How to stunt a young player's growth. by Dusty Baker

[RegulusBlue]

Dusty is killing me with his recent usage of Matt Murton, my favorite Cub. I cannot stand to see him benched over and over in favor of Freddie Bynum, whether he rides the pine the entire game, or is a victim to the ferocious power of the double switch. I despise our manager more every day that he sits our developing future stud in favor of a fair at best AAAA player.

 

While guys like Pierre and Mabry get constant clean slates with Dusty, a simple 0/3 is all it takes to get Murton on the pines. This is clearly the incorrect approach to take with a player who needs ABs to grow as a hitter. Also, Murton has been benched after three separate great games this year (he also did this to Todd Walker after a 4/5 game, sending him into that horrid streak earlier in the year). There is no way to ask what Dusty is thinking without covering this page in filthy language, so I'll refrain.

 

All you have to do is look at Cedeno's usage to see that leaving a young guy in is the way to get production from him. Cedeno languishes (with Murton) constantly at the bottom of the order, for better or worse, and he has busted a few slumps during that time, even putting together some hitting streaks. Murton gets thrown around like a rag doll on the lineup card, inevitably settling at the six or seven spot, where his current lack of pop and 2nd-3rd highest OBP on the team is totally wasted.

 

Taking into account the lack of good baseball played by the Cubs this year, I am forced to find pleasures inside the game, rather than the game itself, and our chances of winning. A Murton at bat is exactly what I look forward to every game, in addition to Walker at bats, and, of course, hilarious baserunning blunders by Jacque Jones.

 

No one on the roster has a harder time staying on the field daily (despite continued sucess and high OBP) than Matt Murton, and his career will be held back by it. I dislike Dusty Baker more than cancerous bedsores and chocolate-covered feces put together, and I hope that he gets fired very soon.

 

Fight the good fight, Matt, and please continue to work the count and take walks in spite of the worst manager in baseball history.

[soccer10k]

Is this book in the same series as "How to Completely Ignore Statistics" by Joe Morgan?

[Fred Hornkohl]

Murton has started 54 of 60 games for crying out loud. What do you want ??

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/Hornkohl/Hyperbole.jpg

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Murton has started 54 of 60 games for crying out loud. What do you want ??

 

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/Hornkohl/Hyperbole.jpg

 

I think he's talking about recently. In the last 14 games, Murton has not started in 3 of them and been removed early in 2 more.

[Sammy Sofa]

Murt don't fit the current mold. He tends to be too patient, and when he does adapt the team's moronic "hack 'n' slash" approach, he doesn't make it work, like Cedeno has been able to do. Nevermind that Cedeno was clearly an aggressive hitter to begin with and this one-note hitting philosophy flys completely in the face of all the positive things we've seen about Murton at the plate up until this point. Poor guy can't win for trying...if he does it Dusty's way, he's gonna go 0 for whatever and look terrible. If he does it the Murtowned way, he's defying Dusty, Clines and Sarge, and they're not gonna take too kindly to the flame-haired rookie not listening to their "brilliant" offensive approach.

[Pinktermite]

I agree with Fred, Murt is sixth on the team in at bats. And frankly I'm tired of all the Dusty bashing on here. Hendry gave him the players that he's working with, not the other way around. And if you notice, Neifi hasn't played much lately, so give the guy a break, he's playing with a team that's average at best.

[TXCubsFan]

Murt don't fit the current mold. He tends to be too patient, and when he does adapt the team's moronic "hack 'n' slash" approach, he doesn't make it work, like Cedeno has been able to do. Nevermind that Cedeno was clearly an aggressive hitter to begin with and this one-note hitting philosophy flys completely in the face of all the positive things we've seen about Murton at the plate up until this point. Poor guy can't win for trying...if he does it Dusty's way, he's gonna go 0 for whatever and look terrible. If he does it the Murtowned way, he's defying Dusty, Clines and Sarge, and they're not gonna take too kindly to the flame-haired rookie not listening to their "brilliant" offensive approach.

