Lee Signs (report)

[NorthsideAvenger]

As has been mentioned, Dopirak will be traded sooner if not later. He doesn't have a future in this organization any longer. He can only play first, his options will run out before Lee's deal is up, and he's not versatile enough for a bench role.

 

I'm not saying he'll be moved this season, but I'd be really surprised if he's in the organization one year from now.

 

I wouldn't deal Dopirak in your "sooner" part of the equation. I would hold onto him thi yr, cause now Dopirak has to audition for a job with another team. This is where Hendry has to be patient, and wait for Dopirak's "value" to be at his highest.

[NorthsideAvenger]

There is a "angle" that hasn't been talked about....

 

I think this contract pretty much gurantees (barring some unforeseen problems) that ARam will be back with the Cubs. The reason...few teams have a 1-2 that has as great of "on the field" chemistry as Lee/ARam (perhaps Ortiz/Ramirez maybe Jenkins/Lee), so either ARam keeps his option, or opts out and signs a new contract, one way or another...I believe the Cubs have their 1st/3rd basemen's for the next 4-5 yrs.

[Jehrico]

Maybe I'm not reading the vibe from some of these posts right, but I don't think Dope's future should have had any impact on extending Lee. There's maybe a 1/1,000,000 chance right now that Dope will ever approach the season DLee had last year. By the time he's out of options, it should be about the last year of DLee's deal? He could be traded, DLee could go sour and waive his NTC clause and be traded in 3 years, there's still alot of possibilities out there. I wouldn't worry too much about Dope's future yet, it's a little premature.

[RynoRules]

Maybe I'm not reading the vibe from some of these posts right, but I don't think Dope's future should have had any impact on extending Lee. There's maybe a 1/1,000,000 chance right now that Dope will ever approach the season DLee had last year. By the time he's out of options, it should be about the last year of DLee's deal? He could be traded, DLee could go sour and waive his NTC clause and be traded in 3 years, there's still alot of possibilities out there. I wouldn't worry too much about Dope's future yet, it's a little premature.

 

Agreed. Someone please explain to me why I should worry enough about an unproven, injured minor league player when we have a top 5 major league first baseman in the prime of his career.

[Guest]

I think you guys have the wrong idea here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should have decided Lee's fate based upon Dopirak. I think we are just discussing the impact that the extension has had on his future.

[CubinNY]

I think you guys have the wrong idea here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should have decided Lee's fate based upon Dopirak. I think we are just discussing the impact that the extension has had on his future.

 

If Dope can rebound from the injured foot he will be of high value. However, I never really thought of him as much of a 1st base prospect. I think he had over 20 errors there last year.

 

Dope has DH written all over him.

[srbin84]

I think you guys have the wrong idea here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should have decided Lee's fate based upon Dopirak. I think we are just discussing the impact that the extension has had on his future.

 

If Dope can rebound from the injured foot he will be of high value. However, I never really thought of him as much of a 1st base prospect. I think he had over 20 errors there last year.

 

Dope has DH written all over him.

 

20 errors at first base is absolutely terrible.

[craig]

The rumors about the Lee deal sound very favorable to me. He's a really good player right now, and a good team guy, durable, and a fine fielder. (Or at least has been to date.) The Cubs needed him to get signed, given how central he is to the middle of the lineup. To get a premium guy at a good age without gross overpay, that's excellent. at $13-14/year, that's not cheap but the market calls for that sort of thing.

 

Hendry sustains his general record of getting pretty reasonable deals. (Alf and Jacque Jones deals being perhaps the exceptions...)

 

Of course, all of this is premature, based on some national report of the dollars. Routinely when the real details come out, things can look very different.

 

What I'm most interested in is whether he's got a free-agency opt-out option after a year or two. Aram's big deal, for example, was really only a one-year extension sure, but with a few dozen extra million guaranteed to ARam in case he got badly hurt or fell off a cliff. Aram can go free agent after this year if he has a good season. Lee could have gone FA after this year; will this contract give him the option to go FA after next year, ala Aram's? I hope not.

 

On Dope: Tim is correct in that this doesn't particularly leave any doors open for Dopirak to ever become a starter for the Cubs. Not much of a factor for Dope, I wouldn't think. His issue is whether he can get to the major leagues and become good enough to possibly start in the major leagues. But that's a sufficiently improbable outcome, if he becomes good enough to be a big-league starter, he should be thrilled. If the issue of whether he starts for the Cubs or for somebody else becomes an issue, that means his career will have taken a rather pleasant turn.

