The U.S. performance in the WBC

[Abe Frohman]

I have always heard that Japanese baseball was equal to AA or AAA level baseball here in the states. After watching a few games of the World Baseball Classic, and now that our All-Star caliber US team has been eliminated, a few things have been made clear to me:

 

* All the talent in the world will get you nothing if you can't play the game right. Bunting, hit-and-run, stealing bases, solid pitching, and playing balls-to-wall defense are STILL what win baseball games.

 

* We can no longer accept this prima-donna BS from today's Major Leaguers that they are the best talent in the world. Even though it is probably true, you still have to play like the best to be the best.

 

* Never underestimate your opponant.

 

Thoughts?

[bhogg]

Did you guys catch the interview with chipper jones?

 

He thought it would have benefited the club if they'd play in November -- when the US is at the top of its game.

 

I know the carribean guys had just completed their respective seasons. I'm not so sure about the Koreans and Japanese, but I guess I can see Chipper's point.

 

 

Just food for thought.

 

Don't mame / kill / destroy me, please.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think this structure would be good in WBC years.

 

Play the first round during the middle of March.

Play the second round during an extended All-Star Break.

Play the semi-finals and finals in November.

[bhogg]

I think this structure would be good in WBC years.

 

Play the first round during the middle of March.

Play the second round during an extended All-Star Break.

Play the semi-finals and finals in November.

 

 

I never thought of it that way.

 

I'd bet that MLB teams wouldn't like their guys playing during the AS break, but crazier things have happened.

 

Kinda sucks that an idea as good as the WBC has so many issues with timing.

[BWcubs21]

I think this structure would be good in WBC years.

 

Play the first round during the middle of March.

Play the second round during an extended All-Star Break.

Play the semi-finals and finals in November.

 

Thats a pretty interesting setup, what would that do to the all-star game if all the stars were getting ready or playing for their country? I do like it better than the current setup. But I think a November or December series would be best.

[Illini Iceman]

I have always heard that Japanese baseball was equal to AA or AAA level baseball here in the states. After watching a few games of the World Baseball Classic, and now that our All-Star caliber US team has been eliminated, a few things have been made clear to me:

 

* All the talent in the world will get you nothing if you can't play the game right. Bunting, hit-and-run, stealing bases, solid pitching, and playing balls-to-wall defense are STILL what win baseball games.

 

* We can no longer accept this prima-donna BS from today's Major Leaguers that they are the best talent in the world. Even though it is probably true, you still have to play like the best to be the best.

 

* Never underestimate your opponant.

 

Thoughts?

 

I don't care about Bud's ego trip. It would have given me no great pride to see the USA win. This type of event will never prove anything because in baseball there is no way to get the timing right so all the players are at their optimal performance level unless you interefered with what REALLY matters, the MLB season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think this structure would be good in WBC years.

 

Play the first round during the middle of March.

Play the second round during an extended All-Star Break.

Play the semi-finals and finals in November.

 

 

I never thought of it that way.

 

I'd bet that MLB teams wouldn't like their guys playing during the AS break, but crazier things have happened.

 

Kinda sucks that an idea as good as the WBC has so many issues with timing.

 

If structured that way, players would have more of a ST to get into shape before games. The All-Star break scenario would only involve 8 teams instead of 16. Players would be in great shape and so there's not the risk of watching as much sloppy baseball.

 

The November games would only invlove four countries, so there would be fewer players there as well.

[Soul]

It doesn't say anything about our players that they lost. That's silly. Our guys aren't even in ST form yet, to say nothing of being in mid-season form, or post season form.

 

And that's precisely why the way the WBC is set up isn't good. We've got alot of important players going full-bore in March, before they are traditionally ready to play. I suppose players could start preparing themselves earlier-----but then why have ST at all?

 

And besides, after a long 6-month season of 162 ballgames + playoffs, I can totally understand ballplayers wanting to take a little time off. Which is probably why so many refused to play the WBC. They knew they would have to sacrifice some of their downtime, or else risk injury. That's a hell of a position to put players in, especially when you've got teams like Cuba who are primed and ready to play from the get-go.

 

I'm glad some people are enjoying this, but it's got alot of problems.

[rocket]

It's a fun tournament, but I don't think this means anything. It's a crapshoot like the playoffs.

[Abe Frohman]

Personally, I like the WBC. I think it means a lot, and it is better baseball than the Olympics ever provided. I really enjoyed it, and the competition was excellent.

 

It could be the best thing Bud Selig has ever done. God knows he needed something good on his report card.

[CuseCubFan69]

Personally, I like the WBC. I think it means a lot, and it is better baseball than the Olympics ever provided. I really enjoyed it, and the competition was excellent.

 

It could be the best thing Bud Selig has ever done. God knows he needed something good on his report card.

 

If Bud gets rid of the DH I'll admire him forever.

[YearofDaCubs]

One word...embarrassing.

[CuseCubFan69]

MLB sends all of their All-Star players to Japan to play after the season and it's always close so I don't understand why you guys would think they would dominate the WBC. Add to that these guys (US) are not in baseball shape while a lot of the other countries were means that the US had even more to overcome IMO.

[Monco]

One word...embarrassing.

Damn right!The MLB season matters more ,this tournament doesn't matter etc.Excuses.Thats probably the attitude the players took.Thats why I'll be watching Japan play in about 5 minutes.They thought they were so far superior that they could play themselves into shape while winning it all.Its obvious who wanted it more.

[NorthsideAvenger]

One word...embarrassing.

