Carpenter Headed to DL

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Possibly. The Cards seem hesitant to put him on the DL, though.

 

Ponson was also just activated.

[soccer10k]

Why are the Cards hesitant? Don't they know that because they are the Cardinals they can just insert somebody into Carpenter's spot in the rotation and that guy will pitch well. Also, Carpenter will not have a serious injury and won't miss any more time than expected. In fact, he'll probably miss less time than expected.

[YearofDaCubs]

Ponson's ERA is 2.92. Unbelievable.

[CubsBullsBears]

Ponson's ERA is 2.92. Unbelievable.

It's Cardinals luck. Aside from the tarp clobbering Vince Coleman, one of the laws of Cubs misery is an injury to a key Cubs player is disaster, an injury to a key Cardinals player is gold.

[Shilzzz]

Ponson's ERA is 2.92. Unbelievable.

It's Cardinals luck. Aside from the tarp clobbering Vince Coleman, one of the laws of Cubs misery is an injury to a key Cubs player is disaster, an injury to a key Cardinals player is gold.

 

how long does a team do something before it's no longer considered luck?

 

whatever, all i know is i'm tired of it not happening for the cubs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

[wolf stansson]

Don't they know that because they are the Cardinals they can just insert somebody into Carpenter's spot in the rotation and that guy will pitch well.

If the fill in does pitch well, it's not like it would be a fluke this time (Anyone remember Travis and Bud Smith in 2001 or Andy Benes from 2002?). Anthony Reyes will pitch tuesday vs. I believe Pettite.

 

The DL trip will be retroactive to Carp's last start and it sounds like it is precautionary and he'll only miss one more start.

[wolf stansson]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/3395F6368F35B52C8625717D00137F26?OpenDocument

 

Carp will be retroactively placed on the DL this tuesday.

 

The Cardinals will place starting pitcher Chris Carpenter on the disabled list before Tuesday night's game against the Houston Astros because of bursitis in his upper back, club sources confirmed Sunday, and probably will promote Anthony Reyes to assume the Cy Young Award winner's spot in the rotation.

 

Carpenter has described his situation as "no big deal" and repeatedly said he's in less discomfort than when he approached trainers during Tuesday night's game in San Francisco.

[nwg414]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

[3finger]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

[K-Town]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

[BigSlick]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

 

Except tons of empirical evidence supports it.

[KaiserCesar]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

 

Not only k/9 are figured but also HR and BB rate. I think one of those 2 might have been A LITTLE below average yesterday, no?

[K-Town]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

 

Not only k/9 are figured but also HR and BB rate. I think one of those 2 might have been A LITTLE below average yesterday, no?

 

A little below average yesterday, for whom? For alot of teams, I suspect. Regardless, a one-game example isn't going to tell us much.

 

I'm guessing that K/9 is less important if you play good defense, and more important if you play poor defense. For several years, the Cards have had a mediocre K/9 number, but have been at or near the top of the league in ERA. I'm guessing alot of that has to do with solid defense.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

 

Not only k/9 are figured but also HR and BB rate. I think one of those 2 might have been A LITTLE below average yesterday, no?

 

A little below average yesterday, for whom? For alot of teams, I suspect. Regardless, a one-game example isn't going to tell us much.

 

I'm guessing that K/9 is less important if you play good defense, and more important if you play poor defense. For several years, the Cards have had a mediocre K/9 number, but have been at or near the top of the league in ERA. I'm guessing alot of that has to do with solid defense.

 

You're proving the point. Pitchers don't have a lot of control over balls in play, that's why defense has an impact.

[Mizzou]

Great, so now they can call up Reyes who will win every game by tossing a complete game shutout.

 

And can we change the thread title since, you know, he's currently not headed to the DL, but rather possibly headed there.

[BigSlick]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

 

Not only k/9 are figured but also HR and BB rate. I think one of those 2 might have been A LITTLE below average yesterday, no?

 

A little below average yesterday, for whom? For alot of teams, I suspect. Regardless, a one-game example isn't going to tell us much.

 

I'm guessing that K/9 is less important if you play good defense, and more important if you play poor defense. For several years, the Cards have had a mediocre K/9 number, but have been at or near the top of the league in ERA. I'm guessing alot of that has to do with solid defense.

 

You're proving the point. Pitchers don't have a lot of control over balls in play, that's why defense has an impact.

 

That, and well, luck. Some pitchers might have some flukey years where well hit balls turn into lineouts, and they might have some bad years where they give up a ton of bloop singles that drop.

