[Ding Dong Johnson]

He's had a run of bad luck here in Chicago, so he might want a fresh start. If he does want to return to SoCal long-term, nothing wrong with Hendry getting value for him now. He may spend a year in the purgatory that is Baltimore, but I bet Stockstill is checking out the farm systems of the Angels and Dodgers.

 

There's something very wrong with trying to get value for him now. He's under our control until 2008, why not keep him around until we absolutely have to get rid of him (assuming he has intentions of leaving)? That's a helluva lot of production from a dominating pitcher that we can be getting, plus his trade value is sure to increase over the next couple of years if he can prove he can stay healthy. It's simply idiotic to trade him now.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

While I like Prior as much as anyone on this board, I wonder if we as Cub Fans overhype him? He has had a nice young career and appears to be on his way to a great career.

 

However, we have never recieved a full year from him, at times last year he looked average. And to be honest I have yet to have the same feeling I did when he took the mound in 03. He was lights out. Racking up several consecutive wins and flat out dominate throughout the playoffs (notwithstanding game 6).

 

In 2004, he never really got it going, struggling through most of his post injury starts and at times looked very hitable. In 05, he continually would pitch behind from behind and most of the time had a high pitch count early in the game.

 

While I look forward to his 2006 season, it is with much apprehinsion. Are we going to hear the same arm issues throughout early ST. Limiting his starts due to swelling? Is he on his way to TJ surgery? While he is a strike out pitcher, we need him to last more than 6 innings.

 

All that being said, I am potentiall excited to see Tejada in the lineup every day. He has spent exactly 0 days on the DL the past 5 seasons. Swings a respected bat and gives solid defense up the middle. A potent 3-4-5 of Lee, Tejada, ARam rivals anyone in baseball.

 

To see Tejada 150+ games a year or hope Prior stays healthy enough to pitch 25 games is certainly something to think about.

[RockTheIvy]

While I like Prior as much as anyone on this board, I wonder if we as Cub Fans overhype him? He has had a nice young career and appears to be on his way to a great career.

 

However, we have never recieved a full year from him, at times last year he looked average. And to be honest I have yet to have the same feeling I did when he took the mound in 03. He was lights out. Racking up several consecutive wins and flat out dominate throughout the playoffs (notwithstanding game 6).

 

In 2004, he never really got it going, struggling through most of his post injury starts and at times looked very hitable. In 05, he continually would pitch behind from behind and most of the time had a high pitch count early in the game.

 

While I look forward to his 2006 season, it is with much apprehinsion. Are we going to hear the same arm issues throughout early ST. Limiting his starts due to swelling? Is he on his way to TJ surgery? While he is a strike out pitcher, we need him to last more than 6 innings.

 

All that being said, I am potentiall excited to see Tejada in the lineup every day. He has spent exactly 0 days on the DL the past 5 seasons. Swings a respected bat and gives solid defense up the middle. A potent 3-4-5 of Lee, Tejada, ARam rivals anyone in baseball.

 

To see Tejada 150+ games a year or hope Prior stays healthy enough to pitch 25 games is certainly something to think about.

 

I will only be happy with this trade if a) Prior asked for it, b) something is wrong with Prior. Other than those two things, I think we should keep him and try our luck with Cedeno.

[TXCubsFan]

He's had a run of bad luck here in Chicago, so he might want a fresh start. If he does want to return to SoCal long-term, nothing wrong with Hendry getting value for him now. He may spend a year in the purgatory that is Baltimore, but I bet Stockstill is checking out the farm systems of the Angels and Dodgers.

 

If that's the case, then I'd rather Hendry cut out the middle man, lose his obsession with Tejada, and go after some of the Angels' best prospects.

 

Not a bad idea in another situation, but the Cubs have Pierre, Ramirez, Barrett and Lee in their prime and are leaning on a couple of promising rookies in the starting lineup (Murton, Cedeno). That combination might be leading Hendry to get Tejada and Bedard for results now rather than some of the Angels' prospects who will bloom in two years.

[TarzanJoeWallis]

I'm not sure yet how I feel about this trade if it happens, but why do so many people act like Prior has only had freak injuries?

 

Yes, he got hit by the line drive last season and had the collision with Marcus Giles three seasons ago, but two years ago he missed half of the season with arm and achilles problems, and if I recall correctly, he had more troubles last year in spring training. Those setbacks were not freak injuries.

 

I don't know the rules for posting links to ESPN Insider information, so I won't, but there is a link on that site right now of Peter Gammons and Steve Phillips from ESPN Radio a few days ago. I know many people here don't think much of either, but both essentially say the trade will not happen because Tejada and Bedard are too much to give up for Prior. Gammons said the Orioles consider Tejada and Bedard "certainties," and that Prior is an "uncertainty" because of his health history.

[8-8-88]

I'm starting to hope that the Orioles accept the trade. I know Prior is only 25, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that either Priors career is going to go the route of Kerry Wood if he stays with the Cubs. It's tough to not wish the Cubs would have traded Wood a few years ago and gotten something of value for him. I'm just sick of sitting around and waiting for Cubs prospects to never pan out.

