Big Ten Basketball

[fiver]

lol...now Davis is given the T. Certainly, Knight had his share, but Davis at times looks just as foolish as Knight did as he was heaving that chair across the court...and in a totally different way.

 

edit - Knight's loss of self control seemed somewhat calculated. Davis? ...heh I can still see him frantically running out on the court BEFORE the end of that Kentucky game a few years back...when IU still had an opportunity to win the game.

[soapy]

I actually thought that benching Killingsworth, et al. was a pretty good move. They clearly weren't going to win that game the way they were playing. Killingsworth wasn't just off, he was playing poorly defensively, and was getting out hustled/out worked all night. I felt like Davis was sending a message to everyone on the team. I don't care who you are, if you don't bring your best effort every night, you won't play.

 

He was basically pulling a Bob Knight.

[fiver]

I actually thought that benching Killingsworth, et al. was a pretty good move. They clearly weren't going to win that game the way they were playing. Killingsworth wasn't just off, he was playing poorly defensively, and was getting out hustled/out worked all night. I felt like Davis was sending a message to everyone on the team. I don't care who you are, if you don't bring your best effort every night, you won't play.

 

He was basically pulling a Bob Knight.

 

Marco was getting double-teamed, Cacique. That should leave a player in good shape for an open shot. With Kline as your 5 for most of the second half and Suhr playing over 20 minutes, Iowa was able to take advantage of multiple mismatches. Kline may be 6-8, but he plays like he is 6-4. That said, Indiana had NO ONE on the floor that could matchup with Brunner OR Hansen OR Haluska. Indiana was only down 3 points at the half, and Killingsworth was taken out of the game soon after the beginning of the second half. You can cuss Killingsworth for not finding the open man, but you will NOT win with on the bench. The game was not over when Davis benched Killer, IMO...

 

I'm all for benching him for a couple of minutes when he isn't in foul trouble (or tired) to prove a point. Benching him for ten minutes in that scenario is a death sentence for you team when there is no legitimate 4 or 5 on the court.

[cjbucks]

I actually thought that benching Killingsworth, et al. was a pretty good move. They clearly weren't going to win that game the way they were playing. Killingsworth wasn't just off, he was playing poorly defensively, and was getting out hustled/out worked all night. I felt like Davis was sending a message to everyone on the team. I don't care who you are, if you don't bring your best effort every night, you won't play.

 

He was basically pulling a Bob Knight.

 

Marco was getting double-teamed, Cacique. That should leave a player in good shape for an open shot. With Kline as your 5 for most of the second half and Suhr playing over 20 minutes, Iowa was able to take advantage of multiple mismatches. Kline may be 6-8, but he plays like he is 6-4. That said, Indiana had NO ONE on the floor that could matchup with Brunner OR Hansen OR Haluska. Indiana was only down 3 points at the half, and Killingsworth was taken out of the game soon after the beginning of the second half. You can cuss Killingsworth for not finding the open man, but you will NOT win with on the bench. The game was not over when Davis benched Killer, IMO...

 

I'm all for benching him for a couple of minutes when he isn't in foul trouble (or tired) to prove a point. Benching him for ten minutes in that scenario is a death sentence for you team when there is no legitimate 4 or 5 on the court.

 

I was at the game and couldn't believe they were keeping him on the bench. Hansen and Thomas played him pretty good at the start but if IU had continued to pound it in there I'm not sure they could have kept it up for the whole game. At the same time Marco was finding some open guys early but they just weren't hitting their shots. Seemed to me that Davis panicked and went away from his game plan at the first sign it wasn't working.

[rawaction]

He was crap on defense. He deserved to be sitting down. I agree that he probably shouldn't have been out that long, though. Still, it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome, IMO. Nobody was knocking down open shots. And Monroe and Calloway were taking too many of them. I thought Kline played well, though. At least well for Sean Kline.

[soapy]

I actually thought that benching Killingsworth, et al. was a pretty good move. They clearly weren't going to win that game the way they were playing. Killingsworth wasn't just off, he was playing poorly defensively, and was getting out hustled/out worked all night. I felt like Davis was sending a message to everyone on the team. I don't care who you are, if you don't bring your best effort every night, you won't play.

 

He was basically pulling a Bob Knight.

 

Marco was getting double-teamed, Cacique. That should leave a player in good shape for an open shot. With Kline as your 5 for most of the second half and Suhr playing over 20 minutes, Iowa was able to take advantage of multiple mismatches. Kline may be 6-8, but he plays like he is 6-4. That said, Indiana had NO ONE on the floor that could matchup with Brunner OR Hansen OR Haluska. Indiana was only down 3 points at the half, and Killingsworth was taken out of the game soon after the beginning of the second half. You can cuss Killingsworth for not finding the open man, but you will NOT win with on the bench. The game was not over when Davis benched Killer, IMO...

