"Something going on upstairs...."

[CuseCubFan69]

 

You're right they have cruised and the difference between the super stars and the potential guys are the ones that fail and fight/learn while the potential guys just do what they've always done and don't adapt. Why Prior? I think he has to have the perfect situation before he goes out and can't go out if it isn't.

 

So Prior never had to adapt to anything in 2002 or 2003, or late last year when he came back from a broken elbow and had very good results? He had nothing but the perfect situation laid out in front of him?

 

He's had some of the worst coaching possible and one of the worst offenses in the game ever since he became a Cub, not to mention some god awful defense behind him and incredibly inconsist relievers. And all this between 21-25, when you're supposed to be learning the game from all those tough guys that made it through the rigors of many a season before you, except his veteran teammates were largely inept bums who had to have a kid carry them if anything good was going to happen.

 

Good point about his teammates and coaching staff. I never expected Prior to carry this team...never. I wanted him to pitch quality innings and for Baker to not over use/abuse him. I saw him as a 2/3 type guy and it would be a bonus if he was an ace. At this point in his career he should be able to tell us what he is but the injuries have skewed that for us. Why the injuries? Why do people defend him so much about the injuries but yet have no problem saying Baker has had his chance while he hasn't had a healthy team? Can you split it like that or is it bacuse Baker has helped make Wood/Prior what they are...injured pitchers always on the mend?

[goonys evil twin]

Good point about his teammates and coaching staff. I never expected Prior to carry this team...never. I wanted him to pitch quality innings and for Baker to not over use/abuse him. I saw him as a 2/3 type guy and it would be a bonus if he was an ace. At this point in his career he should be able to tell us what he is but the injuries have skewed that for us. Why the injuries? Why do people defend him so much about the injuries but yet have no problem saying Baker has had his chance while he hasn't had a healthy team? Can you split it like that or is it bacuse Baker has helped make Wood/Prior what they are...injured pitchers always on the mend?

 

I said at the time he was hired that he'd drive at least 1, and probably 2 of the big 3 into the ground. I just didn't know which ones. I defend Prior and not Baker because Baker is an old man who has been around the game and should know better, and all he has to do is think. Prior not only has to think, but perform an extremely difficult physical task that ultimately injures just about everybody that attempts to perform the task.

 

Furthermore, what else can you do but defend a guy for injuries? What is the other option, blaming him? Irrationally accusing him of faking it?

[CuseCubFan69]

Good point about his teammates and coaching staff. I never expected Prior to carry this team...never. I wanted him to pitch quality innings and for Baker to not over use/abuse him. I saw him as a 2/3 type guy and it would be a bonus if he was an ace. At this point in his career he should be able to tell us what he is but the injuries have skewed that for us. Why the injuries? Why do people defend him so much about the injuries but yet have no problem saying Baker has had his chance while he hasn't had a healthy team? Can you split it like that or is it bacuse Baker has helped make Wood/Prior what they are...injured pitchers always on the mend?

 

I said at the time he was hired that he'd drive at least 1, and probably 2 of the big 3 into the ground. I just didn't know which ones. I defend Prior and not Baker because Baker is an old man who has been around the game and should know better, and all he has to do is think. Prior not only has to think, but perform an extremely difficult physical task that ultimately injures just about everybody that attempts to perform the task.

 

Furthermore, what else can you do but defend a guy for injuries? What is the other option, blaming him? Irrationally accusing him of faking it?

 

Well I suppose when you look at Drew (LA) you have to wonder is it just freak accidents or is he brittle. So far in LA he's been fine so maybe the feak accidents is the answer. Maybe that's what is going on with Prior along with Baker driving him/pitchers too hard. Some players won't tempt fate in any way if they are hurt in the slightest form. Is Prior one of those guys? I'd like to see him pitch a couple of years injury free and show us. A lot of managers over pitch starters and Baker isn't the only one guilty of that. Mckeon did it at Florida and Leyland is suppose to be another one. IMO a lot of these guys get over pitched in HS and in college and that may have started a slide too that Baker may be the one that pushes them over the edge. How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

[fiver]

There's someone in my head, but it's not me.

[goonys evil twin]

Well I suppose when you look at Drew (LA) you have to wonder is it just freak accidents or is he brittle.

 

And are you supposed to blame a guy for being brittle? You asked why people defend Prior for the injuries. Being injured is not something you should have to defend a guy from. It's not a choice by the player, except for those situations when injuries are the result of stupid motorcycle, skydiving, shirt ironing, wall punching, etc. The fact that he finished up 2003 pitching with a sore calf (which likely led into the achilles issues the next spring), stayed in the game after falling hard on his shoulder, came back from a broken elbow and is pitching right now at what is obviously not 100% puts an awful lot of holes in the assertion that Prior might be one of those guys who won't tempt fate in any way.

