sulley's simple steps to fixing the cubs

[Magnetic Curses]

okay, i'll keep this long and sweet.

 

greg maddux and juan pierre to the brewers for brady clark and corey koskie. brewers move hall to third as hardy comes back. juan pierre's speed is overvalued, moreso than brady clark's far superior plate discipline and OBP. clark's defense in center won't be bad enough to outweigh his offensive contributions.

 

jacque jones, aramis ramirez, sean marshall, and whatever cash it takes to make the salaries a wash to the phillies for bobby abreu. yes, unrealistic, and abreu probably wouldn't okay a trade to the cubs unless he were convinced they were headed in the right direction, but this could be remedied by doing things to simply convince him.

 

bobby howry and angel guzman to the reds for ryan freel. i'd do the trade if i were the reds.

 

offseason- use the wood money to re-sign z. use the maddux money to sign jason schmidt.

 

the team looks like this:

 

CF- Brady Clark

2b- Ryan Freel

1b- Derrek Lee

RF- Bobby Abreu

C- Michael Barrett

3b- Corey Koskie

LF- Matt Murton

SS- Ronny Cedeno

 

Yes, I know, Koskie is getting older but has always showed sufficient discipline at the plate. he's a complimentary player, who's decent defensively and offers a little pop. this team would be built in the cardinal-mold with the big three in the middle providing the offensive production and everyone else trying to get on base. murton can be allowed to play and grow in the seven spot, and this team could live with cedeno in the 8th spot-which still doesn't absolve him from learning how to hit at a major league level. cedeno will hurt us less with this lineup.

 

as for starting pitching:

 

zambrano

schmidt

prior

marmol

hill

 

this provides us a big 3 at the top of the staff and 2 inexperienced but obviously talented pitchers in the 4th and 5th spots, which is where they belong.

 

bullpen

 

novoa

wuertz

eyre

ohman

rusch

dempster

 

no, not an awe-inspiring group, but good enough to get the job done. if the mood strikes and wood is up for it, replace wuertz's name with his.

 

i won't speculate on the bench, but as long as dusty's gone next year, keep perez and use him appropriately in late-inning defensive roles and perhaps someone who can spell an infielder every once in a while.

 

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--and bringing up theriot and fontenot.

 

i think this team could win some games.

[goonys evil twin]

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--.

 

Why in the world would you do that?

[Magnetic Curses]

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--.

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

okay, how about russell branyan?

[ConstableRabbit]

It's not a bad plan, but I would worry about the staff. I would imagine the bullpen would be really shaky and I don't know if Hill and Marmol will be able to handle the entire season. Of course, if Z and Schmidt pitch like they should, and Prior stays healthy, they might be able to carry the rotation.

 

I like the trade for Freel as well. He's been one of my favorites for some time.

 

Abreu trade I'm on the fence about, mainly because he's getting older and I'm not willing to give up on Aramis. (Or maybe I'm just in denial that he's starting a decline). I wouldn't mind seeing a platoon of Jones with Murton and us shooting for Lee.

 

Also, what do you think about Pie and when/where he will end up playing?

 

Of course, we would not have much to lose after 2006 and that team would be no worse than this year's team, especially when considering an entirely new coaching staff.

 

Particularly funny was picturing Maddux taking orders from his older brother in Mil.

[DCNashville]

 

jacque jones, aramis ramirez, sean marshall, and whatever cash it takes to make the salaries a wash to the phillies for bobby abreu. yes, unrealistic, and abreu probably wouldn't okay a trade to the cubs unless he were convinced they were headed in the right direction, but this could be remedied by doing things to simply convince him.

 

 

I'm not sure I'd trade Aramis for Abreu straight up, let alone throwing in Marshall, Jones, and cash. Abreu is 32, has seemingly lost his power stroke (8 homers this season), and has probably peaked. Aramis is 28 and probably has not yet peaked and plays a position that I think is more difficult to replace (I don't think Koskie is a good option there).

