[The Voice of Reason]

i never thought i'd rue the day the cubs missed out on ridiculously overpaying for furcal. i'd take an overpaid furcal + prior over tejada + bedard any day.

 

if hendry had such a man crush on tejada, why didn't he just sign him after 2003...without having to give up prior? pretty sure prior + tejada > prior + alex gonzalez and tejada + bedard.

 

the good news is, after prior wins six cy youngs in the AL, the cubs can bid against themselves and sign a 38 year old prior to a stupid 3 year deal 13 years from now.

 

They couldn't afford him in 2003 because of the ridiculous contract MacPhail gave to Sosa.

[goonys evil twin]

So does anyone else think this will be the first of 2 moves? If it goes through, The Cubs keep Bedard, and trade Tejada to the Red Sox along with CPat, or Murton for Manny and cash. Then maybe putting a package together for Zito, or try and sign Weaver. Thoughts?

 

That would be even worse. I'd take Tejada over Manny.

 

I hope none of these deals happen. I dont want prior going anywhere.

 

God, this feels like the sick feeling I got when sosa got traded last year. :cry:

 

No kidding. Prior for Tejada isn't good, Prior for Manny is even worse.

[Burtonbell]

 

No kidding. Prior for Tejada isn't good, Prior for Manny is even worse.

 

Prior for anyone not named Pujols is even worse.

[USSoccer]

Is there a way to flood Hendry with emails expressing our displeasure with his actions?

[abuck1220]

i never thought i'd rue the day the cubs missed out on ridiculously overpaying for furcal. i'd take an overpaid furcal + prior over tejada + bedard any day.

 

if hendry had such a man crush on tejada, why didn't he just sign him after 2003...without having to give up prior? pretty sure prior + tejada > prior + alex gonzalez and tejada + bedard.

 

the good news is, after prior wins six cy youngs in the AL, the cubs can bid against themselves and sign a 38 year old prior to a stupid 3 year deal 13 years from now.

 

They couldn't afford him in 2003 because of the ridiculous contract MacPhail gave to Sosa.

 

but now they can 'afford' to get him by giving up a stud SP?

 

sorry, but it's going to be tough for hendry to justify saying it was not in the cubs best interest to sign him in 2004 because of $, but it is in the cubs best interests now to give him the same $ PLUS prior.

 

this is maddux all over again.

[RynoRules]

So does anyone else think this will be the first of 2 moves? If it goes through, The Cubs keep Bedard, and trade Tejada to the Red Sox along with CPat, or Murton for Manny and cash. Then maybe putting a package together for Zito, or try and sign Weaver. Thoughts?

 

I don't think they have the payroll room to sign Weaver if they trade for Tejada.

 

I am not sure if my earlier comments made it into this thread, but I think Walker becomes expendable if Tejada is acquired. Thus, JH will likely seek to spin him offto a team in need of 2B/DH in return for a vet SP. I asked for ideas earlier on who that might be. So far, I have only the Mets, but may be some one else can come up w/ a few others.

[JWCUB]

Does anyone have Miggys and Mannys OBP and VORP splits for the past 5 seasons?

[JWCUB]

So does anyone else think this will be the first of 2 moves? If it goes through, The Cubs keep Bedard, and trade Tejada to the Red Sox along with CPat, or Murton for Manny and cash. Then maybe putting a package together for Zito, or try and sign Weaver. Thoughts?

 

I don't think they have the payroll room to sign Weaver if they trade for Tejada.

 

I am not sure if my earlier comments made it into this thread, but I think Walker becomes expendable if Tejada is acquired. Thus, JH will likely seek to spin him offto a team in need of 2B/DH in return for a vet SP. I asked for ideas earlier on who that might be. So far, I have only the Mets, but may be some one else can come up w/ a few others.

 

The Blue Jays now.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

So does anyone else think this will be the first of 2 moves? If it goes through, The Cubs keep Bedard, and trade Tejada to the Red Sox along with CPat, or Murton for Manny and cash. Then maybe putting a package together for Zito, or try and sign Weaver. Thoughts?

 

I don't think they have the payroll room to sign Weaver if they trade for Tejada.

 

I am not sure if my earlier comments made it into this thread, but I think Walker becomes expendable if Tejada is acquired. Thus, JH will likely seek to spin him offto a team in need of 2B/DH in return for a vet SP. I asked for ideas earlier on who that might be. So far, I have only the Mets, but may be some one else can come up w/ a few others.

