Dontrelle Willis to STL?

[NewUserName]

I wish the Cubs would do a Marlins. Of course I wouldnt want Hendry involved.

[TheDude]

I wish the Cubs would do a Marlins. Of course I wouldnt want Hendry involved.

 

I would. Hendry has shown to be far better at getting trade value than he has at outright signing free agents. 90% of Hendry's major successes as a GM have been in trades.

[goonys evil twin]

I wish the Cubs would do a Marlins. Of course I wouldnt want Hendry involved.

 

I would. Hendry has shown to be far better at getting trade value than he has at outright signing free agents. 90% of Hendry's major successes as a GM have been in trades.

 

But what about trading veterans for prospects? The only success so far is Murton, but he wasn't exactly going hard after Murton, and he didn't really trade veterans for prospects. He mostly traded prospects for a veteran and had a prospect thrown in.

 

From what I can tell, Hendry can do a decent job of trading prospects for established young players. But he couldn't pull off a Marlins deal.

[thedaymen]

I don't think Willis is going anywhere. The Mets were all hot and bothered for him a couple of weeks ago (and their fans still are) but were basically told "Willis ain't a goin' nowhere."

[TheDude]

But what about trading veterans for prospects? The only success so far is Murton, but he wasn't exactly going hard after Murton, and he didn't really trade veterans for prospects. He mostly traded prospects for a veteran and had a prospect thrown in.

 

From what I can tell, Hendry can do a decent job of trading prospects for established young players. But he couldn't pull off a Marlins deal.

 

I think that is a reflection of market status difference between the Cubs and Marlins. The Cubs under Hendry's watch haven't needed to trade off veterans for prospects.

[goonys evil twin]

But what about trading veterans for prospects? The only success so far is Murton, but he wasn't exactly going hard after Murton, and he didn't really trade veterans for prospects. He mostly traded prospects for a veteran and had a prospect thrown in.

 

From what I can tell, Hendry can do a decent job of trading prospects for established young players. But he couldn't pull off a Marlins deal.

 

I think that is a reflection of market status difference between the Cubs and Marlins. The Cubs under Hendry's watch haven't needed to trade off veterans for prospects.

 

But he's tried it.

[BigbadB]

I have to agree with Goony here. The trades he made were with teams in sell mode (Florida/Pittsburgh) or looking for an improvement for their own stretch drive (Boston).

 

It's ridiculous what we gave up to get Aramis. It's hindsight now, but it's now ridiculous what was given up for Lee.

 

It would take what seems like a ridiculous amount of talent to net the kind of guy the Cubs could use (A-Rod, Miggy Cabrera, Tejada, Abreu, etc...), but I'm not sure Hendry is willing to go down that road.

 

Pittsburgh got rid of a lot of talent the year they traded Aramis. And they didn't ask a whole lot in return. I think their main thing was reducing payroll. Florida wanted to be out from under Derrek Lee the year prior to the Choi/Lee trade, but no one wanted to take on his whole salary and Florida didn't want to pay any part of it. A lot of teams (especially Baltimore) must be kicking themselves after watching Lee break out last year.

 

Nomar's welcome was worn out in Boston.

 

Aramis has been better than advertised (though he has been slumping this year) and Lee was way better than anyone could imagine. The Cubs got lucky with those two trades.

 

They wouldn't be "lucky" to land an impact player listed above. It's going to cost them. Does Hendry have the cajones to make one happen?

 

In regards to prospects, I'd love to see him deal a Phil Nevin for a Franklin Gutierrez or a Maddux for a Joel Guzman or Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier, or a Todd Walker for a Nelson Cruz, or a Cedeno/Murton/Hill package for a Tampa outfielder like Baldelli or Crawford.

 

I worry that he's already waiting too long to move them. I think he would like Dusty to have every opportunity to improve this teams record, something that won't happen by trading vets for prospects (at least in the eyes of Dusty and Hendry).

 

This team needs a major overhaul. With a long list of players to trade in Rusch, Neifi, Walker, Nevin, Maddux, Pierre, Williamson, Dempster, Ohman, Jones and possibly Aramis, and youth in Cedeno, Murton, Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman, Pie, etc... Hendry has the resources to drastically improve this team from now through this winter through trade and free agency.