[goonys evil twin]

 

jacque jones, aramis ramirez, sean marshall, and whatever cash it takes to make the salaries a wash to the phillies for bobby abreu. yes, unrealistic, and abreu probably wouldn't okay a trade to the cubs unless he were convinced they were headed in the right direction, but this could be remedied by doing things to simply convince him.

 

 

I'm not sure I'd trade Aramis for Abreu straight up, let alone throwing in Marshall, Jones, and cash. Abreu is 32, has seemingly lost his power stroke (8 homers this season), and has probably peaked. Aramis is 28 and probably has not yet peaked and plays a position that I think is more difficult to replace (I don't think Koskie is a good option there).

 

I forgot that's another part I didn't like. That sounds like you are severely discounting Ramirez.

[cubfan]

"jacque jones, aramis ramirez, sean marshall, and whatever cash it takes to make the salaries a wash to the phillies for bobby abreu. "

 

I would think that would be enough to have the Yankees interested in a deal for Arod. Who I would much rather have than Abreu.

Edited July 14, 2006 by cubfan

[soccer10k]

 

jacque jones, aramis ramirez, sean marshall, and whatever cash it takes to make the salaries a wash to the phillies for bobby abreu. yes, unrealistic, and abreu probably wouldn't okay a trade to the cubs unless he were convinced they were headed in the right direction, but this could be remedied by doing things to simply convince him.

 

 

I'm not sure I'd trade Aramis for Abreu straight up, let alone throwing in Marshall, Jones, and cash. Abreu is 32, has seemingly lost his power stroke (8 homers this season), and has probably peaked. Aramis is 28 and probably has not yet peaked and plays a position that I think is more difficult to replace (I don't think Koskie is a good option there).

 

It would have to be an EXTREMELY good deal for me to want the Cubs to trade ARam. Also, we would me better off trying to land ARod with the Jones-ARam-Marshall combination. Wouldn't be a horrible deal from the Yankees perspective as they would get a productive 3B, an OF, and a starter. Not that it will happen though.

[RynoRules]

I think you are also paying a steep price for Free, a guy I like, but not that much. Howry by himself ought to be enough in light of how overvalued set up guys are right now.

 

I also favor trading Prior. We have good yoing depth in our staff. How about Prior and a prospect for Abreu instead? Sign Schmidt and here is your staff:

 

Zambrano

Schmidt

Marshall

Hill / Guzman / Marmol (pick 2)

 

Acquring Freel gets you this:

 

Freel

Murton

Lee

ARam

Abreu

Barrett

Jones

Cedeno

 

Not bad, and allows you to retain much of your valuable young depth, plus doesn't derail our pen.

 

EDIT: Meh, I forgot that I am trading Howry. Oh well - value begets value (usually).

Edited July 14, 2006 by RynoRules

[baseball7897]

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--.

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

okay, how about russell branyan?

 

Branyan strikes out way to much to be a everyday player

[CardsFanInChiTown]

greg maddux and juan pierre to the brewers for brady clark and corey koskie. brewers move hall to third as hardy comes back. juan pierre's speed is overvalued, moreso than brady clark's far superior plate discipline and OBP. clark's defense in center won't be bad enough to outweigh his offensive contributions.

 

The Brewers are too smart to make a trade like this.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--.

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

okay, how about russell branyan?

 

Branyan strikes out way to much to be a everyday player

 

No he doesn't, and he was advocating a bench role.

[baseball7897]

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--.

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

okay, how about russell branyan?

 

Branyan strikes out way to much to be a everyday player

 

No he doesn't, and he was advocating a bench role.

 

Branyan played in 134 games in 02 and struckout 151 times in 378 AB. If he played 162 games he would strikeout about 180 times. Not to mention he has a career .232 average. Just what we need more guys who cannot hit the ball. He may hit the HR but im not sure if he is a guy I would want on my team.

[Geech]

bobby howry and angel guzman to the reds for ryan freel. i'd do the trade if i were the reds.

 

I'm pretty sure the Reds are expecting Freel to take over at center field or one of the corners. I don't think there's any way this happens.

[KaiserCesar]

i advocate bringing mabry back as well--.

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

okay, how about russell branyan?

