2006 Batting Order with Current players

[jmajew]

I was sitting around today thinking of what the order would be for the Cubs this upcoming season with who we got and I was kind of curious what others would say about what I came up with.

 

Pierre

Walker/Hairston if Walker is traded

Lee

Jones

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

I know most of this is pretty obvious. Howver, there was one spot in the order I struggled greatly with. My natural instinct was to at first put Jones 5th. However, as I thought about it more I began to believe that in order to get the best production out of Jones he would be best suited to bat 4th. Teams would be scared of Ramirez and would thus throw a lot more fastballs to Jones. The only problem with Jones batting 4th is that it would limit the amount of baserunners that will be on base when Aramis comes to bat. Jones will probably only have an OBP of optimistically 330, whereas Lee would probably be around 380-400.

 

I think part of Jones problem the past three years was that he and Torri Hunter were the only threats that the Twins had in their lineup. You would have to think that with more protection Jones would have to up his BA by atleast 15-20 pts. I think by putting Jones at 5th he would be the same player he was in Minnesota but 4th I could see him being a better player.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

My natural instinct was to at first put Jones 5th. However, as I thought about it more I began to believe that in order to get the best production out of Jones he would be best suited to bat 4th. Teams would be scared of Ramirez and would thus throw a lot more fastballs to Jones.

 

The ideal spot in our order for Jones is 0th, but the worst spots possible would be 2nd or 4th. Nobody is going to pitch to him any differently, regardless of who is around him. He has done absolutely nothing in his recent career to suggest to opposing pitchers that he has the patience necessary for pitchers to throw BP fastballs down the middle of the plate in fear of Aramis. He should bat 6th at the highest.

 

Furthermore, until Lee proves last year was no fluke, Aramis should be batting 3rd. He is our best overall hitter.

[SouthSideRyan]

I disagree on the Lee/Ramirez point. Lee even if he doesn't come close to last year's numbers is going to have the better OBP so he should go in the 3 spot. Beyond that, I don't see Lee dropping off that much to make Ramirez the better hitter.

[EricG]

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Walker

Cedeno

 

something like that. Ramirez' leg problems were probably the reason he batted 5th last year.

[CubinNY]

I disagree on the Lee/Ramirez point. Lee even if he doesn't come close to last year's numbers is going to have the better OBP so he should go in the 3 spot. Beyond that, I don't see Lee dropping off that much to make Ramirez the better hitter.

 

My only hope is Dusty does not try and sandwich Jones between them whatever order they bat. That would be bad.

[SouthSideRyan]

I disagree on the Lee/Ramirez point. Lee even if he doesn't come close to last year's numbers is going to have the better OBP so he should go in the 3 spot. Beyond that, I don't see Lee dropping off that much to make Ramirez the better hitter.

 

My only hope is Dusty does not try and sandwich Jones between them whatever order they bat. That would be bad.

 

It was painful to watch him do it with Burnitz for 1/2 the year last year, but I'm strangely optimistic that he learned his lesson.

[Derwood]

You want how I would bat them or how Dusty will bat them?

[AR-Baseball-Fan]

I disagree on the Lee/Ramirez point. Lee even if he doesn't come close to last year's numbers is going to have the better OBP so he should go in the 3 spot. Beyond that, I don't see Lee dropping off that much to make Ramirez the better hitter.

 

My only hope is Dusty does not try and sandwich Jones between them whatever order they bat. That would be bad.

 

It was painful to watch him do it with Burnitz for 1/2 the year last year, but I'm strangely optimistic that he learned his lesson.

 

"Dusty... learned" I have yet to see any evidence of this.

[jmajew]

I was also tossing around the idea of a lineup that had Barrett batting 5th and Jones batting 6th.