 

I'm all for benching him for a couple of minutes when he isn't in foul trouble (or tired) to prove a point. Benching him for ten minutes in that scenario is a death sentence for you team when there is no legitimate 4 or 5 on the court.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you on any of this. Erik Suhr is terrible. All this pepper-pop crap makes me want to puke. He stinks. I don't care how "smart" he is or how much he "hustles". He's still bad. Problem is, they didn't really have much choice with Strickland injured and Ratliff playing only nine minutes because of foul trouble. Kline can be thrown into that same catagory (though he played respectable last night).

 

They were only down three at half, but Iowa opened up with what, an 11-0 run to start the 2nd half? That's when Killer got benched. He obviously wasn't getting much help from the outside, but he was being out worked the entire game. His defense was terrible, at best. As far as being double teamed, he better get used to it. He needs to be able to pass out of that double team. Right now, that part of his game seems kind of hit-and-miss.

 

Davis is not without blame either. The coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the floor. If his players aren't motivated, he needs to either find a way to motivate them, or figure out a different rotation to put on the floor. I absolutely agree that having Kline as your only "big man" on the floor is a terrible idea. There were a few times last night where Vaden was basically the only legitimate scoring threat on the court.

 

I thought Allen was okay last night too. I hope he'll get some more minutes as a result.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

All this pepper-pop crap makes me want to puke.

 

Where did that Lavin pepper-pop rant come from? I live within 5 minutes of Carver, and the only thing stopping me from heading over there and kicking the snot out of him was sheer laziness.

[fiver]

I actually thought that benching Killingsworth, et al. was a pretty good move. They clearly weren't going to win that game the way they were playing. Killingsworth wasn't just off, he was playing poorly defensively, and was getting out hustled/out worked all night. I felt like Davis was sending a message to everyone on the team. I don't care who you are, if you don't bring your best effort every night, you won't play.

 

He was basically pulling a Bob Knight.

 

Marco was getting double-teamed, Cacique. That should leave a player in good shape for an open shot. With Kline as your 5 for most of the second half and Suhr playing over 20 minutes, Iowa was able to take advantage of multiple mismatches. Kline may be 6-8, but he plays like he is 6-4. That said, Indiana had NO ONE on the floor that could matchup with Brunner OR Hansen OR Haluska. Indiana was only down 3 points at the half, and Killingsworth was taken out of the game soon after the beginning of the second half. You can cuss Killingsworth for not finding the open man, but you will NOT win with on the bench. The game was not over when Davis benched Killer, IMO...

 

I'm all for benching him for a couple of minutes when he isn't in foul trouble (or tired) to prove a point. Benching him for ten minutes in that scenario is a death sentence for you team when there is no legitimate 4 or 5 on the court.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you on any of this. Erik Suhr is terrible. All this pepper-pop crap makes me want to puke. He stinks. I don't care how "smart" he is or how much he "hustles". He's still bad. Problem is, they didn't really have much choice with Strickland injured and Ratliff playing only nine minutes because of foul trouble. Kline can be thrown into that same catagory (though he played respectable last night).

 

They were only down three at half, but Iowa opened up with what, an 11-0 run to start the 2nd half? That's when Killer got benched. He obviously wasn't getting much help from the outside, but he was being out worked the entire game. His defense was terrible, at best. As far as being double teamed, he better get used to it. He needs to be able to pass out of that double team. Right now, that part of his game seems kind of hit-and-miss.

 

Davis is not without blame either. The coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the floor. If his players aren't motivated, he needs to either find a way to motivate them, or figure out a different rotation to put on the floor. I absolutely agree that having Kline as your only "big man" on the floor is a terrible idea. There were a few times last night where Vaden was basically the only legitimate scoring threat on the court.

I thought Allen was okay last night too. I hope he'll get some more minutes as a result.

 

I'll comment on the emboldened parts :

 

Agreed, Suhr plays full speed and I will give him that, but not many 5-6 or 5-8 players for that matter are going to be able to stay above water in any major conference. I love his hustle, but that only goes so far.

 

Agreed, Kline played well for Kline. No need for me to comment further

 

Agreed, Marco has to get better at passing out of the double team although he indeed did this quite a bit last night. IU wasn't taking advantage of these open shots.

 

Agreed, I've stated that Davis took the Killingsworth benching a bit too far...and I probably took my criticism of Davis a bit far as well (based soley upon last night's performance). My frustration with Davis is deeply rooted, and I don't deem him to be a coach that gets the most out of his teams.

 

Yep, Kline is not a 5.

 

Indeed. Vaden was the only player there for a while in the second half that could take a shot and not have it blocked.

 

edit - Allen will only get better.

 

Double edit - IU's only chance of going anywhere in the dance this year is to get White back in time for him to get some conditioning under his belt...I think that last injury probably sealed this season's fate as being promising yet unfulfilling.

