " " .287 " and .377 "

 

Let's give him a chance and see what happens.

 

While Vizquel might be comparable, Smith actually had a few seasons where he drew a fair number of walks early in his career when he wasn't hitting for any kind of average.

[Backtobanks]

How many hundreds of kids have tried to play SS in the majors in the past 20 years? How many of those kids turned out like Ozzie or Omar? I'll play the odds.

 

Please notice that I didn't predict that he would end up like Ozzie or Omar, it's just that they wouldn't have ended up that successful if everyone gave up on them with their pitiful offensive numbers at 26 years of age. I don't see the Cubs as World Series champs in 2007, so I say give him the rest of this year and all of next and then reassess the situation.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How many hundreds of kids have tried to play SS in the majors in the past 20 years? How many of those kids turned out like Ozzie or Omar? I'll play the odds.

 

Please notice that I didn't predict that he would end up like Ozzie or Omar, it's just that they wouldn't have ended up that successful if everyone gave up on them with their pitiful offensive numbers at 26 years of age. I don't see the Cubs as World Series champs in 2007, so I say give him the rest of this year and all of next and then reassess the situation.

 

I understand that you didn't predict he would. I am choosing to remain grounded and not expect too much improvement from what we have.

[CUBZ99]

How many hundreds of kids have tried to play SS in the majors in the past 20 years? How many of those kids turned out like Ozzie or Omar? I'll play the odds.

 

Please notice that I didn't predict that he would end up like Ozzie or Omar, it's just that they wouldn't have ended up that successful if everyone gave up on them with their pitiful offensive numbers at 26 years of age. I don't see the Cubs as World Series champs in 2007, so I say give him the rest of this year and all of next and then reassess the situation.

 

Bob Brenly made this exact same comparison during the game last night. He seems to believe that SS is one of the most demanding defensive positions and that quality young SS sometimes struggle with the bat before the light goes on. I am going to give Izturis the benefit of the doubt and hope that Bob's theory holds water.

 

For now Izturis is more than qualified to handle the position defensively and simply because of his age I would much rather see him getting the bulk of the playing time over Neifi. Izturis' last full season was respectable. It is possible that when he is healthy again his numbers will continue to improve.

[TruffleShuffle]

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

 

Yes, so even though their OBPs weren't good, they still had a significantly better IsoD (more patience) than Izturis at age 26.

[rawaction]

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

 

Yes, so even though their OBPs weren't good, they still had a significantly better IsoD (more patience) than Izturis at age 26.

 

Exactly. Both had more patience than Izturis at this age, which allowed them to progress as hitters. If Izturis doesn't learn how to take a walk, he will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, be a consistently good player.

[soccer10k]

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

 

Yes, so even though their OBPs weren't good, they still had a significantly better IsoD (more patience) than Izturis at age 26.

 

That was the first thing I thought as well when I saw the numbers.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Bob Brenly made this exact same comparison during the game last night. He seems to believe that SS is one of the most demanding defensive positions and that quality young SS sometimes struggle with the bat before the light goes on. I am going to give Izturis the benefit of the doubt and hope that Bob's theory holds water.

 

Then why give up on the cheaper Cedeno?

[NorthsideAvenger]

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

 

Yes, so even though their OBPs weren't good, they still had a significantly better IsoD (more patience) than Izturis at age 26.

 

Exactly. Both had more patience than Izturis at this age, which allowed them to progress as hitters. If Izturis doesn't learn how to take a walk, he will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, be a consistently good player.

 

Which is why...after the season....have Cesar and Ronny go visit Tony Gwynn and see if they can pick up a few tricks to hitting, such as....putting the wooden piece instrument on the white baseball, for instance. Or that just because the pitcher throws say ball, doesn't mean you have to swing.

 

But none of the younger players on the Cubs are going to improve, unless they bring in coaches that DEMANDS plate zone judgment, something that Baker has a disdain for.

[Outshined_One]

Smith also played in a dead ball era. While his offensive numbers look rather anemic to the modern eye, back then they stacked up really well with other hitters of that time.

[CubColtPacer]

Ozzie Smith @ 26 years old .222 BA and .294 OBP.

 

Omar Visquel @ 26 years old .255 BA and .319 OBP

 

Yes, so even though their OBPs weren't good, they still had a significantly better IsoD (more patience) than Izturis at age 26.

 

Exactly. Both had more patience than Izturis at this age, which allowed them to progress as hitters. If Izturis doesn't learn how to take a walk, he will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, be a consistently good player.

 

Which is why...after the season....have Cesar and Ronny go visit Tony Gwynn and see if they can pick up a few tricks to hitting, such as....putting the wooden piece instrument on the white baseball, for instance. Or that just because the pitcher throws say ball, doesn't mean you have to swing.

 

But none of the younger players on the Cubs are going to improve, unless they bring in coaches that DEMANDS plate zone judgment, something that Baker has a disdain for.

 

I understand completely what you mean-but if you want patience and taking walks, you might not want Gwynn. Most of his years had about as many BB's as Izturis's last healthy year. I think he certainly could teach them better though how to hit a pitch and drive it into the gap, so that's still a very good idea.

[neely crenshaw]

maddux was my favorite player- i think he did a good job here...injuries just made expectations go up. if wood and prior win 18-20 each behind z's work..maddux 14-15 wins is awesome..however wood and prior haven't won 10 combine in 2 seasons making maddux our defacto no 2..so 14 wins is not awesome. that being said he was gone at the end of the season. we were not going to contend even if maddux went undefeated in the 2nd half. it is/was time for hill and guzman to finsih the year with marshall and marmol. it would be a disservice for us to put maddux in the pen so he had to be dealt. i thought if we got a decent prospect for him that would be good. to get even a border line major league player is a bonus. isturis may be good or he may be a bust..but it won't cost mush to find out. if he shows something he opens up a trade market for either he or cedeno..

we are so far down that every little bit helps, is isturis the answer...no but if it helps get someone else who is. that is much better than watching maddux pitch(great or poorly) for the next 3 months on a terrible, terrible team and then getting 0 for him.

the problem is that in hendry's world this maybe the only ofensive move we need...

[gflore34]

Heard an interview of Izturis by Boers and Berstein Tuesday afternoon, they asked him what's his job batting second. I don't if Izturis' reply was playing to Boers and Berstein or not but, he mentioned taking pitches and getting on base ahead of Lee, Ramirez and Barret and moving runners along. At the very least, he seems to have some idea of a #2 hitter' job, whether or not he'll be able to accomplish it remains to be seen.

[neely crenshaw]

well we have 50+ games to find out!

[NCCubFan]

Heard an interview of Izturis by Boers and Berstein Tuesday afternoon, they asked him what's his job batting second. I don't if Izturis' reply was playing to Boers and Berstein or not but, he mentioned taking pitches and getting on base ahead of Lee, Ramirez and Barret and moving runners along. At the very least, he seems to have some idea of a #2 hitter' job, whether or not he'll be able to accomplish it remains to be seen.

There's plenty of time for Baker and Clines to show him the foolishness of his thinking. :D