What would it take Hendry/Baker long-term?

[UK1679666180]

On my way home, the radio hosts asked this question to the listeners: what would it take to merit bringing back Hendry and Baker beyond 2006?

 

Beyond discussing the probability of next year's win totals, which has already been discussed at length...

 

Is there a win total or a certain degree of success that would justify bringing both of them back?

 

Maybe for some, it's winning the World Series or bust. For some it might be a playoff berth, or winning a playoff series similar to '03. Others maybe it's 90-100 wins or some feel that Baker and Hendry have done a good job and deserve the extention now regardless of how the season maps out.

 

For me, it's 95 wins. They should likely win the division with that total and have the pitching to carry them in to the post-season. It's an extremely lofty goal, but with this payroll and pitching staff as well as the core position players such as Lee/Ramirez and the spending in the pen, it is a fair requirement to determine whether or not they should be brought back.

[stitchface]

there are some reasons I'm sure . . . I personally don't want either back regardless of performace on philosophical grounds.

[UK1679666180]

Or in the case of Poudre, regardless of results, not bringing them back. :)

[stitchface]

Or in the case of Poudre, regardless of results, not bringing them back. :)

 

sure 95 wins then back to mediocrity. I'd like to see a system in place that allows competitiveness year in and year out.

[UK1679666180]

They will have had to make fundamental changes for this current roster to get to 95 wins.

[stitchface]

They will have had to make fundamental changes for this current roster to get to 95 wins.

 

ok, I'll go with fundamental organizational philosophical changes and 90 plus wins three years in a row.

[Careless]

Well, I wouldn't be furious if they won 95 and got extensions. I'd understand. I still wouldn't give them the extensions if it was in my power, though

[UK1679666180]

For the Cubs to reach that 95 win total...

 

Murton will have to stay in the lineup, produce, and Baker has to keep him out there. Same w/Cedeno.

Perez would be a utility player.

Little to no regression from Lee/Barrett.

Jones would have to hit as he did about 3 years ago.

Ramirez healthy.

Pierre would have to set the table.

 

Baker would have to use the pen properly by not burning them out by June.

 

Most importantly, he'd have to treat the pitchers as if it was a marathon and not a sprint.

 

Those are the fundamental changes, something we'd have to see.

[Jon]

If the Cubs win 95 games, it's likely going to be because Zambrano, Prior, and probably Wood carry the team. We'll have to see about the bullpen, but if the offense produces at levels comparable to last year's, I'm not going to be giving any credit for failing to improve the team. With the state the farm system was in a year or two ago and the payroll, having a sub-par offense is not acceptable.

 

EDIT: I should add that I believe the offense was somewhat unlucky last year in terms of having better offensive statistics than the White Sox but failing to score as many runs. The offense may very well score more runs next year, but if they put up similar statistics, I don't think it qualifies as Hendry improving the team.

Edited January 13, 2006 by Jon

[stitchface]

If the Cubs win 95 games, it's likely going to be because Zambrano, Prior, and probably Wood carry the team. We'll have to see about the bullpen, but if the offense produces at levels comparable to last year's, I'm not going to be giving any credit for failing to improve the team. With the state the farm system was in a year or two ago and the payroll, having a sub-par offense is not acceptable.

 

 

They will need to hold opponents under 650 runs because they aren't going to score a ton.

[MPrior]

Under no circumstances should Baker EVER be allowed near this baseball team. If the Cubs win 119 games and sweep the Yankees in the World Series next year, that won't change the fact that he's a total incompetent. I especially get mad that he literally destroys careers. I hold him personally accountable - at least partially - for the downfall of LaTroy Hawkins, the non-career of Juan Cruz, the ineffectiveness of Mike Remlinger, the destruction of Chad Fox's elbow, injuries to Wood and Prior, and reduced effectiveness of Prior, Zambrano, Wuertz, and others. He may also be partially responsible for some poor play on the parts of a few positional prospects, and who knows what will happen to the careers of Wood, Prior, and Zambrano down the road? Not to mention his incompetency at filling out a lineup card and his preference for players like Neifi Perez and Jose Macias over promising young players. As has been said many times, if the Cubs win, it will be in spite of Baker, not because of him.

 

As for Hendry, I don't feel quite as strongly, so if the Cubs do win a lot, then maybe he deserves some credit. But it would take a pretty spectacular season with all of Hendry's gambles working out right. Otherwise, he should go too.

[ChiCubsFan]

Under no circumstances should Baker EVER be allowed near this baseball team. If the Cubs win 119 games and sweep the Yankees in the World Series next year, that won't change the fact that he's a total incompetent. I especially get mad that he literally destroys careers. I hold him personally accountable - at least partially - for the downfall of LaTroy Hawkins, the non-career of Juan Cruz, the ineffectiveness of Mike Remlinger, the destruction of Chad Fox's elbow, injuries to Wood and Prior, and reduced effectiveness of Prior, Zambrano, Wuertz, and others. He may also be partially responsible for some poor play on the parts of a few positional prospects, and who knows what will happen to the careers of Wood, Prior, and Zambrano down the road? Not to mention his incompetency at filling out a lineup card and his preference for players like Neifi Perez and Jose Macias over promising young players. As has been said many times, if the Cubs win, it will be in spite of Baker, not because of him.

 

As for Hendry, I don't feel quite as strongly, so if the Cubs do win a lot, then maybe he deserves some credit. But it would take a pretty spectacular season with all of Hendry's gambles working out right. Otherwise, he should go too.