[soapy]

I'll comment on the emboldened parts :

 

Agreed, Suhr plays full speed and I will give him that, but not many 5-6 or 5-8 players for that matter are going to be able to stay above water in any major conference. I love his hustle, but that only goes so far.

 

Agreed, Kline played well for Kline. No need for me to comment further

 

Agreed, Marco has to get better at passing out of the double team although he indeed did this quite a bit last night. IU wasn't taking advantage of these open shots.

 

Agreed, I've stated that Davis took the Killingsworth benching a bit too far...and I probably took my criticism of Davis a bit far as well (based soley upon last night's performance). My frustration with Davis is deeply rooted, and I don't deem him to be a coach that gets the most out of his teams.

 

Yep, Kline is not a 5.

 

Indeed. Vaden was the only player there for a while in the second half that could take a shot and not have it blocked.

 

edit - Allen will only get better.

 

Double edit - IU's only chance of going anywhere in the dance this year is to get White back in time for him to get some cinditioning under his belt...I think that last injury probably sealed this season's fate as being promising yet unfulfilling.

 

Agreed on everything. They don't have enough with out White at least getting a little time off of the bench (like maybe 10 or 15 minutes). I'm sure Allen will improve, but it likely won't be enough.

 

I'd also like to hear more about Strickland's injury. Though I get on his case a lot, they do need him to stay competitive in the conference.

[Derwood]

Penn State is scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin this evening

[hawkeyecub]

Mike Davis makes me giggle. I hate Brunner. Yes, I'm a Hawkeye fan.

 

What?

[hawkeyecub]

He was crap on defense. He deserved to be sitting down. I agree that he probably shouldn't have been out that long, though. Still, it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome, IMO. Nobody was knocking down open shots. And Monroe and Calloway were taking too many of them. I thought Kline played well, though. At least well for Sean Kline.

 

How about Vaden? He was 8-12 from 3! A lot of those came with a hand in his face or were shots he had to hurry. He was impressive last night.

You guys did shoot 42% from 3 you know.

The Hoosiers were hitting some tough three's all night long, you just couldn't get any other looks inside and there was no penetration.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Penn State is scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin this evening

 

North Dakota St. was scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin on Saturday. They're without Landry for the rest of the year, and Stiesma will be in his first game back. If they can do what ND St. did, pack the lane and force them to beat you from further away, they may have a chance.

[fiver]

He was crap on defense. He deserved to be sitting down. I agree that he probably shouldn't have been out that long, though. Still, it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome, IMO. Nobody was knocking down open shots. And Monroe and Calloway were taking too many of them. I thought Kline played well, though. At least well for Sean Kline.

 

How about Vaden? He was 8-12 from 3! A lot of those came with a hand in his face or were shots he had to hurry. He was impressive last night.

You guys did shoot 42% from 3 you know.

The Hoosiers were hitting some tough three's all night long, you just couldn't get any other looks inside and there was no penetration.

 

 

I wish more and more that Killingsworth would have left Monroe in Auburn.

[Chocolate Milk]

Penn State is scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin this evening

 

North Dakota St. was scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin on Saturday. They're without Landry for the rest of the year, and Stiesma will be in his first game back. If they can do what ND St. did, pack the lane and force them to beat you from further away, they may have a chance.

 

I agree. If Penn State can hold the Badgers to 22% from the floor they should be in good shape.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Penn State is scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin this evening

 

North Dakota St. was scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin on Saturday. They're without Landry for the rest of the year, and Stiesma will be in his first game back. If they can do what ND St. did, pack the lane and force them to beat you from further away, they may have a chance.

 

I agree. If Penn State can hold the Badgers to 22% from the floor they should be in good shape.

 

Haha, well obviously a huge factor was that UW was awful from the field, and Penn State is a better team than ND State. Big Ten Wonk is more articulate than I:

 

"Here it was: Wisconsin's reductio ad absurdum. Alando Tucker takes more shots than any other Badger and Tucker misses a ton of shots: QED, Wisconsin misses a ton of shots, right? Well, no, not really. At least not until Saturday. UW had managed to transcend Tucker's prolific rim-denting and put points on the board because, like industrious subordinates covering for an incompetent boss, the non-Tucker Badgers had proven to be notably efficient in translating shots into points."

 

The point is that this is the extreme of one end of the spectrum, but considering that there was a bit of a gameplan(the aforementioned packing of the lane) that led to this type of shooting, and the fact that the team was/is relying on good/great shooting to cover Tucker's inefficiencies, it's not that far out of the question for Wisconsin to have another poor shooting night if a similar strategy is employed. Not 22% bad, but enough that a team like PSU(who again is better than ND St.) could hang with and possibly upset UW.