 

Defense certainly has a part to play, but luck may have an even bigger impact.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

And can we change the thread title since, you know, he's currently not headed to the DL, but rather possibly headed there.

 

I changed the thread title after wolf posted his link, which said Carpenter was headed to the DL on Tuesday.

[K-Town]

Ponson's peripherals aren't exactly supporting that 2.92 ERA. He's giving up baserunners, opponents are hitting him pretty well, and he's not K'ing many guys. His fielding independent ERA is 4.80 right now, so his actual ERA is likely to rise soon.

 

I agree it is likely to go up but don't put to much thought into it. How many Braves did the Cubs strike out Sunday? And how many runs did they give up? Things like baserunners and opponents average are cool but I don't care about K's as long as they get outs.

 

I'll take a one pitch at bat where a batter pops out all day compared to a six pitch strike out.

 

The theory is that pitchers don't really have much control of the outcome once the bat strikes the ball. A low K rate therefore can be a sign of impending doom. FWIW, Sir Sidney has never been able to miss bats, or judges for that matter.

 

 

That's an interesting theory, but seems pretty weak when you consider that the two top pitching teams in baseball (Detroit and St. Louis) have horrible K/9 rates. Same for the White Sox. Last year, the top 2 teams (St. Louis and Houston) were pretty mediocre when it came to K/9. Historically, K/9 has very little correlation to the success of a pitching staff.

 

Not only k/9 are figured but also HR and BB rate. I think one of those 2 might have been A LITTLE below average yesterday, no?

 

A little below average yesterday, for whom? For alot of teams, I suspect. Regardless, a one-game example isn't going to tell us much.

 

I'm guessing that K/9 is less important if you play good defense, and more important if you play poor defense. For several years, the Cards have had a mediocre K/9 number, but have been at or near the top of the league in ERA. I'm guessing alot of that has to do with solid defense.

 

You're proving the point. Pitchers don't have a lot of control over balls in play, that's why defense has an impact.

 

 

All I'm saying is that the theory (strikeouts versus no strikeouts) hasn't really been substantiated, based on the teams that have the best ERA's.

 

I think that some pitchers have a way of getting players to hit the ball weakly, if not miss the ball altogether.

[Mizzou]

And can we change the thread title since, you know, he's currently not headed to the DL, but rather possibly headed there.

 

I changed the thread title after wolf posted his link, which said Carpenter was headed to the DL on Tuesday.

Oops, I skipped right over that. Sorry!

[CivilCardinalsFan]

This doesn't freak me out in the least. I'd be ok if Carp missed two or three starts, just so we could get a really solid idea of what Reyes can do against real NL lineups. If he's a known quantity, we know if we can afford to trade Mulder, or, if Reyes on his own can bring in a quality bat.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Rest him now for the playoffs.

[3finger]

All I'm saying is that the theory (strikeouts versus no strikeouts) hasn't really been substantiated, based on the teams that have the best ERA's.

 

Well it has been substantiated to at least some extent. If this link doesn't open for you lemme know and I can give a brief summary of it, but Wagner explains it much better than I could and he also uses cool graphs.

 

Note that you're at least half-right: strikeout rates don't matter much for hitters, but for pitchers they go a long way toward separating the wheat from he chaff. And also note that this is a tendency, not an absolute rule. Guys with low K rates can have success (like the Cameraman's Friend) and guys with high K rates can have Abramoffian flameouts, but in general more Ks means better results over the long term.

[wolf stansson]

Oops, I skipped right over that. Sorry!

Admit it, I'm on your ignore list. It's ok. I know you aren't even reading this right now.

[K-Town]

All I'm saying is that the theory (strikeouts versus no strikeouts) hasn't really been substantiated, based on the teams that have the best ERA's.

 

Well it has been substantiated to at least some extent. If this link doesn't open for you lemme know and I can give a brief summary of it, but Wagner explains it much better than I could and he also uses cool graphs.

 

Note that you're at least half-right: strikeout rates don't matter much for hitters, but for pitchers they go a long way toward separating the wheat from he chaff. And also note that this is a tendency, not an absolute rule. Guys with low K rates can have success (like the Cameraman's Friend) and guys with high K rates can have Abramoffian flameouts, but in general more Ks means better results over the long term.

 

 

I'm just wondering why K-rates never correlate to ERA. Look at the teams with the best ERA over the last few years. Rarely is it a team with a high K-rate. If you look down the list, there doesn't seem to be a pattern to correlate K-rate to ERA, at all.