[CardsFanInChiTown]

You guys keep forgetting Bedard. He's a huge chip.

 

I think he's way too overinflated. The guy has had worse injury concerns than Prior, is older, and has a much less impressive track record. People are talking about him like he's some hot shot 23 year old prospect without blemishes on his resume.

 

I'm not saying he's Prior but he's a pretty nice guy to have around.

[erik316wttn]

Why are they so hell bent on trading Prior? If you do, Z is the only constant in the rotation. Wood won't be ready. Maddux is done. Williams isn't more than a #3, as is Rusch.

 

This trade would make the rotation very mediocre. We don't need offense that badly.

 

I think JH is counting on the rotation looking like this:

 

Z

Wood

Maddux

Williams

Guzman

 

I'd certainly rather it be that way than having Rusch in the rotation, so may be its wishful thinking on my part.

Aside from Z the pitching rotation would be pathetic. Do you guys really expect Wood to be back and injury free? Maddux is likely going to regress again this year. Williams is a good #5 right now and Guzman is in the same category as Wood. TERRIBLE.

 

So in the end we're going to lose Prior because we lost on Furcal.

 

Jim.... settle down. Tejada is NOT worth Prior. Give them Hill, CPatt, Guz, and another. If they turn it down, it's their loss.

 

Of course Baltimore is going to take this trade. They'd be idiots not to.

 

I hate you, Jim. Honestly, truly hate you.

 

 

You guys keep forgetting Bedard. He's a huge chip.

 

Prior + Hill > Tejada + Bedard

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

You guys keep forgetting Bedard. He's a huge chip.

 

He's not significantly more valuable than Hill, who's also being moved in this deal.

 

I very much disagree. Bedard has shown he's been able to dominate at the MLB level, Hill has not. There are legit concerns about Hill being a AAAA player.

 

There's also legit concerns about Bedard being no better than a 1.50 WHIP guy at the major league level. His "dominance" was in a 60 IP span, and had some great fortune on balls in play. He's also 2 years older than Hill.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Transmogrified Tiger

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Prior + Hill > Tejada + Bedard

 

I agree.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm not liking this deal. As I have said, and others have said as well, if you want to move Prior, he should be openly shopped. There are better players than Tejada that could be had.

 

Imagine a trade with the Devil Rays. They need pitching and have no true ace. They could get value for Prior and then deal him at a later time.

 

Why not send Prior to the Devil Rays for Lugo, Huff, Dukes, and Gomes.

 

Then spin Lugo, Huff, and Patterson to the Red Sox for Manny and Clement. Send Manny and Hill to the Orioles for Tejada.

Edited December 27, 2005 by vance_the_cubs_fan

[rawaction]

I wouldn't expect Guzman to be ready for a rotation spot until midseason at the earliest. To count on him even remotely at the beginning of the season is quite a gamble.

 

With all of Guzman's injuries, going more than 125-130 innings next year wouldn't be a good idea, IMO. He needs to be handled with kid gloves, and it's going to take awhile to build up the stamina to go 6-7 innings a game for a full major league season.

 

 

Why midseason? He got thru the AFL healthy. I think he should be ready to go to start the season barring another set back. I assumed he would go to the minors first, but if he's gonna be pitching somewhere, it might as well be in Chicago. Even still, I would hope the Cubs would put him in Tennessee until the weather heats up.

 

The fact he pitched in the AFL is one reason all by itself. How many innings do you think he can withstand after pitching so few these past few years?

 

He hasn't pitched over 100 innings since 2002. He's one of my favorite prospects, but counting on him to give you 160+ innings as a 5th starter is just not a good idea in my mind. At least not in 2006.

 

Well, if he's gonna come up at midseason, he's gonna have to pitch somewhere before then, right? If he makes it from the AS break to the finish in the Cubs rotation, that's a good 80-100 IP, in addition to what he throws in the minors, he'd be pretty close to 160. I agree that counting on him to give you 160+ is not a good idea, but he's at the age now that if he's healthy, you go with him in the majors as soon and as long as possible to maximize his value.

[professahesse]

Mightnot even a 1.50 whip in the American Lg. be considerably different in the Natl.?

