The Official I Miss Moises Alou Thread

[rocket]

And you know its funny, some of the people who "miss him" are the same ones who used to grumble about him grounding out to 3b every ab or all of the DPs he hit into or his terrible fielding.

 

.

 

 

=D> =D> =D>

 

 

Of course the problem I have with the hindsight fans is that there's no guarantee that Alou would've put up similar numbers if he'd stayed with the Cubs. I don't watch many Giants games because I don't care to see/hear about Bonds, but I wonder if Daddy Alou puts up with Moises' bad baserunning, poor throws, first pitch ground outs, not calling off the SS/3B on pop ups, not giving ground to the CF on fly balls......

 

I grumble when Zambrano does his frequent annoying things. But I'll miss him when he's gone too.

[BigbadB]

I don't miss Moises one bit. Lazy, whiny, peehands jerk.

 

If I thought I detested him early on, it wasn't nearly as bad as how much I detested him when he was too lazy to pick up a ball and throw it back in. Instead, he tried to kick it into the ivy. Check swing ground out KING. Horrible defender, even worse base runner, worst batting stance of any Cub in recent memory. Worries more about what the guys in the broadcast booth are saying than what is going on out on the field. Inexplicably takes days off without actually taking himself off the line up card (Moises words, not mine). I could go on and on.

 

If he hit .400 and 80 HR's, I'd forgive him. I don't see any forgiving happening anytime soon.

[soapy]

Letting Alou walk was absolutely the right move for Hendry to make at the time. The guy didn't come close to living up to his contract 2/3 of the time he was here. He was getting old and is/was an injury concern. I don't blame Hendry for not re-signing him.

 

The problem though, is that Hendry didn't replace Alou's production. Even though it was lower then I fell it should have been, it was still better then Hollandsworth, Dubois, Jones etc.

[soapy]

I hate that Moises tanked the first two years of his contract and then mysteriously decided it was time to care when it was a contract year.

 

Wood gets excused for poor performance because of nagging injuries. Why not Moises? I remember him saying he felt healthy in 2004 for the 1st time in a while, and the results showed that. I'm assuming he still feels healthy now, and he's still producing.

Completely different situations in my mind.

 

BTW - based on the amount of time he's missed the last couple years, I'd assume he's still suffering from nagging injuries. And didn't he credit his better health in 2004 to his improved offseason workout regimen?

 

Are you mad at Maddux for just now improving his offseason workout regimen too?

 

I know you're not asking me, but I'm answering anyway. I wouldn't say I'm mad at Maddux at all, but I find it a little dissapointing that he all of the sudden decided in a contract year that he needs to work harder in the offseason.

[Guest]

I hate that Moises tanked the first two years of his contract and then mysteriously decided it was time to care when it was a contract year.

 

Wood gets excused for poor performance because of nagging injuries. Why not Moises? I remember him saying he felt healthy in 2004 for the 1st time in a while, and the results showed that. I'm assuming he still feels healthy now, and he's still producing.

Completely different situations in my mind.

 

BTW - based on the amount of time he's missed the last couple years, I'd assume he's still suffering from nagging injuries. And didn't he credit his better health in 2004 to his improved offseason workout regimen?

 

Are you mad at Maddux for just now improving his offseason workout regimen too?

Absolutely. But Maddux is starting from a position of being my favorite player of all time. And he has always worked very hard to prepare to pitch, so it isn't like he was a slacker.

[hardcorecubfan]

Sometimes it is appropriate to say "I told you so"

[Mizzou]

1. I hate that Moises tanked the first two years of his contract and then mysteriously decided it was time to care when it was a contract year.

 

2. I hate the way Moises played LF.

 

3. I hate the way Moises couldn't pick up a ball off the grass in the OF when there was a play at the plate.

 

4. I hated all the first pitch ground outs and double plays.

 

5. I hated all the distractions that came with Moises.

 

6. In addition, there was just something that rubbed me the wrong way about the guy (obviously).

I numbers your points to make it easier to respond to.

 

1. You mean like so many other players do? Plus he wasn't exactly 100% healthy the first two years. I specifically remember him saying that 2004 was the best he had felt in a long time - and the numbers that year backed that up, as have the numbers in 05 and so far this year.

 

2. Fair enough, but was last year's LF any better?

 

3. I personally think that's selective memory. Sure he had bobbling problems here and there, but what outfielder doesn't?

 

4. Me too, but don't you think his OPS (the stat that everyone treats as the all encompassing one on here) made up for that?

 

5. Distractions?? Like what?

[goonys evil twin]

4. Me too, but don't you think his OPS (the stat that everyone treats as the all encompassing one on here) made up for that?

 

In one season it made up for it. But the first two certainly did not. Moises Alou not being 100% healthy doesn't mean much to me, he's always banged up. He was banged up last year when he was great. He was banged up before he came to the Cubs and he was great. In his previous 7 years, his OPS+ was well above his career average in 4 of those 7 years. The 3 years they were at or below his career average were the 3 in Chicago. 2 of those years he was just an average slightly above average hitter, certainly not a $10m middle of the order corner OF.

