second worst thing about lee's injury

[abuck1220]

...behind, of course, the fact that the cubs' best player is going to miss two months...

 

...is that the cubs already have a built in excuse in case they don't contend this year. instead of being forced to admit/address the mistakes they've made, we'll just hear about how tough it was to contend w/o lee.

 

their shortcomings won't be because they gave a below average jacque jones a ridiculous 3 year deal. it won't be because they gave rusch two years and a spot in the rotation. it won't be because they totally bungled wood's bullpen experiment last year. it won't be because they finished dead last in the NL in walks. it won't be because baker is an incompetent in game manager. nope, it'll be because lee was hurt. and he'll be healthy and ready to go at the start of 2007, so no changes will be made.

[srbin84]

Yeah, that same old tired annual excuse. And what can/will we do about it but accept it and keep following them?

[Banedon]

Should help get Baker a new contract. Either he overcomes the injuries to help the Cubs to a successful playoff run, or he falls short due to "injuries beyond his control".

 

Yay.

[CubfaninCA]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

[abuck1220]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

[CubinNY]

You can blame Hendry and Dusty. If any team had it's two best pitchers and best hitter out for 2 months they wouldn't be good either.

 

To which I just shake my head.

[CubfaninCA]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

[abuck1220]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

i'd have preferred rusch to have never sniffed the roster, let alone the rotation. and i'd like to see wood in the rotation now, even if it meant he didn't get to pitch meaningless innings out of the pen last year.

[badgercub]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

They let Scott Seabol play in 59 games last year for crying out loud, and they still won the division.

[badger1679666666]

You can blame Hendry and Dusty. If any team had it's two best pitchers and best hitter out for 2 months they wouldn't be good either.

 

To which I just shake my head.

 

I had a talk with a casual fan outside the Cabooze in MPLS the other night, if he is the prototypical Cubs casual fan, it's no wonder why people call our fanbase uninformed.

 

He thought

 

1) Neifi was great because of last year, and that he was the least of our worries

 

2) Todd Walker shouldn't be starting because he's only good in April.

 

3) Jockstrap has great defense and it's not his fault he started off poorly.

 

4) JP has been a great lead off man

 

5) Dusty is a great manager.

 

No joking, he argued these points with me and told me this year was our year.

[CubfaninCA]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

pujols >>> rolen.

 

also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis??

 

i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money.

[abuck1220]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

pujols >>> rolen.

 

also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis??

 

i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money.

 

the rotation is the least of my concerns right now (especially if rusch gets the boot). the bench, rf, cf, and a general lack of concern for plate discipline are problems that will be ignored b/c any lack of success this season will be attributed to lee's injury.

[badgercub]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

pujols >>> rolen.

 

also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis??

 

i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money.

 

Hendry went into the season knowing that Wood was going to be out for a while. And with the history of injuries over the last few years, he had no contingency plan, I know Lee isn't a guy you plan on being hurt, but what about Ramirez? What about Prior? Hendry had plenty of money in his budget this offseason and wasted it by overpaying guys with little or no talent, ie. Neifi Perez, Jacque Jones, and Glendon Rusch. Hendry has got to shoulder a big part of the blame and I would imagine Dusty had some input as to the players on the roster.

[Andy]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

They let Scott Seabol play in 59 games last year for crying out loud, and they still won the division.

Exactly. STL's contingency plan wasn't any better than the Cubs' was, but because they had fewer injuries, and because they were fortunate enough to get better production out of their replacements, they won the division.

[Irrelevant Dude]

And this is only the second worst thing??? I think it is by far the worst result of his injury because it could cost us not only this year, but 2-3 years down the road due to a likely Baker contract extension.

[stitchface]

as BK pointed out, Lee's injury is likely to cost the cubs 2 or 3 wins. The reason St. Louis won without Rolen is because they were a good team. The Cubs without Lee are not that much worse than with Lee. In other words, the Lee injury hurts, but is not a valid reason for this team to fail on its own. Its a bad excuse.

[CubinNY]

as BK pointed out, Lee's injury is likely to cost the cubs 2 or 3 wins. The reason St. Louis won without Rolen is because they were a good team. The Cubs without Lee are not that much worse than with Lee. In other words, the Lee injury hurts, but is not a valid reason for this team to fail on its own. Its a bad excuse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Good teams find a way to overcome injuries. Or good teams overcome injuries becuase they are built to withstand injuries. Choose freely.

