Baker vs. Baylor

[srbin84]

If the Cubs could replace Baker with Groove tomorrow for the rest of the season, would you be in favor of it? Who is the worse/more frustrating manager?

[Sammy Sofa]

I wish Pedro would hurl Zimmer back into the Friendly Confines, just for laughs.

[dalgreen]

If the Cubs could replace Baker with Groove tomorrow for the rest of the season, would you be in favor of it? Who is the worse/more frustrating manager?

 

I don't understand the question. This isn't Playstation. Baker/Baylor can't make Barrett not swing at an eye high fastball, they can't make Hairston lay down a bunt, they can't make pitchers not walk the leadoff hitter, etc. I think you'd have to throw Riggleman in there who had inept offenses in 1997 and 1999, but that may have been before your time.

[stitchface]

I would prefer baker.

[oldstyle81]

I would prefer baker.

 

with a different hitting and pitching coach

[srbin84]

If the Cubs could replace Baker with Groove tomorrow for the rest of the season, would you be in favor of it? Who is the worse/more frustrating manager?

 

I don't understand the question. This isn't Playstation. Baker/Baylor can't make Barrett not swing at an eye high fastball, they can't make Hairston lay down a bunt, they can't make pitchers not walk the leadoff hitter, etc. I think you'd have to throw Riggleman in there who had inept offenses in 1997 and 1999, but that may have been before your time.

 

Nice try at the cheap shot, but you're wrong, oh well. I thought starting Bynum two games in a row has a negative impact on the offense and defense, but I guess I'm just a 10 year old idiot who doesn't know anything about baseball. Thanks for educating me.

[oldstyle81]

If the Cubs could replace Baker with Groove tomorrow for the rest of the season, would you be in favor of it? Who is the worse/more frustrating manager?

 

I don't understand the question. This isn't Playstation. Baker/Baylor can't make Barrett not swing at an eye high fastball, they can't make Hairston lay down a bunt, they can't make pitchers not walk the leadoff hitter, etc. I think you'd have to throw Riggleman in there who had inept offenses in 1997 and 1999, but that may have been before your time.

 

Nice try at the cheap shot, but you're wrong, oh well. I thought starting Bynum two games in a row has a negative impact on the offense and defense, but I guess I'm just a 10 year old idiot who doesn't know anything about baseball. Thanks for educating me.

 

of course its a negative impact, he has more K's that hits

[dalgreen]

If the Cubs could replace Baker with Groove tomorrow for the rest of the season, would you be in favor of it? Who is the worse/more frustrating manager?

 

I don't understand the question. This isn't Playstation. Baker/Baylor can't make Barrett not swing at an eye high fastball, they can't make Hairston lay down a bunt, they can't make pitchers not walk the leadoff hitter, etc. I think you'd have to throw Riggleman in there who had inept offenses in 1997 and 1999, but that may have been before your time.

 

Nice try at the cheap shot, but you're wrong, oh well. I thought starting Bynum two games in a row has a negative impact on the offense and defense, but I guess I'm just a 10 year old idiot who doesn't know anything about baseball. Thanks for educating me.

 

Cheap shot? You asked about Baker/Baylor and now you bring up Bynum. I totally understand a thread about the ineptness of Bynum, but I didn't understand the question of Baker or Baylor, when the whole offense sucks right now. By the way, I have no idea how old you are -- we have a lot of teens or early 20's on here, so really you could've been 6-10 years old back during the sad Riggleman years.

[Drew Doughty]

Who said anything about the right now? All he said was who is more frustrating, you brought the here and now into the equation.

[srbin84]

Ok, that's fine. I just found it insulting. Maybe I took it the wrong way. In my opinion, Baylor usually put his best players out there and used bad strategy and Baker puts bad lineups most of the time and is inconsistent at best with his in game managing. I think they are pretty different. Personally, I'd rather have the best lineup with subpar strategy.

[sunnydoo]

Don Baylor was the worst Cub manager for at least the last quarter century.

 

Having a good lineup is the responsibility of the General Manager. If he does not provide the players for the manager to manage, then it should be his downfall. Having good players simply allows the manager to place them in the correct spots day in day out, and to work on other things like the psychology of the game. If the GM is good, then it should be a no brainer like the Mets, the Yankees, the Red Sox, etc. Think they have lineup issues? I for one can tell you that Terry Francona is very much less than a baseball genius, but Theo Epstein is damn good at his job.

 

When the team gets in trouble, sometimes a manager needs to get creative to bail them out. A great example of this is Bobby Cox in Atlanta. It is the difference between an extraordinary and a merely good manager. Dusty is not in that league. Maybe he will develop into the Larussa, Cox, or Torre class one day, but he isnt there yet and its unfair to judge him to that standard when those guys all have 10+ years more experience than he does. Dusty is trying whatever he can to shake this team up and get their heads out of their collective asses.

 

I can tell you with ARam hitting .198 and several other players not stepping up their game, that its not Dusty's fault right now. People dont want to hear that, while others say just wait most of these guys (like ARam) are 2nd half players. Well guess what? Why the hell did our brilliant GM sign all 2nd half players then? Tying Dusty's hands with the coaching staff (ie Rothschild and the others) also has not helped things. I think Dusty is very much going to enjoy Phoenix next year where he actually will have a GM that will listen to him.

 

And that will be our loss when we are stuck with Jeff freaking Torborg.

 

 

And one other thing....Baylors lifetime record is a whopping .476, while Dusty has only had 2 years where he had records worse than that. His lifetime record is over .530 and he is only one of 4 NL managers All time who have ever had 8 straight winning seasons. Baylor has never even had 3 full seasons in a row at .500. They arent even in the same class, so dont try to compare them.