 

Branyan strikes out way to much to be a everyday player

 

No he doesn't, and he was advocating a bench role.

 

Branyan played in 134 games in 02 and struckout 151 times in 378 AB. If he played 162 games he would strikeout about 180 times. Not to mention he has a career .232 average. Just what we need more guys who cannot hit the ball. He may hit the HR but im not sure if he is a guy I would want on my team.

 

I've also heard before that Branyan needs to play everyday and get ABs to do well and can't really handle a bench role.

[UMFan83]

Normally I probably wouldn't like giving up so many of these players. But I don't care what needs to be done, just do something and your proposal looks good enough for me. Lets do it now.

[d_money]

Abreu doesn't do it for me. He is in the "suspect" category of inflated numbers from a few years ago...GM's know this.

 

I'm all for getting Prior healthy and finishing 06 strong, then trading him in the off season for a couple of everyday players, possibly a few of the talented group for theDodgers (Either, Kemp, etc...). Rumors are that he doesn't want to be in Chicago anyway.

[rocket]

Abreu doesn't do it for me. He is in the "suspect" category of inflated numbers from a few years ago...GM's know this.

 

I'm all for getting Prior healthy and finishing 06 strong, then trading him in the off season for a couple of everyday players, possibly a few of the talented group for theDodgers (Either, Kemp, etc...). Rumors are that he doesn't want to be in Chicago anyway.

 

Inflated numbers when he was 28, 29, 30...his prime years?

[jjgman21]

I like the idea of building a "big three in the middle" but a big three of Lee, Abreu, and Barrett will likely not be a vast improvement over a big three of Lee, Aram and Barrett. so why give away those other trading chips for what would probably be a 20 point gain in OBP, but an 80-100 point drop off in SLG?

 

I don't think this team requires a whole lot to get back on track. it all starts with coaching changes, but in terms of players, I don't think it takes two or three give away trades as suggested. I also think the Cubs are in a position to both rebuild the team for next year and bolster the farm system.

 

I like the idea of Clark, but I don't think they would want Maddux, or that Maddux would approve the trade, or that it would take all that much to get him. I think some relief help might get the job done. Howry for Clark, straight up. this also gets the Cubs out of Howry's contract, which I don't think he will live up to in 07-08.

 

a possible destination for Maddux is the Dodgers, who need starters and would do well in Dodger stadium. Maddux also might approve this trade. with the emergence of their young guys they have a surplus of outfielders. Maddux straight up for Jose Cruz Jr. there's your right field platton partner for Jones, and he could share some time with Murton in left.

 

even though their pitching has held up surprisingly well, the Rockies are always in the need for pitching help, and at only 4 games out may think they could make a run at the playoffs. Walker and Wuertz for Jamey Carroll.

 

this gives you a lineup of:

 

 

lineup

 

Clark

Murton/Cruz

Lee

Aram

Barrett

Jones/Cruz

Carroll

Cedeno

P

 

not necessarily in that order. cap the offense off by signing Craig Wilson for back up at five positions, sort of like Mabry, but not lefty, and not so sucky.

 

bench

 

OF - Cruz/Jones/Murton, Pagan

IF - Perez, Theriot/Fontenot

IF/OF/C - Wilson

C - Soto

 

not necessarily in that order. you have the big three, actually a big four if the platoon of Jones/Cruz produces to their split norm. it also gives you three guys likely to have .360 OBPs around those guys. then you use Mabry, Nevin, Novoa, Williamson, Pierre, Ryu/Guz/Hill/Marshall, Rusch, maybe Eyre/Dempster as trade bait to build the farm with some good sticks.

 

sign one of the big FA arms, and maybe an inning eatter as well.

 

rotation

 

Z

Schmidt/Zito/Japanese guy

Prior

innings eatter/Marmol

Marshall/Hill/Guz/Ryu/Marmol

 

build your bullpen around Dempster and/or Eyre, Ohman, the guys you don't trade, the remaining minor leaguers and a signing or two.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

With LA's young OF's, they may choose to let Cruz walk instead of picking up his 4M option.