[Chocolate Milk]

Penn State is scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin this evening

 

North Dakota St. was scheduled to be humiliated by Wisconsin on Saturday. They're without Landry for the rest of the year, and Stiesma will be in his first game back. If they can do what ND St. did, pack the lane and force them to beat you from further away, they may have a chance.

 

I agree. If Penn State can hold the Badgers to 22% from the floor they should be in good shape.

 

Haha, well obviously a huge factor was that UW was awful from the field, and Penn State is a better team than ND State. Big Ten Wonk is more articulate than I:

 

"Here it was: Wisconsin's reductio ad absurdum. Alando Tucker takes more shots than any other Badger and Tucker misses a ton of shots: QED, Wisconsin misses a ton of shots, right? Well, no, not really. At least not until Saturday. UW had managed to transcend Tucker's prolific rim-denting and put points on the board because, like industrious subordinates covering for an incompetent boss, the non-Tucker Badgers had proven to be notably efficient in translating shots into points."

 

The point is that this is the extreme of one end of the spectrum, but considering that there was a bit of a gameplan(the aforementioned packing of the lane) that led to this type of shooting, and the fact that the team was/is relying on good/great shooting to cover Tucker's inefficiencies, it's not that far out of the question for Wisconsin to have another poor shooting night if a similar strategy is employed. Not 22% bad, but enough that a team like PSU(who again is better than ND St.) could hang with and possibly upset UW.

 

All of that analysis sounds great. The fact is Wiconsin has lost 1 Big Ten home game since Bo has been there and it was to an undefeated Illini team. The chances of them losing back to back home games to Penn State and North Dakota State are about the same as the Cubs outfield collectively hitting 120 homeruns.

[Chocolate Milk]

I'm not really sure what that guy is talking about regarding "prolific rim denting" by Tucker. Before going 2-18 last game he was shooting 46% which is pretty respectible and in line with the Agers and Shannon Browns of the world. By no means is he a great shooter, but to call him a prolific rim denter that the rest of the team must make up for is a pretty absurd statement.

 

Edit: In fact, Tucker shoots right around the team average.

[UMFan83]

Michigan State @ Michigan tonight...should be a good matchup hopefully. Chrysler Arena doesn't really have a strong home court advantage however, and I bet 25% of the seats will goto MSU students. Michigan really needs this win to get into the rankings and shut up those damn MSU fans.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not really sure what that guy is talking about regarding "prolific rim denting" by Tucker. Before going 2-18 last game he was shooting 46% which is pretty respectible and in line with the Agers and Shannon Browns of the world. By no means is he a great shooter, but to call him a prolific rim denter that the rest of the team must make up for is a pretty absurd statement.

 

Edit: In fact, Tucker shoots right around the team average.

 

Tucker's effectiveFG% is 45%, 51st of 60 qualified Big 10 players. Only Krabbenhoft is worse on UW. He's 57th of 60 in PPWS, worst on his team.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Michigan State @ Michigan tonight...should be a good matchup hopefully. Chrysler Arena doesn't really have a strong home court advantage however, and I bet 25% of the seats will goto MSU students. Michigan really needs this win to get into the rankings and shut up those damn MSU fans.

 

There's supposedly a strong MSU contingent packing Crisler tonight. Too bad I'll be at the Mizzou/ISU game and won't be able to see any of it. Maybe they'll rerun it on ESPNU.

[Chocolate Milk]

I'm not really sure what that guy is talking about regarding "prolific rim denting" by Tucker. Before going 2-18 last game he was shooting 46% which is pretty respectible and in line with the Agers and Shannon Browns of the world. By no means is he a great shooter, but to call him a prolific rim denter that the rest of the team must make up for is a pretty absurd statement.

 

Edit: In fact, Tucker shoots right around the team average.

 

Tucker's effectiveFG% is 45%, 51st of 60 qualified Big 10 players. Only Krabbenhoft is worse on UW. He's 57th of 60 in PPWS, worst on his team.

 

Tucker's Free Throw shooting has been horrendous of late. I agree. I wasn't aware that was being taken into consideration when discussing "rim denting." He says that the plasty face thing he is wearing throws him off at the line. Whether or not that's true or not I'm not sure. I'd venture to guess it has more to do with his completely touchless and arcless shot.

[Derwood]

The Centre Daily Times today made a big deal about how much bigger Wisconsin is than Penn State. Are these big guys the backups? (assuming the two guys who are out for the Badgers are starters?)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Centre Daily Times today made a big deal about how much bigger Wisconsin is than Penn State. Are these big guys the backups? (assuming the two guys who are out for the Badgers are starters?)

 

I read today that if Wisconsin's starting 2 guard played for PSU, he'd be the tallest starter by 2 inches.

[Flames24Rulz]

I'd prefer Michigan to win tonight...

 

Illini plays Minnesota at 8. Illinois should win that game by at least 20.