Damn right!The MLB season matters more ,this tournament doesn't matter etc.Excuses.Thats probably the attitude the players took.Thats why I'll be watching Japan play in about 5 minutes.They thought they were so far superior that they could play themselves into shape while winning it all.Its obvious who wanted it more.

 

TRY AND TELL THAT TO THE NON-US PLAYERS of the tournament. Besides nothing ever matters, until there is some history. By 2009...HOPEFULLY, the WBC will become a more settled and entertaining tournament, and by then....who would need the Olympics.

[Tim]

I'm still merely amazed that Saint Jeter could not will the USA to victory with all his clutchy goodness.

[USSoccer]

I'm still merely amazed that Saint Jeter could not will the USA to victory with all his clutchy goodness.

 

St. Jeter works in mysterious ways.

[BigbadB]

Maybe instead of using the out of shape, uninspired multi millionaires, they should send out the kids who are battling for major league jobs. Some of them played winter ball, which puts them in better game shape as well.

 

One thing I noticed at the game yesterday, the Cuban catcher was beating the runner to 1st on infield grounders to back up plays. It's not all about fundamentals, but when every player on the team is playing the game the way it's supposed to be played, you certainly improve your chances.

 

Wily Mo Pena, on the other hand, was barely rounding 1st when the left fielder dropped a fly ball. He should have been standing at 2nd. It seems like a lot of these guys just assume that once you reach the majors it's no longer important to hustle.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Northwestern State is clearly a better basketball team than Iowa....

[jaydee]

Well the US players are barely in ST form but I am guessing if you had them play 7 game series against Japan/Korea/Cuba/Mexico they would win all those series still. Maybe have it at a different time of year, and change the format?

[soccer10k]

The big problem I had with the WBC was with the format of the tournament in that the same teams kept having to play each other. The US played Mexico twice. Japan and Korea played three times. When they narrowed the field from sixteen to eight, they should have sent teams that played in the same group. For example, Pool 1 should have contained something like Korea, USA, Puerto Rico, and Venezuela and Pool 2 should have had Japan, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and Cuba. That way we wouldn't have had to see the same machups all over again.

[Guest]

Well the US players are barely in ST form but I am guessing if you had them play 7 game series against Japan/Korea/Cuba/Mexico they would win all those series still. Maybe have it at a different time of year, and change the format?

This was my biggest concern with the tournament's setup as well. Baseball isn't well-suited to single game matchups; there's a reason why baseball plays 2-10 times as many games per season than any other sport. If the intent of the tournament is to compare each country's level of play then the format should be changed to better gauge that. Larger pools for pool play, 3-5 game series for the semis/finals, etc. Otherwise the tournament is more or less just an exhibition. A highly entertaining exhibition that I've enjoyed very much, mind you, but it really doesn't tell you a whole lot about what country has the best players.

[BWcubs21]

Well the US players are barely in ST form but I am guessing if you had them play 7 game series against Japan/Korea/Cuba/Mexico they would win all those series still. Maybe have it at a different time of year, and change the format?

This was my biggest concern with the tournament's setup as well. Baseball isn't well-suited to single game matchups; there's a reason why baseball plays 2-10 times as many games per season than any other sport. If the intent of the tournament is to compare each country's level of play then the format should be changed to better gauge that. Larger pools for pool play, 3-5 game series for the semis/finals, etc. Otherwise the tournament is more or less just an exhibition. A highly entertaining exhibition that I've enjoyed very much, mind you, but it really doesn't tell you a whole lot about what country has the best players.

 

 

Problem is how are you going to schedule that? That seems like a great idea, but time wise is would take a long time to finish that tourney.

[1908]

Well the US players are barely in ST form but I am guessing if you had them play 7 game series against Japan/Korea/Cuba/Mexico they would win all those series still. Maybe have it at a different time of year, and change the format?

This was my biggest concern with the tournament's setup as well. Baseball isn't well-suited to single game matchups; there's a reason why baseball plays 2-10 times as many games per season than any other sport. If the intent of the tournament is to compare each country's level of play then the format should be changed to better gauge that. Larger pools for pool play, 3-5 game series for the semis/finals, etc. Otherwise the tournament is more or less just an exhibition. A highly entertaining exhibition that I've enjoyed very much, mind you, but it really doesn't tell you a whole lot about what country has the best players.

Basketball isn't much -- if at all -- more suited to single game match ups, but I don't view the NCAA tournament as an exhibition. It's just a different animal compared to the NBA playoffs, and I enjoy both formats as a basketball fan.

[Tim]

Well the US players are barely in ST form but I am guessing if you had them play 7 game series against Japan/Korea/Cuba/Mexico they would win all those series still. Maybe have it at a different time of year, and change the format?

This was my biggest concern with the tournament's setup as well. Baseball isn't well-suited to single game matchups; there's a reason why baseball plays 2-10 times as many games per season than any other sport. If the intent of the tournament is to compare each country's level of play then the format should be changed to better gauge that. Larger pools for pool play, 3-5 game series for the semis/finals, etc. Otherwise the tournament is more or less just an exhibition. A highly entertaining exhibition that I've enjoyed very much, mind you, but it really doesn't tell you a whole lot about what country has the best players.

Basketball isn't much -- if at all -- more suited to single game match ups, but I don't view the NCAA tournament as an exhibition. It's just a different animal compared to the NBA playoffs, and I enjoy both formats as a basketball fan.

The best baseball teams win about 60% of the time and the worst teams still win almost 40% of the time. In basketball, the best teams win more than 70% of their games and the worst teams don't crack 30%.

 

It takes more games to reach a 90-95% confidence level of having the best baseball teams win than it does in basketball.