 

I like Murton, but his .600 OPS against RHPs are not good enough to play LF. He looks like a perfect platoon partner for Jones in LF next year.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player?statsId=7597

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player?categoryId=85225

[Guest]

Murt don't fit the current mold. He tends to be too patient, and when he does adapt the team's moronic "hack 'n' slash" approach, he doesn't make it work, like Cedeno has been able to do. Nevermind that Cedeno was clearly an aggressive hitter to begin with and this one-note hitting philosophy flys completely in the face of all the positive things we've seen about Murton at the plate up until this point. Poor guy can't win for trying...if he does it Dusty's way, he's gonna go 0 for whatever and look terrible. If he does it the Murtowned way, he's defying Dusty, Clines and Sarge, and they're not gonna take too kindly to the flame-haired rookie not listening to their "brilliant" offensive approach.

Murton's Take/Swing ratio has been getting steadily worse over the past month and a half. If this keeps up that lauded patience will soon go the way of the dodo and Murton will fit right in with the rest of the Cubs offense.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/bobskeeper/MurtonT-S-Tracker.jpg

[Pinktermite]

I like the platoon idea as well for next year, or later this year. Murt appears to be more of a slap hitter, like a right handed mark grace. He needs to start driving the ball a little more or I think he's doomed. Getting on base via the walk is the job of a leadoff hitter with speed who plays CF or SS, not a left fielder where there should be more punch provided. Good call.

[Mark Priors Calves]

I like the platoon idea as well for next year, or later this year. Murt appears to be more of a slap hitter, like a right handed mark grace. He needs to start driving the ball a little more or I think he's doomed. Getting on base via the walk is the job of a leadoff hitter with speed who plays CF or SS, not a left fielder where there should be more punch provided. Good call.

The ability to take a walk should be the job of every position on the team, even if the person doesn't have speed, or plays LF. That said, he really needs to improve his power numbers. Not just the homeruns, but more doubles too.

[KaiserCesar]

Murt don't fit the current mold. He tends to be too patient, and when he does adapt the team's moronic "hack 'n' slash" approach, he doesn't make it work, like Cedeno has been able to do. Nevermind that Cedeno was clearly an aggressive hitter to begin with and this one-note hitting philosophy flys completely in the face of all the positive things we've seen about Murton at the plate up until this point. Poor guy can't win for trying...if he does it Dusty's way, he's gonna go 0 for whatever and look terrible. If he does it the Murtowned way, he's defying Dusty, Clines and Sarge, and they're not gonna take too kindly to the flame-haired rookie not listening to their "brilliant" offensive approach.

Murton's Take/Swing ratio has been getting steadily worse over the past month and a half. If this keeps up that lauded patience will soon go the way of the dodo and Murton will fit right in with the rest of the Cubs offense.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/bobskeeper/MurtonT-S-Tracker.jpg

 

Wow, I just wanted to cry.

 

I've thought about Murton as a Mark Grace type of hitter in left. I think we all know this isn't the best he's going to be (unless he goes down this aggressive path too far) and the idea of a platoon with Jones should only be executed in a contention year, and this year for development. Hopefully he becomes a solid LF who can hit for pretty good power.

[Guest]

I've thought about Murton as a Mark Grace type of hitter in left. I think we all know this isn't the best he's going to be (unless he goes down this aggressive path too far) and the idea of a platoon with Jones should only be executed in a contention year, and this year for development. Hopefully he becomes a solid LF who can hit for pretty good power.

I think Murton's upside is in the Mark Grace mold, as well, though his recent struggles make me think his ceiling may not be quite that high. Still, given his relative cost I'd consider Matt a solid corner OF provided the other corner is occupied by legit slugger. (And no, despite his recent success I don't think that stud is Jones.)

 

The slow but steady erosion in Murton's patience is cause for concern and bears watching over the coming months.

[KaiserCesar]

I've thought about Murton as a Mark Grace type of hitter in left. I think we all know this isn't the best he's going to be (unless he goes down this aggressive path too far) and the idea of a platoon with Jones should only be executed in a contention year, and this year for development. Hopefully he becomes a solid LF who can hit for pretty good power.

I think Murton's upside is in the Mark Grace mold, as well, though his recent struggles make me think his ceiling may not be quite that high. Still, given his relative cost I'd consider Matt a solid corner OF provided the other corner is occupied by legit slugger. (And no, despite his recent success I don't think that stud is Jones.)

 

The slow but steady erosion in Murton's patience is cause for concern and bears watching over the coming months.