 

And Carroll isn't worth trading for. He's a 32 year old that can take a walk, but not hit for a lick of power outside of Coors. If that's the type of 2B option we want to go for, let's sign Adam Kennedy and get great defense out of that production at a younger age.

[jjgman21]

crap. lost my reply. the short version:

 

the point of the Cruz/Maddux trade is also to get some value for Maddux. even if Cruz could be had via FA, he's not likely to sign with a team that won't give him a full time spot, or at least two years. trading for him and picking up the option (I didn't know it was an option) takes the choice out of his hands and keeps alot of personnel flexability in the outfield, while being productive in 07.

 

the point of the Carroll trade is to get low cost value out of second until you see if EPatt/Fontenot/Theriot/Lewis can take over the position in 07-08. put him in the 2 whole and take advantage of his patience and obp in front of the bobbers.

 

the team I put together likely has an OPB of .360+ out of 7 positions, and hits 200+ HRs, and leaves about 50M to build the pitching staff.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

the point of the Carroll trade is to get low cost value out of second until you see if EPatt/Fontenot/Theriot/Lewis can take over the position in 07-08. put him in the 2 whole and take advantage of his patience and obp in front of the bobbers.

 

I see what you're saying, but Carroll? If cost effectiveness and patience is what you're looking for, just put Fontenot in there(who looks like a better version of Carroll looking at there minor league careers).

[jjgman21]

the point of the Carroll trade is to get low cost value out of second until you see if EPatt/Fontenot/Theriot/Lewis can take over the position in 07-08. put him in the 2 whole and take advantage of his patience and obp in front of the bobbers.

 

I see what you're saying, but Carroll? If cost effectiveness and patience is what you're looking for, just put Fontenot in there(who looks like a better version of Carroll looking at there minor league careers).

 

fine with me! I just looked at his numbers and had no idea he was having such a solid year. if he's capable of anything close, he'll do just fine, plus he's lefty, isn't he? use Walker/Wuertz as more trade bait to land minor league sticks or keep Wuertz for the pen.

 

it just goes to further show my original point. the team is not that far away. a simple change in management, Cruz (or similar) for Maddux, signing Craig Wilson and a pitcher, and a few in house moves, and this team is pretty damn good!

 

edit - and has a better future by getting young sticks for the farm with the trading chips.

Edited July 15, 2006 by jjgman21

[CP_414]

I like the idea of Clark, but I don't think they would want Maddux, or that Maddux would approve the trade, or that it would take all that much to get him. I think some relief help might get the job done. Howry for Clark, straight up. this also gets the Cubs out of Howry's contract, which I don't think he will live up to in 07-08.

 

I think Clark can be had pretty cheap right now. Word is the Brewers are going to call up Tony Gwynn Jr before their game tonight. That gives them 3 CF's on the major league roster, and a 4th guy (Hall)who can play center. Clark has been losing at bats to Gabe Gross as it was, and seems to have fallen out of favor in Milwaukee dispite his OBP. He is due to make $3.8M next season, and the Brewers could make better use of the money since they aren't even playing Brady.

 

I would offer Milwaukee Maddux, Dempster, and Neifi for Clark and Billy Hall. Plug Clark in at CF next year and Hall at 2B. They will both make under $4M, while Clark can give you a .380 OBP and Hall can hit 30 HRs with 40 doubles from the 2nd base position. Hall does struggles with OBP, and Clark has no speed or power, but they have strengths and financially they wopuld allow the Cubs to get two impact players (i.e. trade for Abreu and sign Schmidt).

 

To get Abreu you could offer Marshall, Murton, and Pie for Abreu and a little cash.

 

 

2007 Cubs

CF Clark

C Barrett

1B Lee

RF Abreu

3B ARAM

2B Hall

LF Jones

SS Cedeno

 

SP Zambrano

SP Schmidt

SP Prior

SP cheap FA pitcher (Weaver? Ohka? Meche?)

SP Marmol/Guzman/Hill

 

BP Howry

BP Eyre

BP Ohman

BP Novoa

BP Wuertz

BP ??? Marmol? Guzman?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anyone worried that Clark has hit nothing but singles this year?