MLB.com Article: Trade Winds

[CubColtPacer]

Juan Pierre is on pace to play every game this year and score 80 runs. That is absolutely unacceptable from a lead off hitter. 80 runs from the lead off spot is what I would expect to see from a last place team. His .322 OBP is slightly worse than his .326 OBP last year.

 

As long as Pierre is a Cub, he will lead off. The Cubs need to go out and find someone who can get on base. Bringing Pierre back would not even remotely enter my mind in discussions about the 2007 team.

 

I'd trade Pierre for whatever I can get and call it a loss. Of course, if I was the GM, Pierre never would have been here in the first place. At least not at the cost of 3 pitching prospects.

 

Do you truly expect that Pierre will have a .322 OBP at the end of the year though? From his past history in the second half and his hot bat, I'd expect his number to end up between .340 and .350.

[NewUserName]

Also the Cubs already have a guy who is a notorious 2nd half player (ARam) having 2 players in key offensive roles who are not going to play well the first half would put a lot of pressure on the rest of the order. I would take Brady Clark in a heart beat over Pierre. As a matter of fact I would send the Brewers Pierre and Maddux for Clark and ptbnl, right now.

[KaiserCesar]

Whoops. I missed that. Anyway, Juan Pierre 2006 is easy to replace. The minors are flooded with guys who can provide Juan Pierre 2006 production.

 

Because Ronny Cedeno, our most ready rookie right now (not counting Murton-he's had a little more service time) certainly is playing as well as Pierre-except that's not true, and the gap is widening every single day. So no, the minors are not full of guys who can provide Pierre's production.

 

Edit: Actually, the way that it's going, Pierre will probably have better numbers than Murton by the end of the season as well. Do you think Murton should be replaced?

 

Okay, if what you mean by Murton being replaced is not being relied on as an everyday corner OF, I'd be open to that. His best utilization is as a platoon partner.

 

Now, as for Pierre's replacement, Angel Pagan, Luis Montanez, Buck Coats, Miguel Negron, Chris Walker, Nic Jackson, and a few months into the season, Felix Pie. Pierre isn't really a shining example of production, his absence will not be noticable with any of these guys patrolling CF.

[BigbadB]

Do you truly expect that Pierre will have a .322 OBP at the end of the year though? From his past history in the second half and his hot bat, I'd expect his number to end up between .340 and .350.

 

I'm not bold enough to predict that he'll improve on his numbers. I do know that we're close to the 3/5 point of the season, and he's been horrible at getting on base. I want someone who is consistent all year at setting up the big production guys. He's a great guy, but he needs to be a great guy somewhere else.

 

When he was a .360+ OBP guy, he had value. He isn't providing that value now. If I thought he could be a .360+ OBP guy again, I might have a change of heart. But, there is nothing in his approach at the plate that would lead me to believe he can be that guy again.

[Bergy92]

Juan Pierre is on pace to play every game this year and score 80 runs. That is absolutely unacceptable from a lead off hitter. 80 runs from the lead off spot is what I would expect to see from a last place team. His .322 OBP is slightly worse than his .326 OBP last year.

 

As long as Pierre is a Cub, he will lead off. The Cubs need to go out and find someone who can get on base. Bringing Pierre back would not even remotely enter my mind in discussions about the 2007 team.

 

I'd trade Pierre for whatever I can get and call it a loss. Of course, if I was the GM, Pierre never would have been here in the first place. At least not at the cost of 3 pitching prospects.

 

we're trying - have you looked at our record recently?

[jjgman21]

 

Okay, if what you mean by Murton being replaced is not being relied on as an everyday corner OF, I'd be open to that. His best utilization is as a platoon partner.

 

 

I really wish Cubs fans would be a little more patient with a guy who has a half season of ML before making a determination that he is best utilized as a platoon player. people should stop calling for running good players out of town or out of the lineup for the sake of the here and now.

 

one little adjustment and the guy will be a masher. give him a little time, some good coaching, rely on getting corner outfield production from your catcher, and let the kid play and develop. if he has the same numbers at this point of next year or the year after, fine. until then, let the guy keep getting on base at a good clip and develop his power.

[goonys evil twin]

 

Okay, if what you mean by Murton being replaced is not being relied on as an everyday corner OF, I'd be open to that. His best utilization is as a platoon partner.