 

The Blue Jays now.

 

The Blue Jays have a hot shot 2B prospect they are bringing up.

[BigbadB]

i never thought i'd rue the day the cubs missed out on ridiculously overpaying for furcal. i'd take an overpaid furcal + prior over tejada + bedard any day.

 

if hendry had such a man crush on tejada, why didn't he just sign him after 2003...without having to give up prior? pretty sure prior + tejada > prior + alex gonzalez and tejada + bedard.

 

the good news is, after prior wins six cy youngs in the AL, the cubs can bid against themselves and sign a 38 year old prior to a stupid 3 year deal 13 years from now.

 

They couldn't afford him in 2003 because of the ridiculous contract MacPhail gave to Sosa.

 

Actually, they could afford him. He was a free agent at the end of the '03 season. Cubs management spent money on Grudz, Walker, Hawkins and Maddux to name a few. He also added Nomar at the trade deadline. By the way, Tejada made 7m in 2004 with that shiny, new deal.

 

Affordable? Absolutely. Alex Gonzalez got 5.5m in 2004. Hendry was able to move Hundley and his 6m contract the previous year, so thinking there was no way they could move the guy who botched the ground ball in the NL Championship series is not reasonable. Alex had a lot more value than Hundley did.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And that is because they overvalue Tejada. I don't care what the perception is around baseball message boards, Prior is better than Tejada. Prior may have gotten injured a few times, but Tejada is vastly overrated.

 

I agree Prior is the better player but Tejada is not "vastly overrated". For a SS to produce 6 year averages of -

 

.800+ OPS

118 RBI (avg)

30 HR (avg)

 

- is incredible. An argument for age (31) and decline may be legitimate in terms of future value. But I wouldn't call Tejada overrated against his peers at SS by a long shot.

 

Here's the thing though. We already have Cedeno, who has a pretty good shot to be league average at SS. The positional scarcity is not a big a plus for us. Furthermore, given his age and that he's average at best defensively, there's a decent likelihood that he'll have to move to 3B or LF, at which point he becomes Luis Gonzalez.

[FergieJ31]

One of the posts asked why, if Hendry had such a man-crush on Tejada, did he not sign him when he was a FA two years ago. One answer is, of course, an albatross who wore #21, but I agree with the sentiment ... after all, Hendry was looking at starting '04 with AGony at SS. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

Another poster lamented that if this trade went down it'd end up going down in "Brock for Broglio" infamy. I absolutely agree with this comparison -- it's not "Cub fans overvaluing Cub players" hyperbole.

 

Thing is, this time arguably it's worse. When the Cubs traded for Broglio they only had a faint glimmer of Brock's true talent: he hit about .257 with the Cubs in 2 1/2 seasons, OBP barely above .300 but with great speed. Meanwhile Broglio had come off an 18-8, ERA = 2.99 season in 1963, and was 60-38 since 1960 with 3 sub-3.00 ERA seasons. So one can't fault the Cubs TOO much(*) then for not knowing Brock would go on to steal 118 bases with a .368 OBP 10 years later, and the subsequent suckitude that would befall Broglio.

 

This time the Cubs can't say they haven't seen what Prior is capable of, his true potential.

 

(*) I'm probably on thin ice for pushing this point too far, but I'm comparing their knowledge of Brock then to their knowledge of Prior now.

[USSoccer]

i never thought i'd rue the day the cubs missed out on ridiculously overpaying for furcal. i'd take an overpaid furcal + prior over tejada + bedard any day.

 

if hendry had such a man crush on tejada, why didn't he just sign him after 2003...without having to give up prior? pretty sure prior + tejada > prior + alex gonzalez and tejada + bedard.

 

the good news is, after prior wins six cy youngs in the AL, the cubs can bid against themselves and sign a 38 year old prior to a stupid 3 year deal 13 years from now.

 

They couldn't afford him in 2003 because of the ridiculous contract MacPhail gave to Sosa.

 

Actually, they could afford him. He was a free agent at the end of the '03 season. Cubs management spent money on Grudz, Walker, Hawkins and Maddux to name a few. He also added Nomar at the trade deadline. By the way, Tejada made 7m in 2004 with that shiny, new deal.