[bleedcubbieblue]

There's someone in my head, but it's not me.

 

David Lynch???? :D

 

BCB

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

[CuseCubFan69]

Well I suppose when you look at Drew (LA) you have to wonder is it just freak accidents or is he brittle.

 

And are you supposed to blame a guy for being brittle? You asked why people defend Prior for the injuries. Being injured is not something you should have to defend a guy from. It's not a choice by the player, except for those situations when injuries are the result of stupid motorcycle, skydiving, shirt ironing, wall punching, etc. The fact that he finished up 2003 pitching with a sore calf (which likely led into the achilles issues the next spring), stayed in the game after falling hard on his shoulder, came back from a broken elbow and is pitching right now at what is obviously not 100% puts an awful lot of holes in the assertion that Prior might be one of those guys who won't tempt fate in any way.

 

Are you saying some players aren't injury prone?

[Fro]

It's gonna be an adjustment for him coming back, when the dude was pretty much bionic and unstoppable when he came in.

[Mizzou]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

Hmm, I never knew that Prior went to Vanderbilt. Do you know why he transferred?

[CuseCubFan69]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

 

I'm curious on how many pitches he threw each game. Thanks for coming out with those numbers Raisin. How'd he do against UCLA?

[UK1679666180]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

 

He also pitched for Team USA each of those Summers.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

Hmm, I never knew that Prior went to Vanderbilt. Do you know why he transferred?

 

He wanted to be closer to home.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

 

I'm curious on how many pitches he threw each game. Thanks for coming out with those numbers Raisin. How'd he do against UCLA?

 

No clue, that was before my time at UCLA (I pulled a Prior and transfered after my freshman year).

 

EDIT: His JR year -

 

@ Jackie Robinson: 7 IP, 2 H, 1 R (0 ER), 12 Ks/1 BB, ND

@ USC: 9 IP, 6 H, 0 R, 14 Ks, W

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

 

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1

Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP

Junior year (USC): 138 IP

 

He also pitched for Team USA each of those Summers.

 

Good point.

 

I'm guessing Prior threw quite a few pitches based on college pitcher's reputations of pitches/innings thrown. But that's just a generalization. Even then, his soph and junior years at USC and his 2002 season (WT/Iowa/Chicago) were a far lighter load than his 2003 season (and that was with the missed starts after running into Marcus Giles).

[goonys evil twin]

Well I suppose when you look at Drew (LA) you have to wonder is it just freak accidents or is he brittle.

 

And are you supposed to blame a guy for being brittle? You asked why people defend Prior for the injuries. Being injured is not something you should have to defend a guy from. It's not a choice by the player, except for those situations when injuries are the result of stupid motorcycle, skydiving, shirt ironing, wall punching, etc. The fact that he finished up 2003 pitching with a sore calf (which likely led into the achilles issues the next spring), stayed in the game after falling hard on his shoulder, came back from a broken elbow and is pitching right now at what is obviously not 100% puts an awful lot of holes in the assertion that Prior might be one of those guys who won't tempt fate in any way.

 

Are you saying some players aren't injury prone?

 

I'm saying I think it's absurd to "blame" players for their injuries.

[CuseCubFan69]

Well I suppose when you look at Drew (LA) you have to wonder is it just freak accidents or is he brittle.

 

And are you supposed to blame a guy for being brittle? You asked why people defend Prior for the injuries. Being injured is not something you should have to defend a guy from. It's not a choice by the player, except for those situations when injuries are the result of stupid motorcycle, skydiving, shirt ironing, wall punching, etc. The fact that he finished up 2003 pitching with a sore calf (which likely led into the achilles issues the next spring), stayed in the game after falling hard on his shoulder, came back from a broken elbow and is pitching right now at what is obviously not 100% puts an awful lot of holes in the assertion that Prior might be one of those guys who won't tempt fate in any way.

 

Are you saying some players aren't injury prone?

 

I'm saying I think it's absurd to "blame" players for their injuries.

 

I think you're wrong. I've talked to many professional baseball trainers and many players have horrible workout habits or none at all. ARam has bad tendons, shouldn't he stretch them more than any other player or is it just bad luck when he hurts them again? Wood has bad mechanics and possibly very bad work habits is it ok for him not to do anything and if he doesn't we shouldn't blame him for what happens?