 

 

I really wish Cubs fans would be a little more patient with a guy who has a half season of ML before making a determination that he is best utilized as a platoon player. people should stop calling for running good players out of town or out of the lineup for the sake of the here and now.

 

one little adjustment and the guy will be a masher. give him a little time, some good coaching, rely on getting corner outfield production from your catcher, and let the kid play and develop. if he has the same numbers at this point of next year or the year after, fine. until then, let the guy keep getting on base at a good clip and develop his power.

 

I think it will take more than one little adjustment for him to be a masher. And I'm nowhere near convinced he could ever be a true masher. Acceptable leftfielder? Sure. An efficient use of team resources? Definitely. I have no problem with Murton as the starting LF, but your other OF have to be much more productive than the current crop, and more importantly, the rest of your lineup has to produce much more. I'd prefer a lineup with a stud RF and never a guy like Neifi starting, not to mention an adaquate CF. Then you can fit Murton in just fine. But when your lineup is as bad as the Cubs, and it has been as bad as the Cubs' lineup has been for so long, you would be much better off platooning a guy like Murton unless you found much greater production elsewhere.

[CubColtPacer]

 

Okay, if what you mean by Murton being replaced is not being relied on as an everyday corner OF, I'd be open to that. His best utilization is as a platoon partner.

 

 

I really wish Cubs fans would be a little more patient with a guy who has a half season of ML before making a determination that he is best utilized as a platoon player. people should stop calling for running good players out of town or out of the lineup for the sake of the here and now.

 

one little adjustment and the guy will be a masher. give him a little time, some good coaching, rely on getting corner outfield production from your catcher, and let the kid play and develop. if he has the same numbers at this point of next year or the year after, fine. until then, let the guy keep getting on base at a good clip and develop his power.

 

I think it will take more than one little adjustment for him to be a masher. And I'm nowhere near convinced he could ever be a true masher. Acceptable leftfielder? Sure. An efficient use of team resources? Definitely. I have no problem with Murton as the starting LF, but your other OF have to be much more productive than the current crop, and more importantly, the rest of your lineup has to produce much more. I'd prefer a lineup with a stud RF and never a guy like Neifi starting, not to mention an adaquate CF. Then you can fit Murton in just fine. But when your lineup is as bad as the Cubs, and it has been as bad as the Cubs' lineup has been for so long, you would be much better off platooning a guy like Murton unless you found much greater production elsewhere.

 

The added benefit to that is-a Jones/Murton platoon gives you a very productive outfield spot-I mean a very productive spot. Here are their splits against right handers and left handers respectively.

 

Jones .333/.365/.569

Murton .310/.385/.452

 

That would be absolutely outstanding in a corener outfield spot. Then if we sign another good player to play the other corner outfield spot, we could really start to have the makings of a good offense.

[sporrer17]

I am in the court of believing Murton won't ever have tremendous power, probably tops out around 20-25 in his prime...which is not bad at all.

 

However, if you can get a little more pop from CF/2b/SS, then you have to do it. There aren't a ton of power hitters at those spots, which presents a problem. LF is basically the only spot in our lineup that we can add some pop without benching a big contract.

 

I want Murton to be our everyday LF...but if we have to add a LF with power, I'll live. Murton shouldn't be traded though, as he still makes a great 4th OF who is young and cheap. Worst case scenario, he is getting 200-250 ABs just from pinch hitting/spot starting/platooning in the OF.

[Jon]

The added benefit to that is-a Jones/Murton platoon gives you a very productive outfield spot-I mean a very productive spot. Here are their splits against right handers and left handers respectively.

 

Jones .333/.365/.569

Murton .310/.385/.452

 

That would be absolutely outstanding in a corener outfield spot. Then if we sign another good player to play the other corner outfield spot, we could really start to have the makings of a good offense.

That's one of the problems of moving Jones to center. There's no reason he should be starting against lefties and he'd need a platoon partner. Murton wouldn't be able to be that guy.

[CubColtPacer]

The added benefit to that is-a Jones/Murton platoon gives you a very productive outfield spot-I mean a very productive spot. Here are their splits against right handers and left handers respectively.

 

Jones .333/.365/.569

Murton .310/.385/.452

 

That would be absolutely outstanding in a corener outfield spot. Then if we sign another good player to play the other corner outfield spot, we could really start to have the makings of a good offense.

