Cubs front Office :Tejeda 3rd best in BB?

[Neuby]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060217rogers,1,2465320.column?coll=cs-home-utility

 

They value both of them highly but were willing to consider giving one of them up because Hendry believes Tejada ranks behind only two other players, Albert Pujols and Alex Rodriguez. You can argue you never should trade young pitchers who can dominate, but Tejada forced Hendry to consider making an exception.

 

 

 

I wonder what there criteria was in selecting Tejada as the third best player in the game?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

[VVMattVV]

Lee > Tejada

[sethuel1]

Abreu>Tejada

Cabrera>Tejada

Giles>Tejada

 

etc, etc, etc

[Warpticon]

Dang, and here I was expecting them to say he was the third best at his POSITION.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Dang, and here I was expecting them to say he was the third best at his POSITION.

 

He might be the best at his position, if you don't take into account defense.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Lee > Tejada

 

Intresting question. Money and team needs aside, would you rather have Lee or Tejada? Both are 30, Lee puts up better numbers however he plays 1B.

 

PECOTA projects 06 VORP:

 

Tejada - 52.5

Lee - 51.1

 

That's so close it's pretty much meaningless.

 

Lee plays better defense however it's 1B vs SS so that's not quite fair. SS's tend to age a little better than 1B but considering Lee's athleticism he might be an exception.

 

Close call for me.

[Shilzzz]

Lee > Tejada

 

Intresting question. Money and team needs aside, would you rather have Lee or Tejada? Both are 30, Lee puts up better numbers however he plays 1B.

 

PECOTA projects 06 VORP:

 

Tejada - 52.5

Lee - 51.1

 

That's so close it's pretty much meaningless.

 

Lee plays better defense however it's 1B vs SS so that's not quite fair. SS's tend to age a little better than 1B but considering Lee's athleticism he might be an exception.

 

Close call for me.

 

yeah that's tough. you could say there are alot more power guys at first than short, so lee could be easier to replace, but he really is the all around package, power, avg, speed, glove, etc, etc. and iirc, lee is younger. so i think you'd have to take lee.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

In my opinion, the thing that seperates Tejada from Lee is that Miguel has done it over several years while Derek has only put up one year of fantastic numbers. If Derek puts up numbers close to what he put up last year, I will consider him equal to or better than Tejada.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In my opinion, the thing that seperates Tejada from Lee is that Miguel has done it over several years while Derek has only put up one year of fantastic numbers. If Derek puts up numbers close to what he put up last year, I will consider him equal to or better than Tejada.

 

They are the same age, so it's an interesting comparison:

 

OPS+ 2000-2004

 

Lee: 122, 113, 131, 135, 114; Average 123

Tejada: 112, 112, 122, 117, 126; Average 117.8

 

Lee plays better defense, and has similar durability.

Edited February 19, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[bmkhawk]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

I really don't see how.

 

Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable.

 

You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third.

 

And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

I really don't see how.

 

Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable.

 

You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third.

 

And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st.

 

Agreed. I love D-Lee, and his defense and speed are advantages over Miggy. But their overall production are very similar, and Tejada plays a much harder position to get production from.

 

As much as I love Lee, I'd take Pujols over him of course, and I'd regard any of Todd Helton, Adam Dunn, Mark Teixeira and perhaps a year or two ago, Carlos Delgado, as just as good.

 

At SS I'm a Jeter fan, and of course A-Rod if he played there. But then there's Miggy, and quite a drop-off after that.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

I really don't see how.

 

Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable.

 

You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third.

 

And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st.

 

Agreed. I love D-Lee, and his defense and speed are advantages over Miggy. But their overall production are very similar, and Tejada plays a much harder position to get production from.

 

As much as I love Lee, I'd take Pujols over him of course, and I'd regard any of Todd Helton, Adam Dunn, Mark Teixeira and perhaps a year or two ago, Carlos Delgado, as just as good.

 

At SS I'm a Jeter fan, and of course A-Rod if he played there. But then there's Miggy, and quite a drop-off after that.

 

I'd rate Miggy top 3 at SS, easily, but not overall. Pujols, ARod, Manny Ramirez, and Cabrera are all better players.

 

It's not Miggy's ability that concerns me. It's giving up a young arm, who is dominant unless he's getting run into by someone or taking a line drive off an elbow, for a 30 year old player. That's a huge no-no and I'd rather Hendry didn't screw us over for the next 5-10 years by trading Prior or Z. I'd rather not have that whiner on this team anyway. He had his pick of clubs when he was a FA and now he's complaining about where he ended up. Sweet.