 

Affordable? Absolutely. Alex Gonzalez got 5.5m in 2004. Hendry was able to move Hundley and his 6m contract the previous year, so thinking there was no way they could move the guy who botched the ground ball in the NL Championship series is not reasonable. Alex had a lot more value than Hundley did.

 

You can take it a couple steps farther and say that had the Cubs not traded Choi for Lee, they would have been able to afford both Gonzo and Tejada if Alex proved impossible to move, or, Hendry could have gone to the Trib to authorize extra money for Tejada instead of for Maddux. Given Gonzo's NLCS error, and Tejada's rep, it might have been an easier conversation than adding a $9m 5th starter.

 

There were tons of ways Hendry could have added Tejada

[RockTheIvy]

One of the posts asked why, if Hendry had such a man-crush on Tejada, did he not sign him when he was a FA two years ago. One answer is, of course, an albatross who wore #21, but I agree with the sentiment ... after all, Hendry was looking at starting '04 with AGony at SS. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

Another poster lamented that if this trade went down it'd end up going down in "Brock for Broglio" infamy. I absolutely agree with this comparison -- it's not "Cub fans overvaluing Cub players" hyperbole.

 

Thing is, this time arguably it's worse. When the Cubs traded for Broglio they only had a faint glimmer of Brock's true talent: he hit about .257 with the Cubs in 2 1/2 seasons, OBP barely above .300 but with great speed. Meanwhile Broglio had come off an 18-8, ERA = 2.99 season in 1963, and was 60-38 since 1960 with 3 sub-3.00 ERA seasons. So one can't fault the Cubs TOO much(*) then for not knowing Brock would go on to steal 118 bases with a .368 OBP 10 years later, and the subsequent suckitude that would befall Broglio.

 

This time the Cubs can't say they haven't seen what Prior is capable of, his true potential.

 

(*) I'm probably on thin ice for pushing this point too far, but I'm comparing their knowledge of Brock then to their knowledge of Prior now.

 

I'm hoping this info that Hendry has on Prior is something that makes this trade make sense. Otherwise it is very near sighted.

[RockTheIvy]

i never thought i'd rue the day the cubs missed out on ridiculously overpaying for furcal. i'd take an overpaid furcal + prior over tejada + bedard any day.

 

if hendry had such a man crush on tejada, why didn't he just sign him after 2003...without having to give up prior? pretty sure prior + tejada > prior + alex gonzalez and tejada + bedard.

 

the good news is, after prior wins six cy youngs in the AL, the cubs can bid against themselves and sign a 38 year old prior to a stupid 3 year deal 13 years from now.

 

They couldn't afford him in 2003 because of the ridiculous contract MacPhail gave to Sosa.

 

Actually, they could afford him. He was a free agent at the end of the '03 season. Cubs management spent money on Grudz, Walker, Hawkins and Maddux to name a few. He also added Nomar at the trade deadline. By the way, Tejada made 7m in 2004 with that shiny, new deal.

 

Affordable? Absolutely. Alex Gonzalez got 5.5m in 2004. Hendry was able to move Hundley and his 6m contract the previous year, so thinking there was no way they could move the guy who botched the ground ball in the NL Championship series is not reasonable. Alex had a lot more value than Hundley did.

 

You can take it a couple steps farther and say that had the Cubs not traded Choi for Lee, they would have been able to afford both Gonzo and Tejada if Alex proved impossible to move, or, Hendry could have gone to the Trib to authorize extra money for Tejada instead of for Maddux. Given Gonzo's NLCS error, and Tejada's rep, it might have been an easier conversation than adding a $9m 5th starter.

 

There were tons of ways Hendry could have added Tejada

 

THe NLCS error, IMO, should have cost Kgonz his spot on the team, just like the Pedro fiasco cost Grady Little his job in Boston. It's amazing that people forget about that botched play. THat should have been enough to trade him for garbage and eat 4mil of his salary, then sign Tejada.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm speechless. I simply cannot believe this.

 

Someone mentioned flooding Hendry's email with mail of displeasure. safer bet may be to flood Angelos mailbox preteding to be angry Orioles fans.

"You're gonna trade an former MVP for some overhyped injury prone pitcher?" and the like.

[The Voice of Reason]

i never thought i'd rue the day the cubs missed out on ridiculously overpaying for furcal. i'd take an overpaid furcal + prior over tejada + bedard any day.

 

if hendry had such a man crush on tejada, why didn't he just sign him after 2003...without having to give up prior? pretty sure prior + tejada > prior + alex gonzalez and tejada + bedard.