 

ditto.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I was late to the anti-Hendry crowd, but he took a chance to vastly improve the team and made nightmarish decision after nightmarish decision. Barring an overhaul not yet seen in MLB history, there's not much to convince me that Hendry should remain GM IMO.

 

Baker is an abomination, he's terrible. Problem is, there are far fewer managerial options than GM options that we know will not fall into some of the same traps that Baker did. That shouldn't prevent them from firing him yesterday, today, tomorrow, and the day after that though.

[NorthsideAvenger]

World Series title:

I would bring back both Hendry and Baker on 2 yr deals, each. That's it.

 

World Series appearance with a WS loss:

Baker and Hendry back for 1 yr, with options.

 

No playoffs:

Baker is gone, and Hendry is back for 1 yr in a FULL HOT SEAT.

 

Under .500

Baker should be fired......from a cannon back to California, and Hendry should be loaded up next.

 

Cubs finish behind the Brewers AND Pirates, and maybe the Reds:

Hendry should be forced to run the Devil Rays organization.

[USSoccer]

The only thing that would warrant Baker's return is if he immediatly became the opposite of everything he is. Sane lineups, fewer useless double switches, correctly handling pitchers, and playing young players. I don't care if we win the World Series-unless he does some or all of the above, it will be in spite of him.

 

Hendry coming back should be tied to progress of the farm system in 2006 and the overall success of his FA and trade targets relative to our team's success. For example, if Jones sucks and Pierre is average, but our pitching stays healthy and Lee and Ramirez do their Ortiz/Manny impression, and we win 95 games and go deep into the playoffs, I don't see how that warrants an extension, but if Pierre and Jones both have good seasons, and Eyre and Howry both prove their worth, you can extend him, provided the team wins, and the top prospects he drafted mature.

 

If we underachieve again, Hendry should be fired.

[WrigleyinEngland]

If Hendry is to return then he will need to show an improvement on the prospects either being used in quality trades or developing in to everyday players. Baker must not return in order for Hendry to keep his JOb. All MLB coaching staff fired and Hendry must hire coaches who understand how to manage at the major league level. I would fire Dusty etc if we won 110 games because would still win in spite of him not because of him.

[Balsa]

I say for Hendry to come back, his moves this offseason would have to look really good. IE, Jones raking, Bullpen unstoppable, Pierre with an amazing OBP, Rich Hill doing well...etc.

 

For Baker to get a new deal, he'd pretty much have to be the opposite of everything he's done so far. I would have to be really impressed with his coaching decisions to sign him back for more time, even if we won the World Series.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

there are some reasons I'm sure . . . I personally don't want either back regardless of performace on philosophical grounds.

 

Same with me.

 

If we went and won 95 games this year, there would be a TON of luck involved. Unfortunately, NEITHER of those two would see that, they'd think they were making the right moves all along.

[Roast]

I dont want Baker back no matter what he does.

 

If we win the world series I will allow hendry back. Anything less than that....well both of them are goners.

[Tim]

I wouldn't base my decision on win totals or playoff appearances. For each guy:

 

Baker:

 

- does he improve his handling of pitchers?

- Can he learn when is the right time to pull a starter and manage as if he's trying to keep them healthy and productive for the long haul?

- Can he learn to either manage with a six man pen or learn to effectively use all the assets he has there in a balance so that he doesn't have two guys rusty and two guys shot from overuse?

- Can he learn to develop young players while still trying to win?

- Will he finally learn how to construct a lineup for the best chances to win?

- Does Neifi or Walker start?

 

Hendry:

 

- Who was right about Jones, the stats or the scouts?

- Can he improve the team significantly during the season?

- Has he invested in international recruiting this offseason since we'll be short 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks?

- Does the farm look like it will start to turn the corner in producing position players and keeping pitchers healthy on their way up?

- Does he trade Walker or keep him? If a trade, does he significantly improve the talent level of the team in so doing?

- Can he complete any other moves to improve the team before ST?

[mhuber92211]

I think we will see what many of the Cubs fans think about this topic after the convention and I think management does as well.

 

For me I think that I want a complete coaching overhaul next offseason. Not that I am hugely against the current team's management but I think that it is a good time for a fresh face and new eyes seeing as how next offseason we will have many new faces.

 

I will still stand behind Hendry with any outcome this summer. Hendry is the kind of GM that doesn't stop trying and doesn't let fan pressure effect him. If there is one thing that a GM must do its to make a firm decision and not waffle. Hendry has his faults but he is also the best GM we have had since Green (and in some ways better). Seeing what else would be out there and available inhouse I still think Hendry is the right man for the job.

[Fro]

Give me a break, if Dusty and Hendry make it to the World Series, they're going to get 5 year contract extensions at least, if they win it, they have a job until retirement.

[UK1679666180]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/01/14/SPGOUGNGEP1.DTL

 

Raging issue in Chicago: Whether the Cubs will offer manager Dusty Baker a contract extension, and whether he'll accept. Don't do it, Dusty. That whole town is waiting -- no, hoping -- to watch you fail. Go someplace where your talents are respected ...

 

Agreed, don't except it Dusty. O:)

[Mark Priors Calves]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/01/14/SPGOUGNGEP1.DTL

 

Raging issue in Chicago: Whether the Cubs will offer manager Dusty Baker a contract extension, and whether he'll accept. Don't do it, Dusty. That whole town is waiting -- no, hoping -- to watch you fail. Go someplace where your talents are respected ...

 

Agreed, don't except it Dusty. O:)

 

Bruce Jenkins with another piece of garbage.

[Jon]

It is. We've already seen him fail.