 

Swapping Prior for Tejada just exchanges one piece for another. You have to look at the differences in production not just at SS, but also with Prior leaving the rotation. Does the swap leave us better off in the short term? I doubt it, since we'd probably be bringing in a minor leaguer into the rotation. It certainly wouldn't be the smart long term decision for this ballclub given the ages of the players in question.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

I really don't see how.

 

Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable.

 

You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third.

 

And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st.

 

Even metrics that rate Tejada's strengths(durability, position scarcity) highly don't put him in the top 10 in baseball.

[bmkhawk]

Based on what? Last year's stats?

 

Who is in the top 10?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Based on what? Last year's stats?

 

Yes, the best year of Tejada's career. And it's not like a series of fluke years kept him out. Pujols, Vlad, Ortiz, A-Rod, Delgado. Bay, Cabrera, Young and Teixeira continued their young success as well. Hafner looks like he's here to stay too.

[bmkhawk]

Sorry, I am a little confused. Last year was not Tejada's best year. 2004 was, rather easily.

[UK1679666180]

The shelf life of a SS is different than a 1B, similar to a HB in football compared to a WR.

 

You decline faster at SS as it is a more demanding position, but most importantly, the skills that decline quicker w/age (speed/quickness) are much more important as a SS than 1B.

 

I think Tejada as a SS right now has more value than Lee at 1B, but that could likely change in the near future.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sorry, I am a little confused. Last year was not Tejada's best year. 2004 was, rather easily.

 

2004: 126 OPS+

2005: 133 OPS+

 

Offense was down last year.

[Mizzou]

2004 was a career year for Tejada. OPS+ is good for comparing different eras, but I don't think it's useful in comparing a player's consecutive seasons.

[Sheets4theHOF]

Giles>Tejada

 

Seriously?

[Warpticon]

Speaking of defensive metrics, one thing that makes me skeptical of them in ways is that there's no real good way to account for the differences in first basemen where they do most of their works--receiving balls from infielders. In that way, I think the numbers undervalue Lee's defensive adeptitude.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

2004 was a career year for Tejada. OPS+ is good for comparing different eras, but I don't think it's useful in comparing a player's consecutive seasons.

 

Sure it is. To use an extreme example, if they raise the mound 5 inches next year, and only two players hit above .250, wouldn't it be a great year if you hit .255, even if you averaged .300 prior to that? Obviously there's no one thing to point to, nor is the change that drastic, but with steroid testing and other factors, offense was down this year. Comparatively speaking, Tejada was better in '05 than in '04.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

I really don't see how.

 

Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable.

 

You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third.

 

And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st.

 

Agreed. I love D-Lee, and his defense and speed are advantages over Miggy. But their overall production are very similar, and Tejada plays a much harder position to get production from.

 

As much as I love Lee, I'd take Pujols over him of course, and I'd regard any of Todd Helton, Adam Dunn, Mark Teixeira and perhaps a year or two ago, Carlos Delgado, as just as good.

 

At SS I'm a Jeter fan, and of course A-Rod if he played there. But then there's Miggy, and quite a drop-off after that.

 

I'd rate Miggy top 3 at SS, easily, but not overall. Pujols, ARod, Manny Ramirez, and Cabrera are all better players.

 

It's not Miggy's ability that concerns me. It's giving up a young arm, who is dominant unless he's getting run into by someone or taking a line drive off an elbow, for a 30 year old player. That's a huge no-no and I'd rather Hendry didn't screw us over for the next 5-10 years by trading Prior or Z. I'd rather not have that whiner on this team anyway. He had his pick of clubs when he was a FA and now he's complaining about where he ended up. Sweet.

 

Swapping Prior for Tejada just exchanges one piece for another. You have to look at the differences in production not just at SS, but also with Prior leaving the rotation. Does the swap leave us better off in the short term? I doubt it, since we'd probably be bringing in a minor leaguer into the rotation. It certainly wouldn't be the smart long term decision for this ballclub given the ages of the players in question.

 

Meat, I don't argue your position, I love Prior as much as the next guy. But what if Rich Hill or Angel Guzman are the real deal? Or Wade Miller is healthy? Do we have any shortstops that could similarly fill the bill (answer=no)?

 

We really, REALLY need that extra power bat in the lineup. I guess I'm wavering in my pessimism, given the experience of the last two years, in whether Prior's health will allow him to ever live up to his early promise.

 

I mean geez, compare October 2003 to February 2006. At a minimum, Dontrelle Willis, Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, Rich Harden and maybe even Felix Hernandez have passed him by. Is Mark Prior REALLY all that untouchable??

[RynoRules]

Fair points all, Don. I guess if Prior were Wood's age then I might agree. But as of now, I think Mark hasn't hit his peak, and thus his value remains very high.

 

BTW, Rogers is reporting that the Sox would have swooped in and made an offer for Prior had the Cubs dealt him to the O's.