[Magnetic Curses]

even though prior has had his share of injuries, there's absolutely no way that i think about trading him.

 

i'd even bring wood back next year if he'd agree to a 1-2 mil deal for one year with a vesting option worth considerably more for a second year. there's nothing structurally wrong with him. will he get injured again? if he does next season, there's really not much invested in him to worry anyone.

 

as for prior, i have no doubt that he'll return to form.

[BigbadB]

even though prior has had his share of injuries, there's absolutely no way that i think about trading him.

 

i'd even bring wood back next year if he'd agree to a 1-2 mil deal for one year with a vesting option worth considerably more for a second year. there's nothing structurally wrong with him. will he get injured again? if he does next season, there's really not much invested in him to worry anyone.

 

as for prior, i have no doubt that he'll return to form.

 

 

I agree, but I'd probably go a little more than that.

[Soul]

To be honest, I thought Prior wasn't all that bad last time out. he gave up 4 runs, was charged with 3.

 

And I know that was charged as a Wild Pitch, but that ball hit at Barrett's feet----I want my catcher to be able to block that, regardless of what the scoring on it would be.

 

At times Prior seems to be pitching well, then he just loses his touch. The fastball is topping out at around 93, that's really only 1 MPH slower than what he used to throw from what I remember. The curve is spotty right now, no question.

 

I think it's just going to take time. Returning from injury is really only half over when you take the field for the first time. You still need to rebuild your mechanics, get your groove back, get your muscles tuned to tip top shape----that's why I get so p!ssy when Prior & Wood always miss spring training. People always get mad at me for it, but I know what it really means: they'll be out until June, and not pitching like themselves until the end of the year.

 

The biggest thing for Prior is, he needs to stay in shape in the offseason, be ready for Spring Training, and put in the full season. Then I think he will be fine.

[thedaymen]

Soul, I agree with everything you said, but....

 

 

And I know that was charged as a Wild Pitch, but that ball hit at Barrett's feet----I want my catcher to be able to block that, regardless of what the scoring on it would be.

 

As long as Michael Barrett is our catcher, the Cubs won't have a catcher who can block that.

[soccer10k]

even though prior has had his share of injuries, there's absolutely no way that i think about trading him.

 

i'd even bring wood back next year if he'd agree to a 1-2 mil deal for one year with a vesting option worth considerably more for a second year. there's nothing structurally wrong with him. will he get injured again? if he does next season, there's really not much invested in him to worry anyone.

 

as for prior, i have no doubt that he'll return to form.

 

 

I agree, but I'd probably go a little more than that.

 

I would be willing to bring back Wood as well for a 1 year incentive laden deal but I think he'll get more than 1-2 mil per year from some other team.

 

As for Prior, absolutely no on trading him unless we get an excellent deal in return.

[Magnetic Curses]

To be honest, I thought Prior wasn't all that bad last time out. he gave up 4 runs, was charged with 3.

 

And I know that was charged as a Wild Pitch, but that ball hit at Barrett's feet----I want my catcher to be able to block that, regardless of what the scoring on it would be.

 

At times Prior seems to be pitching well, then he just loses his touch. The fastball is topping out at around 93, that's really only 1 MPH slower than what he used to throw from what I remember. The curve is spotty right now, no question.

 

prior has been clocked at 95 several times in the latter innings. he's obviously pacing himself early. as for his curve and slider, i agree, he needs to touch them up a bit before next season.

[SoonerCubFan]

I think it's just going to take time. Returning from injury is really only half over when you take the field for the first time. You still need to rebuild your mechanics, get your groove back, get your muscles tuned to tip top shape----that's why I get so p!ssy when Prior & Wood always miss spring training. People always get mad at me for it, but I know what it really means: they'll be out until June, and not pitching like themselves until the end of the year.

 

The biggest thing for Prior is, he needs to stay in shape in the offseason, be ready for Spring Training, and put in the full season. Then I think he will be fine.

 

This is exactly the point. Right now he's in Spring Training while the rest of MLB is in mid-season form. He definitely was not "over ready" when thrust in against the Tigers, and otherwise looks exactly like one would expect in March.

 

Now, as for the causes of his incessant missing of ST, I'm at a loss. Especially this year when he comes in proclaiming to have not picked up a ball since last September. What is that all about?? How about a ton of long toss and periodic throwing off the mound all winter for a change? This is your profession after all, and it seems as though long rests only make the arm/shoulder more vulnerable, not less so.

[Sammy Sofa]

Apparently he needs to be kept in a germ-free plastic bubble filled with training equipment and a practice mound in the off-season.