 

the good news is, after prior wins six cy youngs in the AL, the cubs can bid against themselves and sign a 38 year old prior to a stupid 3 year deal 13 years from now.

 

They couldn't afford him in 2003 because of the ridiculous contract MacPhail gave to Sosa.

 

Actually, they could afford him. He was a free agent at the end of the '03 season. Cubs management spent money on Grudz, Walker, Hawkins and Maddux to name a few. He also added Nomar at the trade deadline. By the way, Tejada made 7m in 2004 with that shiny, new deal.

 

Affordable? Absolutely. Alex Gonzalez got 5.5m in 2004. Hendry was able to move Hundley and his 6m contract the previous year, so thinking there was no way they could move the guy who botched the ground ball in the NL Championship series is not reasonable. Alex had a lot more value than Hundley did.

 

You can take it a couple steps farther and say that had the Cubs not traded Choi for Lee, they would have been able to afford both Gonzo and Tejada if Alex proved impossible to move, or, Hendry could have gone to the Trib to authorize extra money for Tejada instead of for Maddux. Given Gonzo's NLCS error, and Tejada's rep, it might have been an easier conversation than adding a $9m 5th starter.

 

There were tons of ways Hendry could have added Tejada

 

 

Too bad one of them wasn't dumping Sosa before the Gladiator had lost all his value.

[TXCubsFan]

Why are they so hell bent on trading Prior? If you do, Z is the only constant in the rotation. Wood won't be ready. Maddux is done. Williams isn't more than a #3, as is Rusch.

 

This trade would make the rotation very mediocre. We don't need offense that badly.

 

I think JH is counting on the rotation looking like this:

 

Z

Wood

Maddux

Williams

Guzman

 

I'd certainly rather it be that way than having Rusch in the rotation, so may be its wishful thinking on my part.

Aside from Z the pitching rotation would be pathetic. Do you guys really expect Wood to be back and injury free? Maddux is likely going to regress again this year. Williams is a good #5 right now and Guzman is in the same category as Wood. TERRIBLE.

 

Wouldn't the rotation be,

 

Z

Wood

Maddux

Bedard

Williams

 

It's hard for me to believe that Hendry could survive another offseason after trading away Sosa and Prior for less than full value in the previous 2.

 

Sosa: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4344

Hairston: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6127

 

Looks to me that we got good value for Sosa. :wink:

[BigbadB]

You can take it a couple steps farther and say that had the Cubs not traded Choi for Lee, they would have been able to afford both Gonzo and Tejada if Alex proved impossible to move, or, Hendry could have gone to the Trib to authorize extra money for Tejada instead of for Maddux. Given Gonzo's NLCS error, and Tejada's rep, it might have been an easier conversation than adding a $9m 5th starter.

 

There were tons of ways Hendry could have added Tejada

 

Whoops. I forgot to include the Derrek Lee trade. Derrek Lee was on the trade block all through the 2003 season and no one wanted him.

 

Hendry made out well on that deal. Lee had only a slight edge in OPS over Choi in 2004, though Choi was strictly platooned. I think the Lee/Choi trade could have still gone down with a Tejada signing. They also could have went with one or the other of Grudz or Walker at 2nd.

 

The real non move would have been the non signing of Maddux. Zambrano, Prior, Wood, Clement and Cruz would have been alright for me.

[TXCubsFan]

Why are they so hell bent on trading Prior? If you do, Z is the only constant in the rotation. Wood won't be ready. Maddux is done. Williams isn't more than a #3, as is Rusch.

 

This trade would make the rotation very mediocre. We don't need offense that badly.

 

I think JH is counting on the rotation looking like this:

 

Z

Wood

Maddux

Williams

Guzman

 

I'd certainly rather it be that way than having Rusch in the rotation, so may be its wishful thinking on my part.

Aside from Z the pitching rotation would be pathetic. Do you guys really expect Wood to be back and injury free? Maddux is likely going to regress again this year. Williams is a good #5 right now and Guzman is in the same category as Wood. TERRIBLE.

 

So in the end we're going to lose Prior because we lost on Furcal.

 

Jim.... settle down. Tejada is NOT worth Prior. Give them Hill, CPatt, Guz, and another. If they turn it down, it's their loss.

 

Of course Baltimore is going to take this trade. They'd be idiots not to.