[Jehrico]

Don Baylor was the worst Cub manager for at least the last quarter century.

 

Seconded. I'd take Baker over Baylor in a heartbeat, and I can't stand seeing Dusty in the clubhouse anymore.

[JC]

Don Baylor was the worst Cub manager for at least the last quarter century.

 

I'm no Don Baylor apologist. However, to be fair, he won 88 games one season with less talent than either of Baker's 88 or 89 win Cub teams had.

 

As far as your statement goes, interim or not, Bruce Kimm was awful. Baylor and Baker are a push as far as I'm concerned. At least Baylor didn't sound like an idiot in the media with Baker's frequency.

[Rob]

 

of course its a negative impact, he has more K's that hits

 

That's not always a horrible thing. But to survive with more K's than hits, you have to have extremely good power and take a ton of walks, a la Dunn.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

 

of course its a negative impact, he has more K's that hits

 

That's not always a horrible thing. But to survive with more K's than hits, you have to have extremely good power and take a ton of walks, a la Dunn.

22 plate appearances in 28 games. 34 total MLB plate appearances. Freddie is by far not a future hall of famer, but don't we have more serious concerns?

[wvcbxl]

Freddie is by far not a future hall of famer, but don't we have more serious concerns?

 

My concern is Baker puts him in the starting lineup.

When I saw both Bynum and Perez starting over Murton and Cedeno, I puked. :pukel:

[LeftCoastCubFan]

Freddie is by far not a future hall of famer, but don't we have more serious concerns?

 

My concern is Baker puts him in the starting lineup.

When I saw both Bynum and Perez starting over Murton and Cedeno, I puked. :pukel:

Murton and Cedeno started 26 of 27 games before yesterday. Dusty gives the a game off. Before the season it was Dusty doesn't play rookies. Now it's that he rests them?

[Jehrico]

Freddie is by far not a future hall of famer, but don't we have more serious concerns?

 

My concern is Baker puts him in the starting lineup.

When I saw both Bynum and Perez starting over Murton and Cedeno, I puked. :pukel:

Murton and Cedeno started 26 of 27 games before yesterday. Dusty gives the a game off. Before the season it was Dusty doesn't play rookies. Now it's that he rests them?

 

That's not the complaint. The complaint was he basically put a forfeit lineup out there. Resting them is fine. Do it on alternating days. Don't have both Perez and Bynum starting at the same time. If you have to rest starters and play crappy players, do it on a rotational basis.

[Wilson A2000]

I heard Ozzie Guillen on the radio yesterday. He was ticked and demanded a full-tema practice. Why? Failed bunt attempts. Failed bunt attempts in the AL nontheless where they aren't as important. Dusty doesn't stress fundamentals and it shows. I am not saying Dusty has to be a fiery guy, but he has to stress fundamentals. Maybe when the Cubs play the Sox at the Cell the tema can practice in the FUNdamentals section where the kids do.

[Jehrico]

I heard Ozzie Guillen on the radio yesterday. He was ticked and demanded a full-tema practice. Why? Failed bunt attempts. Failed bunt attempts in the AL nontheless where they aren't as important. Dusty doesn't stress fundamentals and it shows. I am not saying Dusty has to be a fiery guy, but he has to stress fundamentals. Maybe when the Cubs play the Sox at the Cell the tema can practice in the FUNdamentals section where the kids do.

 

Neither Baylor nor Baker had ever had this team playing fundamentally sound baseball.

 

I was really hoping Grady Little was set to take over for Baker, but LA snatched him before Dusty's contract ran out.

 

Maybe that will open the door for Joe G to come here after this debacle of a season is over in Florida.

[Wilson A2000]

Which is why Baker needs to stress fundamentals like Ozzie.

[srbin84]

I heard Ozzie Guillen on the radio yesterday. He was ticked and demanded a full-tema practice. Why? Failed bunt attempts. Failed bunt attempts in the AL nontheless where they aren't as important. Dusty doesn't stress fundamentals and it shows. I am not saying Dusty has to be a fiery guy, but he has to stress fundamentals. Maybe when the Cubs play the Sox at the Cell the tema can practice in the FUNdamentals section where the kids do.

 

It'll be the fundaMENTALS section when some of our players are in there.

[oldstyle81]

Freddie is by far not a future hall of famer, but don't we have more serious concerns?

 

My concern is Baker puts him in the starting lineup.

When I saw both Bynum and Perez starting over Murton and Cedeno, I puked. :pukel:

Murton and Cedeno started 26 of 27 games before yesterday. Dusty gives the a game off. Before the season it was Dusty doesn't play rookies. Now it's that he rests them?

 

dont give 2 players hitting close to 300 the same day off for players hitting .186, .236 and .237

[oldstyle81]

I heard Ozzie Guillen on the radio yesterday. He was ticked and demanded a full-tema practice. Why? Failed bunt attempts. Failed bunt attempts in the AL nontheless where they aren't as important. Dusty doesn't stress fundamentals and it shows. I am not saying Dusty has to be a fiery guy, but he has to stress fundamentals. Maybe when the Cubs play the Sox at the Cell the tema can practice in the FUNdamentals section where the kids do.

 

Thats why they have the ring and Pennant and we can only dream of it

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I heard Ozzie Guillen on the radio yesterday. He was ticked and demanded a full-tema practice. Why? Failed bunt attempts. Failed bunt attempts in the AL nontheless where they aren't as important. Dusty doesn't stress fundamentals and it shows. I am not saying Dusty has to be a fiery guy, but he has to stress fundamentals. Maybe when the Cubs play the Sox at the Cell the tema can practice in the FUNdamentals section where the kids do.

 

Thats why they have the ring and Pennant and we can only dream of it

 

No, that's not why at all.