“Walks are underrated, overrated."

[CubinNY]

So Says Professor Maddux:

 

“Walks are underrated, overrated. It’s not how many guys you don’t walk or do walk. It’s how you pitch to lineups.”

 

Maddux has always walked guys who tend to hit him well, in situations where the potential damage inflicted would be minimial.

 

I thought this was an interesting comment and worthy of a little discussion.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=178913

Edited April 18, 2006 by CubinNY

[elconq05]

Walks are only a problem if you are doing it when you don't want to.

 

Pitching around guys in key situations or pitching around guys who hit you well, is smart baseball.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If he keeps pitching like he has, he can say whatever he wants. :D

 

He's right, and he's done it masterfully over the years. Why let someone go deep when you can put him on and get the next guy?

[Chocolate Milk]

He's right in that there is no point in throwing meatballs to a guy who'll smoke them just for the sake of not walking him.

[rocket]

I don't really understand the quote.

[K-Town]

I don't really understand the quote.

 

Me either. Are they underrated, or are they overrated?

 

And doesn't walking guys have something to do with "how you pitch to the lineup"?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This reminds me of the story where Maddux let Bagwell break up a shutout by launching a home run so that later in the season in a more crucial situation(happened to be the playoffs) he knew Bagwell would be looking for that and got him out. Crafty guy that Maddux.

[badgercub]

I don't really understand the quote.

 

Me either. Are they underrated, or are they overrated?

 

And doesn't walking guys have something to do with "how you pitch to the lineup"?

 

I think he was trying to say that some overrate and some underrate them and he just thinks they are what they are, depends on the situation.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't really understand the quote.

 

Me either. Are they underrated, or are they overrated?

 

And doesn't walking guys have something to do with "how you pitch to the lineup"?

 

I think he was trying to say that some overrate and some underrate them and he just thinks they are what they are, depends on the situation.

 

Basically walking guys when you want to, and not walking guys when you don't want to.

[CubinNY]

What he is saying is that they are both overrated and underrated. If you walk the #8 hitter who has a decent history against you with two outs on three occasions, it is not that big of a deal.

 

If you walk the #2 hitter and the next guy hits a double, it is a big deal.

 

So the guy walked four, but only one really hurt.

[UBlink]

Another way of saying it is all walks are not created equal.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Another way of saying it is all walks are not created equal.

 

That's not what my stats sheet says. 8)

[Chocolate Milk]

A reporter probably said something like "Greg, you had no walks today and have had few in your career. How important is it to not walk people?" and that was his answer.

[UBlink]

Another way of saying it is all walks are not created equal.

 

That's not what my stats sheet says. 8)

 

Well, who are you going to believe, your stat sheet or Professor Maddux? :-k

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Another way of saying it is all walks are not created equal.

 

That's not what my stats sheet says. 8)

 

Well, who are you going to believe, your stat sheet or Professor Maddux? :-k

 

I was kidding. Maddux made a good point.

[Andy]

This reminds me of the story where Maddux let Bagwell break up a shutout by launching a home run so that later in the season in a more crucial situation(happened to be the playoffs) he knew Bagwell would be looking for that and got him out. Crafty guy that Maddux.

Leo Mazzone loves that guy. I got the feeling from that story in Cubs Nation and the other one about getting someone to pop up to third that he could talk about him for days running.

[K-Town]

So if you walk a guy and get burned, it's a bad thing. If you walk a guy and don't get burned, it's not a bad thing.

 

Is that some new information?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So if you walk a guy and get burned, it's a bad thing. If you walk a guy and don't get burned, it's not a bad thing.

 

Is that some new information?

 

I think you're missing his point. Maddux is trying to say that not all walks are a sign of lack of control. Sometimes they are, but sometimes you may deliberately pitch around someone to set up another AB.

 

There was an article in the Sporting News on Maddux right around the time that he was going for win number 300 where this was dealt with. I wish I still had it, but it was a print article and I'm pretty sure I've thrown it away.