 

Pierre

Walker/Hairston

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Jones

Murton

Cedeno

 

To say Jones will not see better pitches batting infront of Aramis to me makes no sense at all. I have to believe that Jones was pressing alot in Minnesota because he needed to be a huge offensive force. I believe in Chicago knowing that he is just meant to be a complimentary piece will help him to relax and perform much better. You cannot tell me if you are on the mound and there are runners on seond and third with two outs with Jones up and Ramirez on deck you would not throw more fastballs to Jones? Of course you would. Jones's success rate will be better because of that, however, it still will not be as good as Aramis but it will be better. If you bat Jones 5th and have Barrett behind him you don't have that same fear factor for the pitchers.

[jmajew]

You want how I would bat them or how Dusty will bat them?

 

You would

[Derwood]

You want how I would bat them or how Dusty will bat them?

 

You would

 

1. Pierre CF

2. Walker 2B

3. Lee 1B

4. Ramirez 3B

5. Barrett C

6. Murton LF

7. Jones RF

8. Cedeno SS

[Abe Frohman]

Despite the fact that I don't think the Cubs really have a true #5 hitter to protect Aramis Ramirez in the order, I think it is essential to have Todd Walker hitting in the 2 spot. He is tough to strike out, and hopefully can do what it takes to get Pierre into scoring position for Lee & Ramirez.

 

I think Matt Murton has shown that he is a guy who will draw walks (hard to tell, but I'll bet somewhere in the 50 BB range for the Cubs is what we can expect), which would make him a pretty good fit in the 2 hole. Additionally, I hear that Murton has some pretty good pop and may develope into a 20-30 HR hitter, which would be nice if he could go ahead knock that many in 2005 behind ARam. We need more pop.

 

I like the lineup pretty much the same as everyone else:

 

CF Pierre

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Murton

RF Jones

CA Barrett

SS Cedeno

[A New Era]

I was sitting around today thinking of what the order would be for the Cubs this upcoming season with who we got and I was kind of curious what others would say about what I came up with.

 

Pierre

Walker/Hairston if Walker is traded

Lee

Jones

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

 

That's the way DUSTY would do it. But the way it SHOULD be done is. . .

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Murton

Jones

Barret

Cedeno

[Transmogrified Tiger]

v. RHP

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

v. LHP

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Jones/Restovich/Grissom

Walker

Cedeno

[Mizzou]

I'd probably do:

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Walker

Jones

Cedeno

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Murton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Pierre

Cedeno

 

edit - fliped Jones and Barrett because Pierre is a lefty

Edited January 11, 2006 by CardsFanInChiTown

[soapy]

As of right now (I'm going to assume Walker is gone):

 

Pierre

Hairston

Lee

Ramirez

Jones (ugh)

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

I hope that either Murton or Barrett can step up and maybe move into the 5th spot. That, or Jones has a bounce back year (which I think is less likely then the former). Also, Murton could find himself in the 2-spot if he continues to show that he can get on base at a high percentage (with Hairston moving down to 7th or 8th). If Neifi is starting, he hits 8th and Murton or Cedeno hit 2nd.

 

Overall, a pretty unimpressive lineup. It could possibly be productive, but it could also be pretty terrible. There are several question marks (Hairston, Jones, Murton, Cedeno, maybe even Pierre).

[TheDude]

The ideal spot in our order for Jones is 0th, but the worst spots possible would be 2nd or 4th. Nobody is going to pitch to him any differently, regardless of who is around him. He has done absolutely nothing in his recent career to suggest to opposing pitchers that he has the patience necessary for pitchers to throw BP fastballs down the middle of the plate in fear of Aramis. He should bat 6th at the highest.

 

While I am not advocating Jones for 2nd or 4th, part of your statement is incorrect. Jones has displayed increased patience at the plate the couple of years, despite declining BA and OBP. He sees more pitches per plate appearance and swings and misses fewer pitches.

 

On topic, my preferred lineup would be:

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barret

Murton

Cedeno

 

The subs lineups change a lot when I look at it. If Walker isn't playing, then Murton climbs to the 2 hole and some other shifting occurs. Perez and Blanco slot to 8 when they get a start.