 

Wood hasn't panned out because he's had all sorts of arm trouble. Prior hasn't reached his potential because of freak injuries. There's no reason to expect Wood's pattern to change. There are reasons to expect Prior's to.

 

Worst Cubbie trade in my lifetime. Bleh.

 

Can you explain how it is the worst trade during your lifetime? Prior has won 18 games once. Tejada is an MVP and perennial all-star, along with being possibly the best SS in the game.

Edited December 27, 2005 by 8-8-88

[RammyFanny]

Heads Up: Bruce will be on ESPN1000 at 4:20 for those couple of people who are interested in this :wink:

[TheDude]

Here's the thing though. We already have Cedeno, who has a pretty good shot to be league average at SS. The positional scarcity is not a big a plus for us. Furthermore, given his age and that he's average at best defensively, there's a decent likelihood that he'll have to move to 3B or LF, at which point he becomes Luis Gonzalez.

 

There is no likelyhood that he will have to move positions. Why does age 31 equate to inability to play SS at the same level?

[CubfaninCA]

I really doubt the organization wanted to spend 6 & 72 @ the time when they needed a #5 and bullpen help, as well. Also, Tejada may have much preferred going east back then. That being said..... If this deal goes down, this will exemplify why this organization will never get over the hump, and I'll assume there's internal problems w/ Prior and the organization. At least the offense will be quite exciting for a change. :)

 

Another thing... The offense in 04 looked pretty good w/ Lee, Walker/Grudz, ARam, Alou, Patterson & Sosa. Of course, Patterson has turned out to be an absolute flop.

Edited December 27, 2005 by CubfaninCA

[goonys evil twin]

I'm starting to hope that the Orioles accept the trade. I know Prior is only 25, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that either Priors career is going to go the route of Kerry Wood if he stays with the Cubs. It's tough to not wish the Cubs would have traded Wood a few years ago and gotten something of value for him. I'm just sick of sitting around and waiting for Cubs prospects to never pan out.

 

Wood hasn't panned out because he's had all sorts of arm trouble. Prior hasn't reached his potential because of freak injuries. There's no reason to expect Wood's pattern to change. There are reasons to expect Prior's to.

 

Worst Cubbie trade in my lifetime. Bleh.

 

Can you explain how it is the worst trade during your lifetime? Prior has won 18 games once. Tejada is an MVP and perennial all-star, along with being possibly the best SS in the game.

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

[RockTheIvy]

I really doubt the organization wanted to spend 6 & 72 @ the time when they needed a #5 and bullpen help, as well. Also, Tejada may have much preferred going east back then. That being said..... If this deal goes down, this will exemplify why this organization will never get over the hump, and I'll assume there's internal problems w/ Prior and the organization. At least the offense will be quite exciting for a change. :)

 

I'm torn because I think Prior will be an awesome pitcher in his career. However the addition of Tejada could be a real boost to the offense and Bedard could turn into a solid pitcher himself. Ugh.

[USSoccer]

I really doubt the organization wanted to spend 6 & 72 @ the time when they needed a #5 and bullpen help, as well. Also, Tejada may have much preferred going east back then. That being said..... If this deal goes down, this will exemplify why this organization will never get over the hump, and I'll assume there's internal problems w/ Prior and the organization. At least the offense will be quite exciting for a change. :)

 

If they really thought they needed a $9m #5 pitcher when they could have easily filled that role internally, or even through FA at a much cheaper cost, then that was a very, very bad decision.

[CubfaninCA]

I really doubt the organization wanted to spend 6 & 72 @ the time when they needed a #5 and bullpen help, as well. Also, Tejada may have much preferred going east back then. That being said..... If this deal goes down, this will exemplify why this organization will never get over the hump, and I'll assume there's internal problems w/ Prior and the organization. At least the offense will be quite exciting for a change. :)

 

I'm torn because I think Prior will be an awesome pitcher in his career. However the addition of Tejada could be a real boost to the offense and Bedard could turn into a solid pitcher himself. Ugh.

 

Lee, ARam & Tejada would be nearly as good as Pujols, Edmonds and Rolen at least. Of course, the Cubs can't inject scrapheap players into the lineup and have them exceed career numbers by 100 points. :(

 

I'll believe the deal when I see it. Still doesn't add up.

[goonys evil twin]

Here's the thing though. We already have Cedeno, who has a pretty good shot to be league average at SS. The positional scarcity is not a big a plus for us. Furthermore, given his age and that he's average at best defensively, there's a decent likelihood that he'll have to move to 3B or LF, at which point he becomes Luis Gonzalez.

 

There is no likelyhood that he will have to move positions. Why does age 31 equate to inability to play SS at the same level?