 

A legit slugging OF makes this offense fantastic if Lee is back to full strength and you platoon Murton/Jones.

 

I also don't think Carlos Lee is the stud you are looking for.

[dalgreen]

The minute the author stated that Matt Murton was his favorite Cub I knew it would be probably an emotional post. I like Matt Murton, but he's really not that good for a team that has little power and little OBP. He's not as good now as I thought he'd be four-six months ago, and I'd question anyone who isn't disappointed with Murton to this point. He's not shown the same patience as he did last year, and, sorry, I refuse to believe that he is a robot and just decided to swing at everything because Dusty told him to. I have no problem with guys who are free-swingers as long as they swing at a pitch in their "hot" zone. Swinging at breaking pitches (which Murton does all too often) when ahead in the count is not smart. Perhaps, once again, we as fans overrated another young Cub position player. I hope not since I really like Murton, but he's been disappointing at various times this season. And Cedeno is going to be good, but let's not excuse his poor OBP. That's great that his average has been around .300 and he's pretty good defensively (still too many errors), but I don't care for his .320 OBP.

 

Oh yeah, I still don't know why Bynum is on this team. You'd have to ask Hendry what "tools" Bynum brings. Hendry's ability to evaluate talent just sickens me-- although I'm glad he was right about Lee.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The minute the author stated that Matt Murton was his favorite Cub I knew it would be probably an emotional post. I like Matt Murton, but he's really not that good for a team that has little power and little OBP. He's not as good now as I thought he'd be four-six months ago, and I'd question anyone who isn't disappointed with Murton to this point. He's not shown the same patience as he did last year, and, sorry, I refuse to believe that he is a robot and just decided to swing at everything because Dusty told him to. I have no problem with guys who are free-swingers as long as they swing at a pitch in their "hot" zone. Swinging at breaking pitches (which Murton does all too often) when ahead in the count is not smart. Perhaps, once again, we as fans overrated another young Cub position player. I hope not since I really like Murton, but he's been disappointing at various times this season. And Cedeno is going to be good, but let's not excuse his poor OBP. That's great that his average has been around .300 and he's pretty good defensively (still too many errors), but I don't care for his .320 OBP.

 

Oh yeah, I still don't know why Bynum is on this team. You'd have to ask Hendry what "tools" Bynum brings. Hendry's ability to evaluate talent just sickens me-- although I'm glad he was right about Lee.

 

You can't be disappointed with Murton, considering the team his on, and the manager. This kid is going to slg as he gets older. Maybe not like a BARRY BONDS, or whatnot, but I could see him put up OPS in the Carlos Lee range, once he learns ML pitching.

 

Hendry saw Bynum at a TruVale Hardware store, and felt the kid had some tools.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You can't be disappointed with Murton, considering the team his on, and the manager. This kid is going to slg as he gets older. Maybe not like a BARRY BONDS, or whatnot, but I could see him put up OPS in the Carlos Lee range, once he learns ML pitching.

 

You can't assume that at all. It's a very real, if not probable possibility that Murton will never produce even modest power numbers.

[Andy]

Murton's 2005 numbers in 140 AB: 321/386/521/908 7 HR

 

Book or no book, numbers like that speak for themselves. I don't know what's wrong with Murt, but we as fans did not overrate him based on the above production.

[Geech]

Murton's 2005 numbers in 140 AB: 321/386/521/908 7 HR

 

Book or no book, numbers like that speak for themselves. I don't know what's wrong with Murt, but we as fans did not overrate him based on the above production.

 

If you expected that to be representative of his production this season, you overrated him. Murton's 05 numbers were inflated by BABIP and platoon splits.

[Guest]

An interesting note about Murton's platoon splits: He makes more contact against righties (84.3% vs. 82.8% of his swings) and shows more patience (1.44 T/S ratio vs. 1.29) against them as well. It doesn't seem like he sees the ball as well against righties, though; he takes more pitches in the zone against them and swings at balls out of the zone over twice as often as against lefties.

 

While he makes more contact vs. righties it's not better contact; he hits twice as many line drives off lefties than he does against righties.

[Pinktermite]

I agree with Dalgreen, there are those on these boards that fall in love with somebody for some reason and I haven't figured out why, yet they are the first to criticize a decision made by the management. I personally think Jim Hendry is a pretty good evaluator of talent, Michael Barrett was a trade that he got for nothing, Derrek Lee, Aramis...