 

But, I'm very, very skeptical that he'll make the right moves.

[ToupeeOnFire]

I wish the Cubs would do a Marlins. Of course I wouldnt want Hendry involved.

 

I would. Hendry has shown to be far better at getting trade value than he has at outright signing free agents. 90% of Hendry's major successes as a GM have been in trades.

 

But what about trading veterans for prospects? The only success so far is Murton, but he wasn't exactly going hard after Murton, and he didn't really trade veterans for prospects. He mostly traded prospects for a veteran and had a prospect thrown in.

 

From what I can tell, Hendry can do a decent job of trading prospects for established young players. But he couldn't pull off a Marlins deal.

I can't remember the last time the Cubs were able to trade a veteran major leaguer for a prospect that managed to pan out. For some reason, I keep on thinking back to 1999, when the Cubs traded Jose Hernandez and Terry Mulholland for Micah Bowie and Rueben Quevedo. It looked like a good trade at the time, but neither Bowie or Quevedo amounted to anything.

 

The last Cub GM that I can think of that managed to make a veteran for minor leaguer swap with any degree of success was Dallas Green, who got Ryne Sandberg in exchange for Ivan DeJesus and, to a lesser extent, Keith Moreland for Mike Krukow. Other than that, in the interim, I can't think of any such trades that paid off.

 

I have little trust in Hendry's ability to acquire prospects for veterans.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I can't remember the last time the Cubs were able to trade a veteran major leaguer for a prospect that managed to pan out.

 

George Bell

[ToupeeOnFire]

I can't remember the last time the Cubs were able to trade a veteran major leaguer for a prospect that managed to pan out.

 

George Bell

Yeah, I guess that trade kind of paid off. :wink:

 

Any others I forgot?

[goonys evil twin]

I can't remember the last time the Cubs were able to trade a veteran major leaguer for a prospect that managed to pan out.

 

George Bell

 

He was young and unproven, but Sosa was hardly a prospect. 2+ years in the majors, 320 games, 1000 AB.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I don't think Willis is going anywhere. The Mets were all hot and bothered for him a couple of weeks ago (and their fans still are) but were basically told "Willis ain't a goin' nowhere."

 

Agreed. The Marlins have said they WANT to build around Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera for the foreseeable future. Rather that future is in South Florida (doubtful) or at a new location (most likely), the Marlins would be WISER to keep Dontrelle, and not run off the little fan support they do have.

 

This is just wishful thinking on the Cardinals part, cause they are SO DESPARATE for pitching.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think Willis is going anywhere. The Mets were all hot and bothered for him a couple of weeks ago (and their fans still are) but were basically told "Willis ain't a goin' nowhere."

 

Agreed. The Marlins have said they WANT to build around Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera for the foreseeable future. Rather that future is in South Florida (doubtful) or at a new location (most likely), the Marlins would be WISER to keep Dontrelle, and not run off the little fan support they do have.

 

This is just wishful thinking on the Cardinals part, cause they are SO DESPARATE for pitching.

 

Disagreed. They have no fan base, and they won't be paying both of these guys next year. Dontrelle mania is over. And if WS titles can't woo the crowd, Willis and Cabrera won't. If they move before next season, maybe they hold on. But I'm almost positive at least one will be traded by next season. DW can make $7-8m next year and MC could make $5-6 easily. I don't see them tying that much into 2 guys when it would pretty much match this year's entire payroll.

[dalgreen]

The last Cub GM that I can think of that managed to make a veteran for minor leaguer swap with any degree of success was Dallas Green, who got Ryne Sandberg in exchange for Ivan DeJesus and, to a lesser extent, Keith Moreland for Mike Krukow. Other than that, in the interim, I can't think of any such trades that paid off.

 

I have little trust in Hendry's ability to acquire prospects for veterans.

 

I believe the Ivan DeJesus trade was for Larry Bowa with Sandberg as a throw in.

 

Dallas Green was the last truly competent GM we had.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Am I the only one who thinks Dontrelle is very overrated?

 

I don't think he is "overrated" per sey, he started off miserable this year and has rebounded. He is a very good athlete and a very good pitcher. All the same, giving up that much talent would worry me if I were a Cardinal fan.

