Pujols' "bat-throwing" incident (explanation)

[K-Town]

Dare I enter this thread?

 

I was telling a friend at the game last night that I'm torn on Albert's off field actions. On one hand, I'm hating the bat flipping and showboating, but on the other hand his comments about booing Encarnacion and Izzy were pretty stand up. You're risking the ire of your fans when you condemn their actions and rather than just bask in his great start, he stuck up for two underperforming guys.

 

One says individual, the other says team. And he's always the first guy out of the dugout congratulating other guys.

 

Dare I follow up into this thread? :wink:

 

From an opposing viewpoint, D-Lee last year defended his teammates against booing and didn't show up opposing pitchers throughout an MVP-calibre year. No one had a problem with D-Lee. . . okay, I have to leave before I get too embroiled in this argument.

 

He probably didn't show up the opposing pitchers because the opposing pitchers never felt the need to show HIM up. Is that possible? Again, Pujols didn't just show the pitcher up for the sake of showing him up. He's an MVP, and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. He deserves more respect than Perez gave him. I don't think it's unfair of him to demand that respect. He's earned it.

 

If he made a habit of showboating, then maybe some of you could build a case against him. He did it ONE TIME, for ...... yes....... selfish reasons. Then he admitted that he shouldn't have done it. Relatively speaking, I think that most of you can find a whole slew of players to hate for REAL reasons before you dig up an imperfection of Albert Pujols' to hate him for. All I'm learning here is that some of you WANT a a reason to hate players, and will settle for any petty thing that you can find to attack them with.

[snoodmonger]

All I'm learning here is that some of you WANT a a reason to hate players, and will settle for any petty thing that you can find to attack them with.

 

I hate him now because of your posts.

Edited April 25, 2006 by snoodmonger

[MPrior]

First off, this post is not trying to defend Zambrano - he certainly has his issues (personally, I think he's nastier to his teammates than to his opponents, but whatever). BUT - I think the Pujols/Zambrano comparison is way off here. For the most part, when Zambrano celebrates, it's exactly that - celebration. He's not trying to "show up" anybody. While he obviously does do this on occasion when he's really pissed off (Jim Edmonds, anybody?), he's more often than not just really pumped up after getting out of a jam, or making a particularly important or good play (this seemed to be the case in his last start). This incident with Pujols was a particularly exaggerated attempt to intentionally show Perez up - he was not just celebrating an important home run. These are two very different things.

[gus_dog]

I really liked Pujols when he broke in to MLB.

 

Now...., not so much. Whether he is a jerk or not, I don't know, but his actions when everyone is watching make him look like an arrogant poseur.

 

Please, don't throw out some other player's name and ask me what I think of them. I am referring to Pujols, and Pujols only with this comment.

 

I would never advocate throwing at a player with intent to harm, however, Mr. Pujols better look out for some chin music next time he faces Perez - efforts at truce notwithstanding.

 

I mean really, the players are into machismo, and showboating waaayyyy to much. It should be about the game, and the team, IMO, not about me myself and I. I know, times have changed, but not necessarily for the better. Also, it doesn't mean things have to stay this way.

 

You realize that the pitcher did the showboating first, right? Pujols didn't start this thing. If a batter showboats, you expect your pitcher to retaliate. So when a pitcher showboats, shouldn't you expect the batter to retaliate?

 

Yes, no, and no. Just because one person acts like an idiot does not give someone else the right to do the same without repercussions.

 

Do you think it does? Why? If someone stole my truck, does that give me the right to steal theirs?

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, ever.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're human. Whatever. Doesn't make it right, and it doesn't excuse it - period!

[MPrior]

He probably didn't show up the opposing pitchers because the opposing pitchers never felt the need to show HIM up. Is that possible? Again, Pujols didn't just show the pitcher up for the sake of showing him up. He's an MVP, and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. He deserves more respect than Perez gave him. I don't think it's unfair of him to demand that respect. He's earned it.

 

In no way does Pujols deserve any more respect on that level because of his capability with the bat. You could make an argument based on his strength of character, but basically, it's inappropriate to do that to any hitter, no matter how good a hitter they are.