 

Because history has shown us that middle infielders often have to switch, or risk turning into defensive question marks. He probably won't have to switch at 31, but by 32 or 33 the likelihood increases quite a bit. Ripken waited until he was 35, but wasn't any good in the field from 32-34. Banks moved at 31. Yount moved at 29/30. Larkin had a very tough time being an everyday SS in his 30s. Tony Fernandez went from an everyday SS in his 20s to a part time 3B, part time SS, part time 2B in his 30s. All time great middle infielders make their career in their 20's, and usually take a significant step back in their 30s. It's much easier for slugging first baseman and corner outfielders to age gracefully, the demand on the body isn't as great.

[Bull]

Here's the thing though. We already have Cedeno, who has a pretty good shot to be league average at SS. The positional scarcity is not a big a plus for us. Furthermore, given his age and that he's average at best defensively, there's a decent likelihood that he'll have to move to 3B or LF, at which point he becomes Luis Gonzalez.

 

There is no likelyhood that he will have to move positions. Why does age 31 equate to inability to play SS at the same level?

 

Because history has shown us that middle infielders often have to switch, or risk turning into defensive question marks. He probably won't have to switch at 31, but by 32 or 33 the likelihood increases quite a bit. Ripken waited until he was 35, but wasn't any good in the field from 32-34. Banks moved at 31. Yount moved at 29/30. Larkin had a very tough time being an everyday SS in his 30s. Tony Fernandez went from an everyday SS in his 20s to a part time 3B, part time SS, part time 2B in his 30s. All time great middle infielders make their career in their 20's, and usually take a significant step back in their 30s. It's much easier for slugging first baseman and corner outfielders to age gracefully, the demand on the body isn't as great.

 

No wonder there was no love for nomar this offseason. BTW this is the best argument against this trade that I have seen so far.

[erik316wttn]

Prior for Tejada would be Brock for Brolgio II.

[8-8-88]

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Just got back from xmas with the folks, whats the latest on all this?? still just romours?? reading o's fans comments they want a kings ransom for tejada, they would like 2 superstar players, any info on latest situation would be gratefully received, happy xmas and new year!!.

[CubfaninCA]

I really doubt the organization wanted to spend 6 & 72 @ the time when they needed a #5 and bullpen help, as well. Also, Tejada may have much preferred going east back then. That being said..... If this deal goes down, this will exemplify why this organization will never get over the hump, and I'll assume there's internal problems w/ Prior and the organization. At least the offense will be quite exciting for a change. :)

 

If they really thought they needed a $9m #5 pitcher when they could have easily filled that role internally, or even through FA at a much cheaper cost, then that was a very, very bad decision.

 

Fwiw & iirc Maddux cost $6 million in 04 and Hawk $3.5 million, and trying to fill the #5 internally or on the cheap didn't work in 03. Estes was beyond brutal. I think it's safe to say that Patterson's demise is a reason why this deal may be going down. They had high hopes for him as a big time run producer.

[goonys evil twin]

Prior for Tejada would be Brock for Brolgio II.

 

Not exactly. Prior will be better than Brock but Tejada will be better than Broglio, and the Cardinals won't be involved.

[erik316wttn]

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

Would having one of the best INF's in the league really be a strength if we had to decimate our rotation in order to get it?

 

It's never a good idea to create one hole to fill another.

[Keener98]

I'm not sure yet how I feel about this trade if it happens, but why do so many people act like Prior has only had freak injuries?

 

Yes, he got hit by the line drive last season and had the collision with Marcus Giles three seasons ago, but two years ago he missed half of the season with arm and achilles problems, and if I recall correctly, he had more troubles last year in spring training. Those setbacks were not freak injuries.

 

I don't know the rules for posting links to ESPN Insider information, so I won't, but there is a link on that site right now of Peter Gammons and Steve Phillips from ESPN Radio a few days ago. I know many people here don't think much of either, but both essentially say the trade will not happen because Tejada and Bedard are too much to give up for Prior. Gammons said the Orioles consider Tejada and Bedard "certainties," and that Prior is an "uncertainty" because of his health history.

 

To say that Bedard is a "certainty" while Prior isnt because of health history is completely assanine, and shows why myself along with many others here dont think much of either of those 2.

[erik316wttn]

Prior for Tejada would be Brock for Brolgio II.

 

Not exactly. Prior will be better than Brock but Tejada will be better than Broglio, and the Cardinals won't be involved.

 

With our luck Tejada will break down in about 2 years, his contract will be an albatross, he won't be able to play short anymore, and Prior will thrive under Mazzone's wing and win about 3 Cy's.

[8-8-88]

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

Would having one of the best INF's in the league really be a strength if we had to decimate our rotation in order to get it?

 

It's never a good idea to create one hole to fill another.

 

You're right. Having Neifi start at SS is a much better option.

[erik316wttn]

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

Would having one of the best INF's in the league really be a strength if we had to decimate our rotation in order to get it?

 

It's never a good idea to create one hole to fill another.

 

You're right. Having Neifi start at SS is a much better option.

 

Yeah. Because we have NOBODY ELSE IN THE WHOLE SYSTEM *cough*Cedeno*cough* who is capable of playing shortstop.

 

Do you really think trading a once in a lifetime pitcher like Prior for a shortstop who will only be an elite shortstop for another 3 years or so is really a good idea?