[sonofsamiam]

Furthermore, until Lee proves last year was no fluke, Aramis should be batting 3rd. He is our best overall hitter.

 

I don't agree with this at all.

 

OPS+ Lee:

 

2001: 113

2002: 131

2003: 135

2004: 114

2005: 177

 

OPS+ Aramis:

 

2001: 125

2002: 069

2003: 104

2004: 136

2005: 137

 

Lee's career peak, consistency, and overall OPS+ are better than Aramis's. I love Aramis, but I find it baffling that so many still seem to refuse to believe that Lee is the real deal.

[goonys evil twin]

Lee's career peak, consistency, and overall OPS+ are better than Aramis's. I love Aramis, but I find it baffling that so many still seem to refuse to believe that Lee is the real deal.

 

Do they refuse to believe Lee is the real or that Lee is going to repeat his 2005 numbers? I think he's the real deal, whatever that means, but I don't think he's going to repeat 2005. And I believe he and Aramis will be neck and neck for best production in 2006.

[sonofsamiam]

Lee's career peak, consistency, and overall OPS+ are better than Aramis's. I love Aramis, but I find it baffling that so many still seem to refuse to believe that Lee is the real deal.

 

Do they refuse to believe Lee is the real or that Lee is going to repeat his 2005 numbers? I think he's the real deal, whatever that means, but I don't think he's going to repeat 2005. And I believe he and Aramis will be neck and neck for best production in 2006.

 

I doubt he'll improve on or match '05, but I'd be really surprised if he reverts to '04.

 

Aramis will probably have similar isolated power, maybe even slightly better. But Lee will almost certainly be better at being patient and getting on base.

 

Then factor in Lee's durability, speed, and fielding, and it's a no-brainer.

[Bergy92]

I know that some of you have acknowledged this, but why is it that some people would not consider Murton in the 2nd spot? He has some speed, hustles, good plate discipline, and shown some signs of some pop. Plus, he seems to be able to put the ball in play - great for a little hit and run. The only thing I can think of is that there is hope that the signs of pop will grow and he might be more valuable down in the order. I know we only have a small sample to take from, but it seems he would be a great table setter with Pierre for Lee & Ramiriz.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Ramiriz

Walker

Barrett

Jones

Cedano

[marc_foust]

I seem to remember that last year Barrett was batting up in the lineup around 4-5th and really went on a tear until being dropped back down. So I would like to see him protecting ARam more than Jones or Murton until Murton can prove sustained success.

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

ARam

Barrett

Jones

Murton

Cedeno

[Balsa]

I actually like Cedeno in the second spot. In my mind, he would be the ideal #2 hitter, assuming that Walker has left. To me, Cedeno is much more of an established player than Murton is.

 

Pierre (obvious)

Cedeno (I think he could really groove here, plus he's got good speed)

Lee (no surprise)

Ramirez (no surprise)

Jones (I have a feeling he'll do much better in Wrigley)

Barrett (Good bat, especially in clutch and rallys)

Murton (Good bat so far, still seems rather unproven to me [see DuBois])

Hairston/Neifi! (Low OBP, low AVG, low SLG)

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I actually like Cedeno in the second spot. In my mind, he would be the ideal #2 hitter, assuming that Walker has left. To me, Cedeno is much more of an established player than Murton is.

 

Pierre (obvious)

Cedeno (I think he could really groove here, plus he's got good speed)

Lee (no surprise)

Ramirez (no surprise)

Jones (I have a feeling he'll do much better in Wrigley)

Barrett (Good bat, especially in clutch and rallys)

Murton (Good bat so far, still seems rather unproven to me [see DuBois])

Hairston/Neifi! (Low OBP, low AVG, low SLG)

 

Why is it obvious Pierre should bat leadoff? If I were a Cub fan I would want him to get as few as AB's as possible. As I stated before, I'd bat Walker and Murton in the top 2 spots because of increased OBP and extra base hits.