 

Remember, last year he was a bad-running, defensive butcher who had a .670-OPS and a .289-OPB while not being especially young for his league. For a good-fielding catcher, that might be one thing. For a future DH, not so good! When you adjust his OBP to factor in his GDP, his adjusted OBP is around .250! So he was kind of the Florida State League's Corey Patterson last year.

 

I think there was some indication he might have been poised for a rebound year. And certainly given how awful he was, he needed a huge rebound to have much value. Hopefully that will happen.

 

But he is such a long shot, and had so many flaws last year, it's hoping for a lot to imagine him growing into very serious trade value.

 

Hope it happens. Sure seems like a nice, positive guy. Would be cool if things work out for him.

[CubinNY]

I think you guys have the wrong idea here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should have decided Lee's fate based upon Dopirak. I think we are just discussing the impact that the extension has had on his future.

 

If Dope can rebound from the injured foot he will be of high value. However, I never really thought of him as much of a 1st base prospect. I think he had over 20 errors there last year.

 

Dope has DH written all over him.

 

20 errors at first base is absolutely terrible.

 

I could be wrong on the number, but I am pretty sure it was unussaly high.

[Flames24Rulz]

press conference is on CSN right now.

[E.J.]

press conference is on CSN right now.

 

You should do a shot for every time Hendry calls Lee a "gamer". :lol:

 

Let us unfortunate souls know how the press conference went.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think you guys have the wrong idea here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should have decided Lee's fate based upon Dopirak. I think we are just discussing the impact that the extension has had on his future.

 

Exactly. My comments on Dopirak were in no way meant to say I didn't think we should have extended Lee. I'm in 100% agreement on the extension. My comments were that this extension ends any possibility that Dopirak has a future in this orgainzation...regardless of his development.

[Flames24Rulz]

Hendry basically stated what the contract is, ripped up the old one, current one takes place this year and the next 4 years..said repeatedly that Lee deserved to get paid as he is one of the best players in the league.

 

Lee said he's glad the contract situation is done and now he can focus on playing baseball 100%. He said that one of the reasons he wanted to stay was to be part of the team that wins the world championship and to see the city go crazy. Said it's a good feeling to know that he won't be traded since he has a home in Chicago. He said Dusty is one of the best manager's in the game and he wants Baker to get his extension as well :x

[E.J.]

Hendry basically stated what the contract is, ripped up the old one, current one takes place this year and the next 4 years..said repeatedly that Lee deserved to get paid as he is one of the best players in the league.

 

Lee said he's glad the contract situation is done and now he can focus on playing baseball 100%. He said that one of the reasons he wanted to stay was to be part of the team that wins the world championship and to see the city go crazy. Said it's a good feeling to know that he won't be traded since he has a home in Chicago. He said Dusty is one of the best manager's in the game and he wants Baker to get his extension as well :x

 

Anyone else starting to feel like the team pretty much has to bomb this year or Dusty is getting that extension?

[srbin84]

Hendry basically stated what the contract is, ripped up the old one, current one takes place this year and the next 4 years..said repeatedly that Lee deserved to get paid as he is one of the best players in the league.

 

Lee said he's glad the contract situation is done and now he can focus on playing baseball 100%. He said that one of the reasons he wanted to stay was to be part of the team that wins the world championship and to see the city go crazy. Said it's a good feeling to know that he won't be traded since he has a home in Chicago. He said Dusty is one of the best manager's in the game and he wants Baker to get his extension as well :x

 

Anyone else starting to feel like the team pretty much has to bomb this year or Dusty is getting that extension?

 

Yeah, pretty much.

[craig]

So, no indication from the press thing that there are any mongo incentive possibilities, or a forest of complicating contingency things or free-agency opt-outs or stuff like that? More or less a fairly straight contract? If so, that's fabulous.

 

I am frequently interested in the repeated support that Cub players express for Dusty. Sometimes you think it's just certain players. But it seems to be an awful lot of them, and often from guys who might surprise you. Is it just the dumb players who aren't smart enough to see Dusty's flaws? No, Lee, one of the brightest guys on the team, supports him too. Murton, who seems pretty bright, speaks very positively about him. Is it just the players who have gotten opportunity or had things go right for them under Dusty? No. A guy like Walker, who has felt victimized to large extent, has spoken very positively about Dusty. Hairston, who might have felt victimized, has been a strong Dusty supporter. Etc..

