Carlos Lee Rejects Extension/Traded to Rangers

[jjgman21]

I knew they were gonna be sellers, but I had to throw the idea out there. But someone beat me to it.

 

I don't think this can be viewed as them being sellers. the did bring in a legit major league closer and an established (not great, established) outfield bat.

 

when looking at what they gave up they look like sellers. when looking at what they brought in, they look like buyers. on balance, they improved their team, exactly what a certain GM 90 miles south should be doing.

[Buford T Justice]

I knew they were gonna be sellers, but I had to throw the idea out there. But someone beat me to it.

 

I don't think this can be viewed as them being sellers. the did bring in a legit major league closer and an established (not great, established) outfield bat.

 

when looking at what they gave up they look like sellers. when looking at what they brought in, they look like buyers. on balance, they improved their team, exactly what a certain GM 90 miles south should be doing.

 

Agreed!!

[jjgman21]

Doesnt seem to me Clark has been helping them out too much.

 

getting on base 2 out of every 5 times he steps to the plate is just the sort of non-help the Cubs need.

[Elrhino]

I think its a great deal for the Rangers. Laynce Nix has pretty much washed up as a prospect and was struggling in AAA, Mench has been a disappointment and CoCo Cordero lost his closing job and has a $6 million option pickup in the offseason. And they got a very good AAA player in return in Nelson Cruz (and a PTBNL on the way). They got a .900 OPS corner outfielder for some throwaway pieces and didn't have to give up Danks or Diamond.

 

Unless there are more trades to come, it looks like the Brewers sold low because Melvin has a bias towards some of his former Rangers prospects. They shouldn't have traded Carlos Lee without getting a top pitching prospect in return.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Elrhino

[RynoRules]

Wow, good deal for the Brewers if true.

 

Agreed.

 

Very goo deal for the Brew Crew. Nice job by whats-his-name.

[Buford T Justice]

Doesnt seem to me Clark has been helping them out too much.

 

getting on base 2 out of every 5 times he steps to the plate is just the sort of non-help the Cubs need.

 

If thats the case why was Yost benching him?

[jjgman21]

I think that is a good deal for the Brewer's too. They get some Major League talent in return that they can either use as trading chips or put into their lineup and they will free up the money they would have used to re sign Lee for what they desperately need ----- PITCHING.

 

with the Brewers supposedly in the running for Maddux, what does everyone think of Maddux for Clark and Mench? gives you OBP out of center and a right handed platoon with Jones in right.

 

then trade Pierre for a decent prospect or two.

 

this of course also assumes the Cubs aren't able to get a blue chipper from SD or LA for Maddux and that Maddux approves the move up north.

 

 

I don't think Maddux would accept a trade to the Brewers, as tempting as it may be to join his brother. Maddux, if traded, will go to a contender where he will have a shot to win a W.S.

 

so in other words, SD or nothing, which cripples the Cubs chances of getting anything good considerably. the Dodge-bones are farther out than the Brewers and sinking fast.

Edited July 28, 2006 by jjgman21

[JonnyRed]

From Rotoworld:

Is it pretty much a given that the Cubs will be the team to give him 5 years and $65 million? :x

 

I wouldn't bet on it. How many players in the Hendry era have received 5 year contracts (or longer)?

 

He was willing to go five years to get Furcal. Luckily the Dodgers saved us on that one.

 

Furcal would have been a huge upgrade over Cedeno.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY that Furcal is worth the $13M the Dodgers are paying him. The only substantial upside to him versus Cedeno is the additional 20 stolen bases. Plus Furcal has a bad glove. Even with Cedeno's inexperience, he has less errors than Furcal (16 vs. 20).

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm not so sure they're selling, more that they wanted to get ML talent for Lee because they realized he'd probably walk. As for Maddux for Mench, I would think that would cripple their offense considerably by losing Lee. Nix is not good.

 

knowing Hendry, this likely means a Maddux for Nix trade

 

:x

[badgercub]

Wow, good deal for the Brewers if true.

 

Agreed.

 

Very goo deal for the Brew Crew. Nice job by whats-his-name.

 

Doug Melvin, would be the GM. I can see Melvin turning around trading Cordero yet. Even though the Brewers closer (Turnbow) is struggling, I just see Melvin spinning Cordero to someone like the White Sox who are in desperate need for bullpen help, for prospects.

[JonnyRed]

I think that is a good deal for the Brewer's too. They get some Major League talent in return that they can either use as trading chips or put into their lineup and they will free up the money they would have used to re sign Lee for what they desperately need ----- PITCHING.

 

Doug Melvin has done a pretty good job so far in his tenure as GM in Milwaukee, props to him. Too bad the Cubs can't hire a GM with a little foresight. He traded Richie Sexon and now has 11 players on his roster that can be traced back to that deal, and now has turned Scotty Pods into Carlos Lee, into three more players.

 

I agree to a point, but who becomes the big bopper on the Brew Crew now? Every lineup needs 1-2 guys to produce the big numbers, and the Brewers just got rid of their guy. I'd be ticked if I was a Brewers fan that the team couldn't work a deal to get Lee signed long term.