 

If he made a habit of showboating, then maybe some of you could build a case against him. He did it ONE TIME, for ...... yes....... selfish reasons. Then he admitted that he shouldn't have done it. Relatively speaking, I think that most of you can find a whole slew of players to hate for REAL reasons before you dig up an imperfection of Albert Pujols' to hate him for. All I'm learning here is that some of you WANT a a reason to hate players, and will settle for any petty thing that you can find to attack them with.

 

Um, I haven't really seen anyone saying they hate Pujols, or saying that they hate him for this reason - they're merely pointing out that the action, no matter what Pujols says afterwards, is pretty indefensible. I don't hate Pujols. And there are plenty of players who I do have much, much better reasons not to like (Jim Edmonds, yet again). That doesn't change the fact that the bat flip was completely ridiculous.

[Blueheart05]

What I said was true and if you read the whole comment, instead of just focusing on the word "fake," you'd understand my position. His image is one of only goodness when he clearly has flaws. BTW, I'm talking about baseball related matters. Is it lost on you that Pujols' homerun didn't mean anything in that game? Therefore, his actions were purely selfish. It would have made more sense to save the flip for last night's game. One could argue that the move would have psyched out the pitcher and help lead to a win.

 

If Pujols' run didn't mean anything, then why even finish the game? The Cards were down 7 runs in the 4th inning when he hit the home run, but to say that it meant NOTHING is going a little too far.

 

It didn't mean anything when you consider they lost 12-4 (IIRC the score was well out of hand at that point and Suppan, Rincon, et al were not really stopping the bleeding)

[treebird]

i liked pujols until k-town started making all these posts

 

now i hate him

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

All I'm learning here is that some of you WANT a a reason to hate players, and will settle for any petty thing that you can find to attack them with.

 

I hate him now because of your posts.

 

:lmao:

[wolf stansson]

What is the deal with all the anger lately. People can't discuss anything without it getting negative. I think people are identifying with their team's emotionally a little more than healthy. This is entertainment people, not life.

[Garwilly]

What is the deal with all the anger lately. People can't discuss anything without it getting negative. I think people are identifying with their team's emotionally a little more than healthy. This is entertainment people, not life.

 

 

Bandwagon!! :lol:

[indifferent]

Dare I enter this thread?

 

I was telling a friend at the game last night that I'm torn on Albert's off field actions. On one hand, I'm hating the bat flipping and showboating, but on the other hand his comments about booing Encarnacion and Izzy were pretty stand up. You're risking the ire of your fans when you condemn their actions and rather than just bask in his great start, he stuck up for two underperforming guys.

 

One says individual, the other says team. And he's always the first guy out of the dugout congratulating other guys.

 

Dare I follow up into this thread? :wink:

 

From an opposing viewpoint, D-Lee last year defended his teammates against booing and didn't show up opposing pitchers throughout an MVP-calibre year. No one had a problem with D-Lee. . . okay, I have to leave before I get too embroiled in this argument.

 

Hey, I said I was torn. But good for D. Lee!

[RynoRules]

What is the deal with all the anger lately. People can't discuss anything without it getting negative. I think people are identifying with their team's emotionally a little more than healthy. This is entertainment people, not life.

 

Agreed.

[SouthSideRyan]

What is the deal with all the anger lately. People can't discuss anything without it getting negative. I think people are identifying with their team's emotionally a little more than healthy. This is entertainment people, not life.

 

A Cardinal fan!! LET'S GET EM!!

[beer_man]

I really liked Pujols when he broke in to MLB.

 

Now...., not so much. Whether he is a jerk or not, I don't know, but his actions when everyone is watching make him look like an arrogant poseur.

 

Please, don't throw out some other player's name and ask me what I think of them. I am referring to Pujols, and Pujols only with this comment.

 

I would never advocate throwing at a player with intent to harm, however, Mr. Pujols better look out for some chin music next time he faces Perez - efforts at truce notwithstanding.

 

I mean really, the players are into machismo, and showboating waaayyyy to much. It should be about the game, and the team, IMO, not about me myself and I. I know, times have changed, but not necessarily for the better. Also, it doesn't mean things have to stay this way.

 

 

He faced him again last night and hit his 12th HR off of him...