 

Is Dusty Mr. Brainiac? Perhaps not. But it seems that most baseball players aren't either, and perhaps Dusty's level is better at getting through to them. Or maybe Cubs aren't so dumb, and see some things in Dusty relative to other managers in the industry that does make him relatively good, at least by comparison.

 

I know this board feeds on anti-Dusty, Cubs are idiots philosophy. But it occurs to me that perhaps it's at least slightly possible the Cubs support Dusty so much because there is some basis for appreciating him?

 

I'm not sure I've heard as much of that pro-Dusty stuff from the pitchers, I admit. So I suppose it's at least possible that it is only selective pro-Dusty voices, or that they aren't speaking from the heart but only doing the PR-correct thing. But at present, I'm inclined to believe that it's genuine.

Edited April 11, 2006 by craig

[WrigleyinEngland]

I'm not going to ruin the day by talking Dusty!!. What i will say is that Lee comes across as a class individual who will be peforming in his prime for our team. I'd like to see Dopirak play some LF , although with the way Murton is setlling in i don't like his chances there either.

[CubinNY]

I am frequently interested in the repeated support that Cub players express for Dusty. Sometimes you think it's just certain players. But it seems to be an awful lot of them, and often from guys who might surprise you. Is it just the dumb players who aren't smart enough to see Dusty's flaws? No, Lee, one of the brightest guys on the team, supports him too. Murton, who seems pretty bright, speaks very positively about him. Is it just the players who have gotten opportunity or had things go right for them under Dusty? No. A guy like Walker, who has felt victimized to large extent, has spoken very positively about Dusty. Hairston, who might have felt victimized, has been a strong Dusty supporter. Etc..

 

Is Dusty Mr. Brainiac? Perhaps not. But it seems that most baseball players aren't either, and perhaps Dusty's level is better at getting through to them. Or maybe Cubs aren't so dumb, and see some things in Dusty relative to other managers in the industry that does make him relatively good, at least by comparison.

 

I doon't think one can take seriously anything a player says about a current manager.

 

And quite frankly, I don't care what a player says. Look at Joe Morgan. He is the poster boy for playing smart baseball, but when he talks it is almost like he was a different human being then the one who played baseball.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Hendry basically stated what the contract is, ripped up the old one, current one takes place this year and the next 4 years..said repeatedly that Lee deserved to get paid as he is one of the best players in the league.

 

Lee said he's glad the contract situation is done and now he can focus on playing baseball 100%. He said that one of the reasons he wanted to stay was to be part of the team that wins the world championship and to see the city go crazy. Said it's a good feeling to know that he won't be traded since he has a home in Chicago. He said Dusty is one of the best manager's in the game and he wants Baker to get his extension as well :x

 

Anyone else starting to feel like the team pretty much has to bomb this year or Dusty is getting that extension?

 

 

Dusty isn't a bad manager. So the Dusty detractors need to put their venom away. He isn't great, but he isn't terrible. Dusty makes the same amount of goofy calls a yr, as say LaRussa, Cox, Sciossa, etc, etc. The problem with Baker is that he is an "underdog" type manager. His teams do better when they are the underdogs. 2002 Giants and 2003 Cubs DIFFERENTLY fit that mold. Dusty doesn't handle expectations well.

 

So, I do believe---win or lose---this should be Dusty's last yr in Chicago. I think he would be absolutely perfect in Seattle or another underachieving franchise.

[jjgman21]

 

 

Dusty isn't a bad manager. So the Dusty detractors need to put their venom away. He isn't great, but he isn't terrible. Dusty makes the same amount of goofy calls a yr, as say LaRussa, Cox, Sciossa, etc, etc. The problem with Baker is that he is an "underdog" type manager. His teams do better when they are the underdogs. 2002 Giants and 2003 Cubs DIFFERENTLY fit that mold. Dusty doesn't handle expectations well.

 

So, I do believe---win or lose---this should be Dusty's last yr in Chicago. I think he would be absolutely perfect in Seattle or another underachieving franchise.

 

I hate Dusty, but think the criticism goes a little far.

 

I think it is noteworthy that Bobby Cox brought in Remlinger to face Burrell, Utley and Ryan Howard yesterday. the not hard to predict results

 

Burrell - deep flyout

Utley - beanball

Howard - hard hit single to right.

 

then Cox removed Rem when righty David Bell came up.

 

Dusty isn't the only one that has trouble reading split stats.

[MikeyLikesCubbies]

And quite frankly, I don't care what a player says. Look at Joe Morgan. He is the poster boy for playing smart baseball, but when he talks it is almost like he was a different human being then the one who played baseball.