 

NO GM is going to do this right every time. Albert P. was a 13th round draft pick for goodness sake, baseball is more random than any other sport...that's what makes it fun to watch and be involved in.

 

Murton is not what some of you think he is. He is not a power guy, not an RBI guy, but he's in there because he has potential and he has a good OBP, and is getting a chance.

 

More Dusty and Jim Hendry bashing. I love it. All the ratios and statistics and baloney thrown out on here about this percentage or that, it all comes down to the fact that some people on here would just as soon burn dusty and Jim Hendry at the stake, and then a year from now complain about who their replacements were.

 

Note the cards record since Albert went down, Tony LaRussa doesn't look like such a genius now does he? Why expect Dusty and Jim to do any better?

 

Sorry, that was a tangent in a Murton thread...forgive me.

[cubfan1955]

I agree with Dalgreen, there are those on these boards that fall in love with somebody for some reason and I haven't figured out why, yet they are the first to criticize a decision made by the management. I personally think Jim Hendry is a pretty good evaluator of talent, Michael Barrett was a trade that he got for nothing, Derrek Lee, Aramis...

 

NO GM is going to do this right every time. Albert P. was a 13th round draft pick for goodness sake, baseball is more random than any other sport...that's what makes it fun to watch and be involved in.

 

Murton is not what some of you think he is. He is not a power guy, not an RBI guy, but he's in there because he has potential and he has a good OBP, and is getting a chance.

 

More Dusty and Jim Hendry bashing. I love it. All the ratios and statistics and baloney thrown out on here about this percentage or that, it all comes down to the fact that some people on here would just as soon burn dusty and Jim Hendry at the stake, and then a year from now complain about who their replacements were.

 

Note the cards record since Albert went down, Tony LaRussa doesn't look like such a genius now does he? Why expect Dusty and Jim to do any better?

 

Sorry, that was a tangent in a Murton thread...forgive me.

So why is Dusty batting Murton in an RBI/power spot in the lineup instead of using him where it would make the most sense?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

More Dusty and Jim Hendry bashing. I love it. All the ratios and statistics and baloney thrown out on here about this percentage or that, it all comes down to the fact that some people on here would just as soon burn dusty and Jim Hendry at the stake, and then a year from now complain about who their replacements were.

 

As someone who desn't care for Dusty and Hendry, I really don't appreciate the sweeping generalizations and assumptions. The fact that you apparently haven't even taken the time to understand the arguments("ratios, statistics and baloney") presented makes it pretty difficult to even debate the issue while you rip the posters you find fault in.

[Pinktermite]

I apologize for my tone. Given that, I just think we get too caught up in stats (money ball, percentages) and use that to beat Jim H and Dusty over the head with them.

 

Baseball is random by it's very nature and to nit pick, armchair quarterback, and criticize nearly everything they do is not fair. No other team in baseball would be doing well, either, given the circumstances they are in.

 

So let the debate begin, without all the accusations.

[mul21]

I apologize for my tone. Given that, I just think we get too caught up in stats (money ball, percentages) and use that to beat Jim H and Dusty over the head with them.

 

Baseball is random by it's very nature and to nit pick, armchair quarterback, and criticize nearly everything they do is not fair. No other team in baseball would be doing well, either, given the circumstances they are in.

 

So let the debate begin, without all the accusations.

 

How is baseball random when the same pitchers win 20 games (ok, have low ERAs and good K/BB ratios) and same hitters lead the league in avg., HR, and OBP? It's not random, it has to do with throwing good pitches, swinging at good pitches, and management having enough of a clue to put the guys on the field that can do that. There are small things that are random, but most things that are good indicators of what will happen are not.

[BigSlick]

I apologize for my tone. Given that, I just think we get too caught up in stats (money ball, percentages) and use that to beat Jim H and Dusty over the head with them.

 

Baseball is random by it's very nature and to nit pick, armchair quarterback, and criticize nearly everything they do is not fair. No other team in baseball would be doing well, either, given the circumstances they are in.

 

So let the debate begin, without all the accusations.

 

Wow, I...don't have much to say about this.

 

You sound like you came back from Joe Morgan's School of Stubborn Ignorance.