 

He said what a lot of you are saying in the last paragragh of the article which you need to click on the link to read. Rolen told him he shouldn't have done it and he said that as well. He said it made him look like a fool and he should not have done it...he did not flip the bat during last nights HR...I found it interesting to hear the whole story, right or wrong, they are human. My favorite part was that it made him mad so he studied the film even more...

 

things happen...he watches his HR's, when he walks he leaves the bat at the plate but this is the first time he has ever done anything too over the top. Unless it becomes a habit it really is a non-topic...

[Chocolate Milk]

Pujols was trying to throw his bat to an orphan boy in the crowd.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pujols was trying to throw his bat to an orphan boy in the crowd.

 

Lost in all of Pujols' celebration was Edmonds diving (unecessarily?) to stop the bat, then beating said orphan boy with it before breaking it Z-Style and handing him the knob end.

[Blueheart05]

Pujols was trying to throw his bat to an orphan boy in the crowd.

 

LOL

[wolf stansson]

In my opinion, this thread is just a bad idea. Trying to point the hypocrisy to one team's fans by pointing out that "your guy does it too (Jacque, A-Ram, Lee, Z, whoever) so why do you get mad when our guy does it (Edmonds, Pujols, Tony, whoever else you can think of)" is just pointless. Nobody is going to concede anything here.

[snoodmonger]

In my opinion, this thread is just a bad idea. Trying to point the hypocrisy to one team's fans by pointing out that "your guy does it too (Jacque, A-Ram, Lee, Z, whoever) so why do you get mad when our guy does it (Edmonds, Pujols, Tony, whoever else you can think of)" is just pointless. Nobody is going to concede anything here.

 

I concede that K-Town is wrong. Are you happy?

[wolf stansson]

Are you happy?

This isn't about the Wolf. This is about the tire spinning that is this thread.

[snoodmonger]

Are you happy?

This isn't about the Wolf. This is about the tire spinning that is this thread.

 

i was just messing around.

[indifferent]

Are you happy?

This isn't about the Wolf. This is about the tire spinning that is this thread.

 

I'd rather bide my time in this thread than read the hurtful things Mike Scott's saying in the other thread.

[wolf stansson]

Are you happy?

This isn't about the Wolf. This is about the tire spinning that is this thread.

 

i was just messing around.

Me too. I don't often refer to myself as the wolf.

[Andy]

What is the deal with all the anger lately. People can't discuss anything without it getting negative. I think people are identifying with their team's emotionally a little more than healthy. This is entertainment people, not life.

 

A Cardinal fan!! LET'S GET EM!!

:lol:

 

That's why I love this board, I can count on reading at least 4-5 posts like this a day that make me giggle.

[FergieJ31]

In my opinion, this thread is just a bad idea. Trying to point the hypocrisy to one team's fans by pointing out that "your guy does it too (Jacque, A-Ram, Lee, Z, whoever) so why do you get mad when our guy does it (Edmonds, Pujols, Tony, whoever else you can think of)" is just pointless. Nobody is going to concede anything here.

 

Wise words my man.

 

My 0.002 cents:

 

Alright, I used to be a baseball purist and hated to see ANY sort of celebration in baseball, regardless of what uniform the guy wore. Even HR curtain calls ... when did THAT start and become acceptable? Talk about showing up the opposing team.

 

The game has changed a bit and some showmanship is now generally considered ok, as long as it's not too obnoxious. I guarantee if Pujols were a Cub, only a few purists here would be slamming him for what he did. But that's different from Z though ... AP's flip was a premeditated slam on the opponent, while Z vents / celebrates spontaneously. No comparison.

 

I do think Pujols was wise to say what he did in the press, to explain himself, because it was out of bounds even by today's standards. Anyone remember a game a year or two ago at Wrigley (I think it was 2004) when Pujols sort of gestured at the crowd after knocking a HR? He commented later that he needed to "shut up some fans" or something like that. Similarly classless, ego-driven, obnoxious and unnecessary (I'm not saying Pujols is classless - only that particular act plus the Perez one).

 

But Cub fans should realize Pujols usually plays the game right, and respectfully, so he should be cut some slack. He's a class act off the field too. But he (and a lot of other baseball players) ought to emulate his 3B ... when Rolen goes yard there's no hop, no bat flip, no gestures and no curtain calls. He puts his head down and circles the bases, as if he's done it a time or before.