 

Yes, but Joe Morgan is a Hall of Famer, and he can make those calls from a Hall of Famer's perspective. You don't get into the Hall of Fame unless you know smart baseball. By the way, did you know that Joe Morgan is in the Hall of Fame? Because he's very modest and doesn't talk about it very often.

[SanJoseCubsFan]

He is universally loved from all players that have played for him past and present. (see sports illistrated pole each year) It is not just current players. Secondly, that is insulting to say you don't care what any player thinks. I don't know what you do for a living but what if I can in and said it doesn't matter what you think about your profession cause all people in your profession are idiots. Joe Morgan may be an example but not all people who play baseball are idiots and don't understand the game. A job of a professional sports manager is to get the team ready to play and have egos fit together. Many discount this but it is critical in professional sports to get big egos to work as a team with defined roles that they feel they can accept.

 

 

I am frequently interested in the repeated support that Cub players express for Dusty. Sometimes you think it's just certain players. But it seems to be an awful lot of them, and often from guys who might surprise you. Is it just the dumb players who aren't smart enough to see Dusty's flaws? No, Lee, one of the brightest guys on the team, supports him too. Murton, who seems pretty bright, speaks very positively about him. Is it just the players who have gotten opportunity or had things go right for them under Dusty? No. A guy like Walker, who has felt victimized to large extent, has spoken very positively about Dusty. Hairston, who might have felt victimized, has been a strong Dusty supporter. Etc..

 

Is Dusty Mr. Brainiac? Perhaps not. But it seems that most baseball players aren't either, and perhaps Dusty's level is better at getting through to them. Or maybe Cubs aren't so dumb, and see some things in Dusty relative to other managers in the industry that does make him relatively good, at least by comparison.

 

I doon't think one can take seriously anything a player says about a current manager.

 

And quite frankly, I don't care what a player says. Look at Joe Morgan. He is the poster boy for playing smart baseball, but when he talks it is almost like he was a different human being then the one who played baseball.

[CubinNY]

He is universally loved from all players that have played for him past and present. (see sports illistrated pole each year) It is not just current players. Secondly, that is insulting to say you don't care what any player thinks. I don't know what you do for a living but what if I can in and said it doesn't matter what you think about your profession cause all people in your profession are idiots. Joe Morgan may be an example but not all people who play baseball are idiots and don't understand the game. A job of a professional sports manager is to get the team ready to play and have egos fit together. Many discount this but it is critical in professional sports to get big egos to work as a team with defined roles that they feel they can accept.

 

 

Managing a baseball team is not a popularity contest. If the Cubs don't perform then the manger has to go.

 

Great managers not universally loved by their players:

 

Bobby Cox

Billy Martin

Casy Stengel

Leo Derousher

Jim Leyland

Chuck Tanner

Dick Williams

Joe McCarthy

Sparky Anderson

[SanJoseCubsFan]

Great, then if he does well in the W/L column he should stay right. He has a great W/L % in his career. I agree if the cubs don't perform he should be fired that is the nature of ALL pro sports. I should have said players love playing for him AND think he is a good manager.

 

 

He is universally loved from all players that have played for him past and present. (see sports illistrated pole each year) It is not just current players. Secondly, that is insulting to say you don't care what any player thinks. I don't know what you do for a living but what if I can in and said it doesn't matter what you think about your profession cause all people in your profession are idiots. Joe Morgan may be an example but not all people who play baseball are idiots and don't understand the game. A job of a professional sports manager is to get the team ready to play and have egos fit together. Many discount this but it is critical in professional sports to get big egos to work as a team with defined roles that they feel they can accept.

 

 

Managing a baseball team is not a popularity contest. If the Cubs don't perform then the manger has to go.

 

Great managers not universally loved by their players:

 

Bobby Cox

Billy Martin

Casy Stengel

Leo Derousher

Jim Leyland

Chuck Tanner

Dick Williams

Joe McCarthy

Sparky Anderson

[oldcubsfan]

 

I doon't think one can take seriously anything a player says about a current manager.

 

And quite frankly, I don't care what a player says. Look at Joe Morgan. He is the poster boy for playing smart baseball, but when he talks it is almost like he was a different human being then the one who played baseball.

 

I would guess what the players have to say is far more important than the opinion of people on a message board. The players know who is a good manager and who is a bad manager.

 

It really is no surprise why people who work in baseball have such a low regard for most message boards. I truly doubt that there ever has been decision made in baseball based on the opinions expressed on any message board.