That's one of the problems of moving Jones to center. There's no reason he should be starting against lefties and he'd need a platoon partner. Murton wouldn't be able to be that guy.

 

I think most people who want to move Jones to center are trying to get more power in the outfield with Murton in left, so they need to open up the other corner outfield spot. If Murton moved over as a platoon partner though, we could add the power with a left fielder, and then figure out what to do in center.

[abuck1220]

The added benefit to that is-a Jones/Murton platoon gives you a very productive outfield spot-I mean a very productive spot. Here are their splits against right handers and left handers respectively.

 

Jones .333/.365/.569

Murton .310/.385/.452

 

That would be absolutely outstanding in a corener outfield spot. Then if we sign another good player to play the other corner outfield spot, we could really start to have the makings of a good offense.

That's one of the problems of moving Jones to center. There's no reason he should be starting against lefties and he'd need a platoon partner. Murton wouldn't be able to be that guy.

 

but somebody would. they wouldn't need to be that good if you have two solid corner guys. heck, if you have a stud at each corner, i can live w/ jones' flailing hopelessly at lefties.

[jjgman21]

the efficient use of resources is the reason I think Murton has to be given every chance to develop his power and the ability to hit right handed ML pitching. again, the presence of a catcher who produces like a leftfielder allows you to get away with this. Murton + Barrett out produces just about any LF/C combo in baseball.

 

then all you need to do is get traditional rightfield production out of rightfield, which can be done by adding a right handed platoon option, as few have argued with. that leaves center, and there have been any number of suggestions. I like DeJesus from the Royals, just my opinion, but keeping Murton as a full time player, getting a platoon partner for Jones leaves the team with alot more resources (pay and/or players) to improve center.

 

to me, keeping Murton in left allows you to limit the number of difficult transactions that need to be made, and has the added benefit of bringing Murton along. I also think a small adjustment that gets him squaring up on the ball instead of hitting the top of the ball when he's pulling the pitch would instantly turn him into a .365/.485 hitter. I don't know what that adjustment would be, but I would think a competent ML hitting coach should be able to figure it out.

[cheapseats]

I am in the court of believing Murton won't ever have tremendous power, probably tops out around 20-25 in his prime...which is not bad at all.

 

Unfortunately, scouts and statheads would both argue that 20-25 homers is an optomistic number.

 

Scouts say they don't see any signs of him developing power, and PECOTA has Murton topping out at 14 HR.

[goonys evil twin]

the efficient use of resources is the reason I think Murton has to be given every chance to develop his power and the ability to hit right handed ML pitching. again, the presence of a catcher who produces like a leftfielder allows you to get away with this. Murton + Barrett out produces just about any LF/C combo in baseball.

 

It's not a 1 for 1 trade-off. It's all 8 spots that matter, plus the bench. The Cubs have no bench, and a weak lineup. It doesn't matter how good Barrett is.

 

Murton definitely has to be given every opportunity to develop this year. But going into the 8, with the lineup they had, it was a mistake to have him as the LF. It wouldn't have been a mistake if they did a respectable job of filling in the rest of the spots, but they didn't. I'm not saying that as a slight to Murton. I wanted there to be a spot for him. But Hendry's inept work meant they needed more from Murton than they could reasonably expect from him. And that was bad. A cheap LF that gets on base is a fantastic use of resources, but it won't be enough to win if the rest of your lineup sucks.

[sporrer17]

I am not sure about everyone else, but I see Murton with pretty decent raw power, and he's got pretty solid opposite field power IMO. His power right now may be only around 10 HRs/year, but I can see him developing that power as he gets more used to the league.

 

Maybe I'm just a Murton fan though :lol:

 

Even if he does hover around the .290/.370/.420 mark for a few more years before developing power, he can at least hang around as the 4th OF/platoon partner for Jones.

[goonys evil twin]

I am not sure about everyone else, but I see Murton with pretty decent raw power, and he's got pretty solid opposite field power IMO. His power right now may be only around 10 HRs/year, but I can see him developing that power as he gets more used to the league.

 

Maybe I'm just a Murton fan though :lol:

 

Even if he does hover around the .290/.370/.420 mark for a few more years before developing power, he can at least hang around as the 4th OF/platoon partner for Jones.