[jjgman21]

Doesnt seem to me Clark has been helping them out too much.

 

getting on base 2 out of every 5 times he steps to the plate is just the sort of non-help the Cubs need.

 

If thats the case why was Yost benching him?

 

I don't know that he's been benched. he's been losing starts here and there to Gross all year.

 

Yost also has been failing to take advantage of his value by burying him in the 8 hole in half his starts.

[DCNashville]

Personally, I don't think this was a great deal for the Brewers at all. Nix is awful. Nelson Cruz>Nix. Mench is very middle-of-the-road, and Cordero is mediocre at best and is 31. I'm not a huge Lee fan, but I think they could have gotten so much more for him than this mediocre package of players.

[SantoForHOF]

well he just got traded to the Rangers

[badgercub]

I think that is a good deal for the Brewer's too. They get some Major League talent in return that they can either use as trading chips or put into their lineup and they will free up the money they would have used to re sign Lee for what they desperately need ----- PITCHING.

 

Doug Melvin has done a pretty good job so far in his tenure as GM in Milwaukee, props to him. Too bad the Cubs can't hire a GM with a little foresight. He traded Richie Sexon and now has 11 players on his roster that can be traced back to that deal, and now has turned Scotty Pods into Carlos Lee, into three more players.

 

I agree to a point, but who becomes the big bopper on the Brew Crew now? Every lineup needs 1-2 guys to produce the big numbers, and the Brewers just got rid of their guy. I'd be ticked if I was a Brewers fan that the team couldn't work a deal to get Lee signed long term.

 

I know some Brewer fans will feel that way, but the Brewers have some power with Fielder, Hall, Jenkins, Mench and I think Melvin is not done yet. If they would've signed Lee to an extension it would have crippled them in terms of payroll for next year. Melvin is building a pretty good system in the minors too, they are starting to develop some young guys and should be able to use some of those guys as chips.

[CUBZ99]

From Rotoworld:

Is it pretty much a given that the Cubs will be the team to give him 5 years and $65 million? :x

 

I wouldn't bet on it. How many players in the Hendry era have received 5 year contracts (or longer)?

 

He was willing to go five years to get Furcal. Luckily the Dodgers saved us on that one.

 

Furcal would have been a huge upgrade over Cedeno.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY that Furcal is worth the $13M the Dodgers are paying him. The only substantial upside to him versus Cedeno is the additional 20 stolen bases. Plus Furcal has a bad glove. Even with Cedeno's inexperience, he has less errors than Furcal (16 vs. 20).

 

So his ability to get on base frequently is of no value? I would take a .346 OBP out of the SS position any day of the week. Nobody said he was worth the $13M he is getting paid, but he would have been a lot better option over Cedeno. Quite franklyI don't understand why anyone would be so concerned over the payroll, when Hendry had more money to spend this year, he just chose not to spend it. Would you rather have $10-15 M going to the Tribune company's pocketbook or a Major League SS? To me its a no brainer.

[jjgman21]

I think that is a good deal for the Brewer's too. They get some Major League talent in return that they can either use as trading chips or put into their lineup and they will free up the money they would have used to re sign Lee for what they desperately need ----- PITCHING.

 

Doug Melvin has done a pretty good job so far in his tenure as GM in Milwaukee, props to him. Too bad the Cubs can't hire a GM with a little foresight. He traded Richie Sexon and now has 11 players on his roster that can be traced back to that deal, and now has turned Scotty Pods into Carlos Lee, into three more players.

 

I agree to a point, but who becomes the big bopper on the Brew Crew now? Every lineup needs 1-2 guys to produce the big numbers, and the Brewers just got rid of their guy. I'd be ticked if I was a Brewers fan that the team couldn't work a deal to get Lee signed long term.

 

I'd be slightly disappointed if I were a Brewers fan, but knowing Lee just rejected a fair offer would temper any disappointment. I don't like the sound of Abreu at 15M for two years, Lee at 15M for five years is absurd.

 

a platoon of Mench/Gross in left likely puts up the similar numbers as Lee

[Tracer Bullet]

I think that is a good deal for the Brewer's too. They get some Major League talent in return that they can either use as trading chips or put into their lineup and they will free up the money they would have used to re sign Lee for what they desperately need ----- PITCHING.

 

Doug Melvin has done a pretty good job so far in his tenure as GM in Milwaukee, props to him. Too bad the Cubs can't hire a GM with a little foresight. He traded Richie Sexon and now has 11 players on his roster that can be traced back to that deal, and now has turned Scotty Pods into Carlos Lee, into three more players.

 

I agree to a point, but who becomes the big bopper on the Brew Crew now? Every lineup needs 1-2 guys to produce the big numbers, and the Brewers just got rid of their guy. I'd be ticked if I was a Brewers fan that the team couldn't work a deal to get Lee signed long term.

 

Lee hasn't really been a great hitter until this year. I'm not sure if 1 year of greatness should garner more than the $48/4 deal they offered him (or even that much).