 

 

 

Distractions?

 

Moises whined to the media about the Cubs pitching staff getting too much credit. He whined about the offense getting criticized too much. He whined about being called out for his atrocious baserunning. He whined about everything. Not to mention, he routinely got into arguments with umpires, ala Latroy Hawkins, with no purpose other than to piss off the umps. He handled the Bartman play about as unprofessionally as you could possibly handle a play.

 

Bottom line, in 3 years on the Cubs he hit well for one season, but everything else about his game sucked. He turned it back on after going to play with Daddy and Barry. There is no way of knowing if he would have done the same for the Cubs.

[Guest]

1. I hate that Moises tanked the first two years of his contract and then mysteriously decided it was time to care when it was a contract year.

 

2. I hate the way Moises played LF.

 

3. I hate the way Moises couldn't pick up a ball off the grass in the OF when there was a play at the plate.

 

4. I hated all the first pitch ground outs and double plays.

 

5. I hated all the distractions that came with Moises.

 

6. In addition, there was just something that rubbed me the wrong way about the guy (obviously).

I numbers your points to make it easier to respond to.

 

1. You mean like so many other players do? Plus he wasn't exactly 100% healthy the first two years. I specifically remember him saying that 2004 was the best he had felt in a long time - and the numbers that year backed that up, as have the numbers in 05 and so far this year.

 

2. Fair enough, but was last year's LF any better?

 

3. I personally think that's selective memory. Sure he had bobbling problems here and there, but what outfielder doesn't?

 

4. Me too, but don't you think his OPS (the stat that everyone treats as the all encompassing one on here) made up for that?

 

5. Distractions?? Like what?

1) That other players do it doesn't excuse Moises.

 

2) Comparing someone to a low standard doesn't make Moises' play any better.

 

3) It could be, but I remember it happening a LOT.

 

4) Careful with generalizations. Not everyone here treats OPS as an all-encompassing stat. I know I don't.

 

5) what Goony said.

[Andy]

I hate that Moises tanked the first two years of his contract and then mysteriously decided it was time to care when it was a contract year.

 

Wood gets excused for poor performance because of nagging injuries. Why not Moises? I remember him saying he felt healthy in 2004 for the 1st time in a while, and the results showed that. I'm assuming he still feels healthy now, and he's still producing.

Completely different situations in my mind.

 

BTW - based on the amount of time he's missed the last couple years, I'd assume he's still suffering from nagging injuries. And didn't he credit his better health in 2004 to his improved offseason workout regimen?

 

Are you mad at Maddux for just now improving his offseason workout regimen too?

I'm a little bitter but if he can give us a great season this year I'll get over it.

[Derwood]

No one could accidentally ground out to SS on a check swing like Moises. He did as much on check swings as Pierre does on real swings

[Mizzou]

2) Comparing someone to a low standard doesn't make Moises' play any better.

It doesn't, but it's appropriate considering that the option for 2005 was either Moises or the crappy in-house platoon.

 

Goony, good memory on Alou's distractions and all that. I had forgot about his love of arguing with umpires.

 

Arguing with umps, pissing on himself, and check swing grounders to third... I'd still take that with the production he provides rather than either of our corner OF's last year, and rather than Jacque Jones.

[Soul]

Considering the production we had in LF in 2005 and the prodcution from RF this season, that is why I miss Moises. We would be a much, much better team with him.

 

But the baserunning, Vance. Think of the baserunning.

[anemic offense]

i'll be pleasantly surprised if jacque jones even puts up alou's 2002 line of .275/.337/.419.

 

So would I, Rocket. So would I.

 

That's hardly an excuse to sign the praises of Alou.

 

It's the same as saying back to back .500 seasons is an accomplishment and we should be happy because past Cubs teams didn't do that.

 

Alou came here and failed to live up to his contract for most of the time. Not only that, he had an abysmal attitude, was incompetent in the field and a joke on the basepaths. Yes, I'd love his production, but nobody can honestly say they knew he'd produce what he produced in 2005.

 

 

Yes, yes, and yes. Moreover, with the injury history and # of underperforming FAs this team has signed over the years, he pry wouldn't have even come close to those 2005/2006 numbers anyway.

[Guest]

2) Comparing someone to a low standard doesn't make Moises' play any better.

It doesn't, but it's appropriate considering that the option for 2005 was either Moises or the crappy in-house platoon.

 

Goony, good memory on Alou's distractions and all that. I had forgot about his love of arguing with umpires.

 

Arguing with umps, pissing on himself, and check swing grounders to third... I'd still take that with the production he provides rather than either of our corner OF's last year, and rather than Jacque Jones.

Again, I don't think that re-signing your 38 year old OF to a two year contract is ever the solution. The problem isn't that Moises was let go. The problem is what Hendry did with the OF subsequent to that decision.

 

The comparison that should be made is to the best of the other OF options that were available. Not to what we actually have had.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Considering the production we had in LF in 2005 and the prodcution from RF this season, that is why I miss Moises. We would be a much, much better team with him.