 

I don't know why the Cards or the Marlins would do this deal. Maybe the Jockerty thinks the Cards window of opportunity is about to close, I don't know.

 

Willis hasn't really rebounded, he's been decidedly average all year long.

[BigbadB]

For some reason, I keep on thinking back to 1999, when the Cubs traded Jose Hernandez and Terry Mulholland for Micah Bowie and Rueben Quevedo. It looked like a good trade at the time, but neither Bowie or Quevedo amounted to anything.

 

I could have sworn Quevedo came in a straight up deal for C Robert Machado.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

For some reason, I keep on thinking back to 1999, when the Cubs traded Jose Hernandez and Terry Mulholland for Micah Bowie and Rueben Quevedo. It looked like a good trade at the time, but neither Bowie or Quevedo amounted to anything.

 

I could have sworn Quevedo came in a straight up deal for C Robert Machado.

 

Nope

[Ding Dong Johnson]

For some reason, I keep on thinking back to 1999, when the Cubs traded Jose Hernandez and Terry Mulholland for Micah Bowie and Rueben Quevedo. It looked like a good trade at the time, but neither Bowie or Quevedo amounted to anything.

 

I could have sworn Quevedo came in a straight up deal for C Robert Machado.

 

We got Ruben from the Braves then traded him to the Brewers.

[BigbadB]

Just looked it up. Cubs got Jackson Melian for Machado on June 9, 2002.

 

Yeesh. Quevedo was traded to the Cubs in '99. I was way off. Then traded to the Brewers in 2001.

[FergieJ31]

Just looked it up. Cubs got Jackson Melian for Machado on June 9, 2002.

 

Yeesh. Quevedo was traded to the Cubs in '99. I was way off. Then traded to the Brewers in 2001.

 

I remember Quevedo looked like a stud for a good stretch in '01 with the Brewers, ERA a shade over 3 for a while, and he came back to haunt us with a 10-K win in his first start against the Cubs. But he quickly faded to oblivion, thank goodness.

 

He would be good for a lot of fat jokes on NSBB if he were still pitching - Ruben didn't miss too many meals.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The New York Post is reporting Willis isn't available...

 

From ESPN's Rumor Central,

 

While the Mets are interested in acquiring Bobby Abreu, the New York Post reports outfield prospect Lastings Milledge will not be moved as part of any trade for the Phillies' right fielder.

 

The paper reports that people close to Mets GM Omar Minaya say the only player Milledge would be traded for right now is Marlins left-hander Dontrelle Willis, but he isn't currently available.

[ToupeeOnFire]

Just looked it up. Cubs got Jackson Melian for Machado on June 9, 2002.

 

Yeesh. Quevedo was traded to the Cubs in '99. I was way off. Then traded to the Brewers in 2001.

Speaking of Jackson Melian, wasn't he the guy that, while traveling on a team bus, witnessed both of his parents die in a car accident?

 

Edit: Yes, he was (although I'm not sure on the "witnessed" part). I can't imagine how awful that must have been.

http://ingeorgewetrust.blogspot.com/2006/04/prospect-retrospect-jackson-melian.html

Edited July 21, 2006 by ToupeeOnFire

[Jon]

Just looked it up. Cubs got Jackson Melian for Machado on June 9, 2002.

 

Yeesh. Quevedo was traded to the Cubs in '99. I was way off. Then traded to the Brewers in 2001.

Speaking of Jackson Melian, wasn't he the guy that, while traveling on a team bus, witnessed both of his parents die in a car accident?

I don't believe he witnessed it, but they did drive by the scene of the accident shortly after it happened.

[BigbadB]

I'm not sure. That's very sad if that is the case.

[Andy]

I wish the Cubs would do a Marlins. Of course I wouldnt want Hendry involved.

 

I would. Hendry has shown to be far better at getting trade value than he has at outright signing free agents. 90% of Hendry's major successes as a GM have been in trades.

 

But what about trading veterans for prospects? The only success so far is Murton, but he wasn't exactly going hard after Murton, and he didn't really trade veterans for prospects. He mostly traded prospects for a veteran and had a prospect thrown in.

 

From what I can tell, Hendry can do a decent job of trading prospects for established young players. But he couldn't pull off a Marlins deal.

You sure? I could've sworn that I heard that Hendry insisted on Murton.