[goonys evil twin]

Before anybody tries to suggest Maddux thinks its fine to walk a lot of guys, as long as you do it at the right time, he's only got 911 career BB in over 20 years of pitching. He's never had more than 100 in a season and is typically between 20-45. He's got a k/bb in excess of 3:1. There are very few guys who have given up fewer walks/9 IP in their career (Lieber might be one).

 

Giving up walks is bad. Giving up any one individual walk in a certain situation might not hurt you, but over time you need to keep your walk rates down to have great success.

[soccer10k]

So if you walk a guy and get burned, it's a bad thing. If you walk a guy and don't get burned, it's not a bad thing.

 

Is that some new information?

 

He's saying that if you intentionally pitch around somebody then it isn't a bad thing whereas if you just can't find the plate. Whether or not you get burned is another thing entirely. Obviously if a guy is raking you and the next guy hasn't hit you well, then it might be a good idea to walk the first guy. If the second guy ends up getting a hit or a home run, then it's just bad luck because you faced the guy that, statistically, had done worse against you.

[TB_11]

Giving up walks is bad. Giving up any one individual walk in a certain situation might not hurt you, but over time you need to keep your walk rates down to have great success.

 

Exactly. For a pitcher who has a relative amount of control over who gets a free pass (like Maddux), walks mean something completely different than for a pitcher who issues a lot of walks because he lacks control (early 90s Randy Johnson).

[mhuber92211]

IIRC, Maddux went through the same theories back before the start of the 1998 season. Agai, I beleive he was coming off a season in which he only walked a handful of people and he made a comment to a reporter that he expects to walk more people this upcoming season because walks aren't necassarily the wrong decision. I remember this being a segment on BBTN and it left an impression on me as it was then I relized that Maddux was just as much of a contributor to the pitching sucess of the Braves as Mazzone was.

[Laura]

The Associatd Press / The Daily Texan[/url]"]

 

April 8, 2001

 

Greg Maddux wasn't at his sharpest but had enough control to set the National League record for consecutive innings without a walk. ...

 

"You want to talk about the streak I'm more proud of the fact that I've only lost, I think, one game since May 30," Maddux said. "I also feel like there's games I've won because I've walked someone. And it's not fair to the other 24 guys on this team if you're out there trying not to walk someone."

 

Maddux (15-6) pitched six innings to extend his streak without a walk to 70 1/3 innings, surpassing the record of 68 set by Christy Mathewson in 1913 and matched by Randy Jones in 1976. Bill Fischer holds the major league record with 84 1/3 consecutive innings set in 1962.

 

"The streak's nice, but it's important that it doesn't interfere with what we're trying to do, which is win," Maddux said. "I thought I pitched real good, except for the fourth, when they did a real good job of hitting."

 

It's fun to think that it's just part of the Master Plan when he does walk someone.

[mhuber92211]

good find Serena!

[soccer10k]

The Associatd Press / The Daily Texan[/url]"]

 

April 8, 2001

 

Greg Maddux wasn't at his sharpest but had enough control to set the National League record for consecutive innings without a walk. ...

 

"You want to talk about the streak I'm more proud of the fact that I've only lost, I think, one game since May 30," Maddux said. "I also feel like there's games I've won because I've walked someone. And it's not fair to the other 24 guys on this team if you're out there trying not to walk someone."

 

Maddux (15-6) pitched six innings to extend his streak without a walk to 70 1/3 innings, surpassing the record of 68 set by Christy Mathewson in 1913 and matched by Randy Jones in 1976. Bill Fischer holds the major league record with 84 1/3 consecutive innings set in 1962.

 

"The streak's nice, but it's important that it doesn't interfere with what we're trying to do, which is win," Maddux said. "I thought I pitched real good, except for the fourth, when they did a real good job of hitting."

 

It's fun to think that it's just part of the Master Plan when he does walk someone.

 

That's still an amazing streak.