 

Isn't raw power what people describe when they talk about Harvey or Dopirak? Isn't it incredible strength and the ability to hit it a mile, but it's raw because he's not a hitter yet? My impression of Murton is he's a hitter, he has strike zone judgement and can make contact. He just has very little power. Perhaps he can gain power as he ages, but I don't think you can qualify him as having raw power.

[Lefty]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry did not move Pierre. I think he will be looking for similar to what he gave up to get him. If nobody offers that, Jim has already said he's willing to take draft picks for Pierre.

 

Hendry is a fool. To get draft picks he'd have to offer arbitration. And Pierre would probably accept.

 

I am on record as saying that Pierre will get an extension shortly after July 31. I don't think Hendry has any idea what his next move will be. He's a random idea generator.

[sporrer17]

Isn't raw power what people describe when they talk about Harvey or Dopirak? Isn't it incredible strength and the ability to hit it a mile, but it's raw because he's not a hitter yet? My impression of Murton is he's a hitter, he has strike zone judgement and can make contact. He just has very little power. Perhaps he can gain power as he ages, but I don't think you can qualify him as having raw power.

 

You can take it like that, too. I think of raw power as more like not developed yet as far as numbers go. Felix Pie has good "raw power" but has never put up great HR totals (save for half a season at AA). He's still a decent hitter though.

 

He's got enough power to hit a good # of HRs...some of his HRs have been pretty big shots before, and going back to his college/early minor league days, he's been in a few HR derbys and done quite well I believe.

 

A guy can be a good hitter with raw power...and not put up many HRs/XBHs. Sometime it takes a while for batting practice power to translate to game power (if it does at all). Look at a guy like Bill Hall of the Brewers...only once in his minor league career did he ever hit double digit HRs...and he's got 18 in 308 ABs this year.

 

Murton could be completely different and be maxed out on power. I believe, judged on his swing, build, and youth, that his power will at least be in the 17-21 HR range at some point in the next few years. He also showed good pop last year in the majors (7 HR in 140 ABs). Those numbers projected out over a full season give him 25 in 500 ABs. I don't think it's out of the question at all for him to develop power over the next few years.

[CuseCubFan69]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry did not move Pierre. I think he will be looking for similar to what he gave up to get him. If nobody offers that, Jim has already said he's willing to take draft picks for Pierre.

 

Hendry is a fool. To get draft picks he'd have to offer arbitration. And Pierre would probably accept.

 

I am on record as saying that Pierre will get an extension shortly after July 31. I don't think Hendry has any idea what his next move will be. He's a random idea generator.

 

The bitter part of this pill is that Pierre is considered a type b free agent and Hendry offers arb and then Pierre wins and gets 9.

[KaiserCesar]

the efficient use of resources is the reason I think Murton has to be given every chance to develop his power and the ability to hit right handed ML pitching. again, the presence of a catcher who produces like a leftfielder allows you to get away with this. Murton + Barrett out produces just about any LF/C combo in baseball.

 

then all you need to do is get traditional rightfield production out of rightfield, which can be done by adding a right handed platoon option, as few have argued with. that leaves center, and there have been any number of suggestions. I like DeJesus from the Royals, just my opinion, but keeping Murton as a full time player, getting a platoon partner for Jones leaves the team with alot more resources (pay and/or players) to improve center.

 

to me, keeping Murton in left allows you to limit the number of difficult transactions that need to be made, and has the added benefit of bringing Murton along. I also think a small adjustment that gets him squaring up on the ball instead of hitting the top of the ball when he's pulling the pitch would instantly turn him into a .365/.485 hitter. I don't know what that adjustment would be, but I would think a competent ML hitting coach should be able to figure it out.

 

I'd like to see Murton develop, which is why I think he should play the rest of this year, I see why anyone would think he shouldn't. I also think that the FA market is reasonably favorable for this team to make a push in 07. Adding a good SP and corner OF like Lee, maybe trading for one, and then a Murton/Jones platoon gives you 5 very good spots of production. Then CF and 2B can be filled cheaply or from within. (for example: Roberts, Fontenot)

 

If a very productive corner OF is retained after next year, you could trade Jones in the offseason with 1 year left on his deal, maybe with his numbers inflated due to the platoon, and hand the job over to Murton. Platooning Murton still doesn't mean "giving up on him"