[Drew Doughty]

The Milwaukee Brewers traded slugger Carlos Lee to the Texas Rangers for Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix, reliever Francisco Cordero and minor league pitcher Julian Cordero, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

[CubColtPacer]

From Rotoworld:

Is it pretty much a given that the Cubs will be the team to give him 5 years and $65 million? :x

 

I wouldn't bet on it. How many players in the Hendry era have received 5 year contracts (or longer)?

 

He was willing to go five years to get Furcal. Luckily the Dodgers saved us on that one.

 

Furcal would have been a huge upgrade over Cedeno.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY that Furcal is worth the $13M the Dodgers are paying him. The only substantial upside to him versus Cedeno is the additional 20 stolen bases. Plus Furcal has a bad glove. Even with Cedeno's inexperience, he has less errors than Furcal (16 vs. 20).

 

So his ability to get on base frequently is of no value? I would take a .346 OBP out of the SS position any day of the week. Nobody said he was worth the $13M he is getting paid, but he would have been a lot better option over Cedeno. Quite franklyI don't understand why anyone would be so concerned over the payroll, when Hendry had more money to spend this year, he just chose not to spend it. Would you rather have $10-15 M going to the Tribune company's pocketbook or a Major League SS? To me its a no brainer.

 

Now he has the money to spend this next offseason though. If we signed Furcal, we'd have substantially less money to upgrade other positions. Sure, I'd rather have had Furcal over Cedeno-this year. I still would have had to have Furcal next year though, and then it would be hard to get both a big bat in the outfield and a starting pitcher. The Cubs have the money, and Hendry has a payroll number, but it's not unlimited-and giving Furcal 13 million really hurts us in future years.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

So his ability to get on base frequently is of no value? I would take a .346 OBP out of the SS position any day of the week. Nobody said he was worth the $13M he is getting paid, but he would have been a lot better option over Cedeno. Quite franklyI don't understand why anyone would be so concerned over the payroll, when Hendry had more money to spend this year, he just chose not to spend it. Would you rather have $10-15 M going to the Tribune company's pocketbook or a Major League SS? To me its a no brainer.

 

For $13M, I had better be getting a lot more than a 717 OPS and shoddy defense, but that really doesn't have much to do with this thread.

[E.J.]

So his ability to get on base frequently is of no value? I would take a .346 OBP out of the SS position any day of the week. Nobody said he was worth the $13M he is getting paid, but he would have been a lot better option over Cedeno. Quite franklyI don't understand why anyone would be so concerned over the payroll, when Hendry had more money to spend this year, he just chose not to spend it. Would you rather have $10-15 M going to the Tribune company's pocketbook or a Major League SS? To me its a no brainer.

 

For $13M, I had better be getting a lot more than a 717 OPS and shoddy defense, but that really doesn't have much to do with this thread.

 

To put it into context, Furcal and his .717 OPS is making just $1M less than Pujols and his 1.145 OPS.

[CUBZ99]

So his ability to get on base frequently is of no value? I would take a .346 OBP out of the SS position any day of the week. Nobody said he was worth the $13M he is getting paid, but he would have been a lot better option over Cedeno. Quite franklyI don't understand why anyone would be so concerned over the payroll, when Hendry had more money to spend this year, he just chose not to spend it. Would you rather have $10-15 M going to the Tribune company's pocketbook or a Major League SS? To me its a no brainer.

 

For $13M, I had better be getting a lot more than a 717 OPS and shoddy defense, but that really doesn't have much to do with this thread.

 

To put it into context, Furcal and his .717 OPS is making just $1M less than Pujols and his 1.145 OPS.

 

Please read bolded part above.

 

BTW I didn't mean to hijack this thread and will refrain from anymore Furcal talk.

[daske17]

So his ability to get on base frequently is of no value? I would take a .346 OBP out of the SS position any day of the week. Nobody said he was worth the $13M he is getting paid, but he would have been a lot better option over Cedeno. Quite franklyI don't understand why anyone would be so concerned over the payroll, when Hendry had more money to spend this year, he just chose not to spend it. Would you rather have $10-15 M going to the Tribune company's pocketbook or a Major League SS? To me its a no brainer.

 

To put things in perspective, Furcal v. Cedeno isn't the complete comparison we should be making. The comparison should be:

 

Furcal (SS)/Cedeno (2B)/Patterson(?)(CF) v. Cedeno (SS)/Walker (2B)/Pierre(CF).

[hawkeyecub]

Personally, I don't think this was a great deal for the Brewers at all. Nix is awful. Nelson Cruz>Nix. Mench is very middle-of-the-road, and Cordero is mediocre at best and is 31. I'm not a huge Lee fan, but I think they could have gotten so much more for him than this mediocre package of players.

 

I agree.

 

I'm very surprised the Brewers didn't hold out for more. They didn't get the arm they were rumored to be after, Mench is average (obviously inferior to Lee) and Cruz is superior to Nix. This deal doesn't help them in the short-term and not in the long-term either.