 

I hate you, Jim. Honestly, truly hate you.

 

 

You guys keep forgetting Bedard. He's a huge chip.

 

Prior + Hill > Tejada + Bedard

 

I disagree IF Guzman is healthy.

[RockTheIvy]

You can take it a couple steps farther and say that had the Cubs not traded Choi for Lee, they would have been able to afford both Gonzo and Tejada if Alex proved impossible to move, or, Hendry could have gone to the Trib to authorize extra money for Tejada instead of for Maddux. Given Gonzo's NLCS error, and Tejada's rep, it might have been an easier conversation than adding a $9m 5th starter.

 

There were tons of ways Hendry could have added Tejada

 

Whoops. I forgot to include the Derrek Lee trade. Derrek Lee was on the trade block all through the 2003 season and no one wanted him.

 

Hendry made out well on that deal. Lee had only a slight edge in OPS over Choi in 2004, though Choi was strictly platooned. I think the Lee/Choi trade could have still gone down with a Tejada signing. They also could have went with one or the other of Grudz or Walker at 2nd.

 

The real non move would have been the non signing of Maddux. Zambrano, Prior, Wood, Clement and Cruz would have been alright for me.

 

This is why, just for like a season, it would be nice to have the Boston/NY mentality for players: Get what you need even if you have to overpay. I wouldn't mind overpaying for crap like Howry and Eyre (I know they aren't crap) if we would just overpay once and a while on a player like Vlad or Beltran or Tejada a few years ago. We always are overpaying for the Toyotas, which even with the extra dough thrown at them, still perform like Toyotas. Can we please overpay for a Porsche? Just once?

[8-8-88]

I'm starting to hope that the Orioles accept the trade. I know Prior is only 25, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that either Priors career is going to go the route of Kerry Wood if he stays with the Cubs. It's tough to not wish the Cubs would have traded Wood a few years ago and gotten something of value for him. I'm just sick of sitting around and waiting for Cubs prospects to never pan out.

[Iceblink]

I'm starting to hope that the Orioles accept the trade. I know Prior is only 25, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that either Priors career is going to go the route of Kerry Wood if he stays with the Cubs. It's tough to not wish the Cubs would have traded Wood a few years ago and gotten something of value for him. I'm just sick of sitting around and waiting for Cubs prospects to never pan out.

 

Wood hasn't panned out because he's had all sorts of arm trouble. Prior hasn't reached his potential because of freak injuries. There's no reason to expect Wood's pattern to change. There are reasons to expect Prior's to.

 

Worst Cubbie trade in my lifetime. Bleh.

[TXCubsFan]

Its an interesting question:

 

If Prior is indeed "out there", why haven't there been more phone calls about him? Or have there? Interesting.

 

Also, I think its a little strong to "hate" Hendry. Dislike what he is doing or think its the mark of a man on the verge of a breakdown, sure. But "hate" is a bit much.

 

Good question. Gotta figured New York and Boston will come a callin soon. Hopefully, Hendry keeps holding his cards for a while.

 

If Prior can't handle being dangled as trade bait & his feelings are crushed, I don't want him anyway. He hasn't pitched well enough to be considered untouchable. Perhaps he's getting a little bit of a swollen head?? Who knows.

 

Good catch on chemistry btw.

 

Thanks.

 

Also, I think its worth throwing around the notion that Prior has no intention of staying here once he hits his walk year. Could he be Giles-like in that he will be headed back to So Cal no matter what? Its possible, I guess, that JH knows this or strongly suspects it and therefore is trying to trade Prior before his bargaining position becomes weak or desperate (the opposite of what he did with Sammy).

 

Or maybe Prior privately requested a trade too.

 

He's had a run of bad luck here in Chicago, so he might want a fresh start. If he does want to return to SoCal long-term, nothing wrong with Hendry getting value for him now. He may spend a year in the purgatory that is Baltimore, but I bet Stockstill is checking out the farm systems of the Angels and Dodgers.

[Iceblink]

He's had a run of bad luck here in Chicago, so he might want a fresh start. If he does want to return to SoCal long-term, nothing wrong with Hendry getting value for him now. He may spend a year in the purgatory that is Baltimore, but I bet Stockstill is checking out the farm systems of the Angels and Dodgers.

 

If that's the case, then I'd rather Hendry cut out the middle man, lose his obsession with Tejada, and go after some of the Angels' best prospects.