[CubfaninCA]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

pujols >>> rolen.

 

also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis??

 

i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money.

 

Hendry went into the season knowing that Wood was going to be out for a while. And with the history of injuries over the last few years, he had no contingency plan, I know Lee isn't a guy you plan on being hurt, but what about Ramirez? What about Prior? Hendry had plenty of money in his budget this offseason and wasted it by overpaying guys with little or no talent, ie. Neifi Perez, Jacque Jones, and Glendon Rusch. Hendry has got to shoulder a big part of the blame and I would imagine Dusty had some input as to the players on the roster.

 

who should have been signed then?? the free agency market was pretty poor.

[CubfaninCA]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

pujols >>> rolen.

 

also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis??

 

i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money.

 

the rotation is the least of my concerns right now (especially if rusch gets the boot). the bench, rf, cf, and a general lack of concern for plate discipline are problems that will be ignored b/c any lack of success this season will be attributed to lee's injury.

 

yes, pierre & jones lack plate discipline and pierre's been a disappointment so far, but the six other starters have plate discipline.

[MPrior]

St. Louis would have a difficult time contending w/out Pujols, who's probably the only hitter in the NL who's better than Lee.

 

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury.

 

just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt.

 

so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer?

 

I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down.

 

pujols >>> rolen.

 

also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis??

 

i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money.

 

the rotation is the least of my concerns right now (especially if rusch gets the boot). the bench, rf, cf, and a general lack of concern for plate discipline are problems that will be ignored b/c any lack of success this season will be attributed to lee's injury.

 

yes, pierre & jones lack plate discipline and pierre's been a disappointment so far, but the six other starters have plate discipline.

 

Cedeno doesn't. Neifi (who is getting most of the starts at 2B) certainly doesn't. Aramis isn't great at it, although he's certainly better than some of our schlubs. Mostly he gets pitched around, though. Even Walker, who we laud as having great plate discipline, is really only exceptional when you compare him to the rest of the Cubs (he's definitely much more than adequate at it, though. It's just that, in comparison with the rest of the league, he's "above average" rather than "vastly beyond basically everybody else"). Barret and Hairston also do a decent job at it, and Murton's pretty durn good. We are, currently, as UMFan83 pointed out, last in all of MLB in walks. I think that's pretty telling. Our organizational approach to plate discipline certainly seems to be one of negligence.

[abuck1220]

 

yes, pierre & jones lack plate discipline and pierre's been a disappointment so far, but the six other starters have plate discipline.

 

yet the cubs are last in the NL in walks.

[soccer10k]

as BK pointed out, Lee's injury is likely to cost the cubs 2 or 3 wins. The reason St. Louis won without Rolen is because they were a good team. The Cubs without Lee are not that much worse than with Lee. In other words, the Lee injury hurts, but is not a valid reason for this team to fail on its own. Its a bad excuse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Good teams find a way to overcome injuries. Or good teams overcome injuries becuase they are built to withstand injuries. Choose freely.

 

Losing Lee is not the same as losing Rolen. Losing Lee is equivalent to the Cards losing Pujols. They are not the same thing. Losing Rolen would be like losing Aramis. Lee is far more valuable than Rolen is. I still don't buy in that losing Lee will only cost the Cubs 2-3 wins this year. I'm think at least 5. This means the Mabry/Hairston/Neifi are going to play for 2 months. There is absolutely no way that substituting those three in for Lee would only cost the Cubs 2 games. Absolutely no way.

 

That being said, if the Cubs end up with a record like 2005, then there is no excuse for losing. But if the Cubs miss the playoffs by a couple games, you can probably attribute that to Lee's injury. So based on how the Cubs finish this year should determine whether the "Lee got injured excuse" is valid.

[CubfaninCA]

Last in walks? ESPN has them tied for 26th.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=type2&sort=walks&split=0&season=2006

[abuck1220]

Last in walks? ESPN has them tied for 26th.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=type2&sort=walks&split=0&season=2006

 

 

yet the cubs are last in the NL in walks.

 

last in the nl in walks. even if i was saying they were last in mlb, saying they were actually tied for third from the bottom isn't helping your argument that they have good plate discipline.