 

But the baserunning, Vance. Think of the baserunning.

 

I try to forget.

[BigbadB]

It doesn't, but it's appropriate considering that the option for 2005 was either Moises or the crappy in-house platoon.

 

There were players available in trade and via free agency that would have made the team better. If the Cubs wouldn't have blown the Sosa scandal into a full blown media circus, they could have improved the team.

 

Floyd, JD Drew, Ordonez, Beltran, the list goes on and on of players that were available after the Cubs dumped Moises. That they chose to go with Hollandsworth and later Dubois isn't the fault of the fans who are glad Moises is gone. Neither of those two were OUR choices as Moises replacement.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It doesn't, but it's appropriate considering that the option for 2005 was either Moises or the crappy in-house platoon.

 

There were players available in trade and via free agency that would have made the team better. If the Cubs wouldn't have blown the Sosa scandal into a full blown media circus, they could have improved the team.

 

Floyd, JD Drew, Ordonez, Beltran, the list goes on and on of players that were available after the Cubs dumped Moises. That they chose to go with Hollandsworth and later Dubois isn't the fault of the fans who are glad Moises is gone. Neither of those two were OUR choices as Moises replacement.

 

I was pretty sure it was going to be Floyd AND Ordonez.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Considering the production we had in LF in 2005 and the prodcution from RF this season, that is why I miss Moises. We would be a much, much better team with him.

 

But the baserunning, Vance. Think of the baserunning.

 

After watching Jacque Jones run the bases, we would be better off with Moises in RF.

[Mizzou]

It doesn't, but it's appropriate considering that the option for 2005 was either Moises or the crappy in-house platoon.

 

There were players available in trade and via free agency that would have made the team better. If the Cubs wouldn't have blown the Sosa scandal into a full blown media circus, they could have improved the team.

 

Floyd, JD Drew, Ordonez, Beltran, the list goes on and on of players that were available after the Cubs dumped Moises. That they chose to go with Hollandsworth and later Dubois isn't the fault of the fans who are glad Moises is gone. Neither of those two were OUR choices as Moises replacement.

I could've worded that better, but what I meant was looking back on last year's left field combination, Moises would've by far been a better option.

 

And Tim, didn't Moises say he would've taken a one year deal to stay here? I specifically remember him saying he would've taken less money than the 2005 option that the Cubs declined, but I don't know if he ever said how long of a deal he was willing to take.

[thedaymen]

Count me on the "happy he's gone don't let the door hit you in the on the way out." crowd.

 

I was happy when the Cubs signed him, but he wore out his welcome. I remember looking at the Baseball Weekly cover with him, Sammy, and the Crime Dog and thinking "thank goodness we got this guy to protect Sammy since McGriff has lost his magic amulet and can't hit anymore." Well, Moises then went on to dissapoint for two years in a row.

 

By 2004, when he finally began having a monster year, I was already turned off on him. I do remember him mouthing off about how nobody respected the offense right before a series in Philadelphia where he got one hit. I remember him getting cheers in Shea Stadium when he came up to bat after getting thrown out after the shortstop kicked the ball because he didn't run all the way to first, then didn't get to a routine flyball the next inning because he badly misjudged it. To top it off, his one base error became a two base one when his hands, apparently hardened from too much urine soaking, couldn't pick the ball of the outfield grass. Oh, the cheers were from Mets' fans.

 

I was happy to see him go, and that he's having big numbers in SF doesn't make me regret it. Like Tim said, giving a huge contract to a 28 year old attitude case who has had bad years two out of the last three isn't the difference between a team competing and a team not competing. The crime of that offseason was trashing Sammy's charectar and abilities then spending all winter wondering why nobody wanted to trade for him before sending him and the salary of the entire Devil Rays' roster to Baltimore for Jerry Hairston Jr.

[XZero771679666304]

Considering the production we had in LF in 2005 and the prodcution from RF this season, that is why I miss Moises. We would be a much, much better team with him.

 

But the baserunning, Vance. Think of the baserunning.

 

After watching Jacque Jones run the bases, we would be better off with Moises in RF.

 

Maybe, but let's not forget what a butcher Moises was in the OF.

 

I do miss his bat, though.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Considering the production we had in LF in 2005 and the prodcution from RF this season, that is why I miss Moises. We would be a much, much better team with him.

 

But the baserunning, Vance. Think of the baserunning.

 

After watching Jacque Jones run the bases, we would be better off with Moises in RF.

 

Maybe, but let's not forget what a butcher Moises was in the OF.

 

I do miss his bat, though.

 

Exactly. How he hasn't ended up a DH is a mystery to me.

[thedaymen]

Exactly. How he hasn't ended up a DH is a mystery to me.

 

Answer: Dude wanted to play OF. Dude plays for his Dad.

[frostwyrm]

At the time he left the Cubs Alou was a horribly bad gamble to produce as he has since leaving. The Cubs are like a poker player who could have won big if he had drawn to an inside straight. It sucks to lose that way, but it's still a terrible idea to draw to an inside straight, and it always will be.