[rawaction]

The worst thing about this is Prior isn't gonna be a Cub after 2008 with all this trade talk happening. He has more value right now than he will ever have to the Cubs again as far as trades are concerned.

 

My opinion is that the Cubs pretty much have to trade him now. Obviously, they can make amends or get rid of the entire front office and put a great team around him, but I think Prior has been loyal and I don't think he will think too highly of hearing his name in trade rumors.

 

I agree with most that they should just put him out there and see what they can get for him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Mightnot even a 1.50 whip in the American Lg. be considerably different in the Natl.?

 

When it comes to baserunners allowed, I don't think there's a significant difference between leagues.

[goonys evil twin]

I very much disagree. Bedard has shown he's been able to dominate at the MLB level, Hill has not. There are legit concerns about Hill being a AAAA player.

 

There has to be at least as much concern that Bedard is nothing but a former prospect. He's 27 and hasn't done much of anything in the majors. It says a lot that baseballreference.com lists Dave Williams as the most similar pitcher. Another guy who he was very similar to at the same age was the extremely mediocre Chris Hammond. This is clearly the case of his left handedness greatly increasing his value, which will always hurt the acquiring team. Put his results on a RHP and he's nothing special, at all.

 

He's a chip, but nothing more. He does nothing to solidify an already shaky rotation that will turn into shambles with Prior gone.

[YearofDaCubs]

This is just crazy. If the trade goes through we will regret the trade ever happened.

 

Prior will win at LEAST 2 Cy's in Baltimore. At least.

 

Leave it to Hendry to make the rotation a strength, then make it a glaring weakness at the expense of a 30 year old shortstop on the downturn.

And then people wonder why he gets criticized.

 

Maybe its pointless to point this out, but the trade hasn't actually been agreed to yet. This wouldn't be the first time Levine and the sports media have been very wrong about something.

 

If this trade does happen, it will probably be by far the worst deal Hendry has made. But if I remember correctly, someone said Levine was still reporting it as a 50/50 chance that any kind of trade gets made.

It doesn't matter if the trade hasn't gone through. Hendry has done stuff the past couple of years that have left him open to be criticized and IMO even offering Prior up for trade isn't a good thing either. What does that tell the player if the trade fell through? All of a sudden we have disgruntled players on this team. Then again he won't be the first to be disgruntled under Hendry's tenure.

[RynoRules]

Mightnot even a 1.50 whip in the American Lg. be considerably different in the Natl.?

 

When it comes to baserunners allowed, I don't think there's a significant difference between leagues.

 

Except that the picther does not hit in the AL, which changes teh face of a lineup and leads to fewer sacrifice bunts.

[Burtonbell]

40 pages later and this trade still doesnt make any sense.

Bedard is not even worth Hill IMO. Hendry is overpaying to get Tejada. I think a better idea is to keep Prior and use Williams or Hill to get a bat. Dont know what bat that would be. Hey I sound like a GM!

 

Bart no like. Bad medicine.

[RynoRules]

This is just crazy. If the trade goes through we will regret the trade ever happened.

 

Prior will win at LEAST 2 Cy's in Baltimore. At least.

 

Leave it to Hendry to make the rotation a strength, then make it a glaring weakness at the expense of a 30 year old shortstop on the downturn.

And then people wonder why he gets criticized.

 

Maybe its pointless to point this out, but the trade hasn't actually been agreed to yet. This wouldn't be the first time Levine and the sports media have been very wrong about something.

 

If this trade does happen, it will probably be by far the worst deal Hendry has made. But if I remember correctly, someone said Levine was still reporting it as a 50/50 chance that any kind of trade gets made.

It doesn't matter if the trade hasn't gone through. Hendry has done stuff the past couple of years that have left him open to be criticized and IMO even offering Prior up for trade isn't a good thing either. What does that tell the player if the trade fell through? All of a sudden we have disgruntled players on this team. Then again he won't be the first to be disgruntled under Hendry's tenure.

 

I am sorry, and I am not saying that you or anyone else currently involved in thsi convo was one of these guys, but a few months ago we had a protracted discussion re the relative importance (and existence) of "chemistry". Most asserted that it does not exist or that is does not matter. Many who took this position asserted that players should just perform and and be pros and not worry about their "feelings". I disagreed, arguing that this was an unrealistic approach.

 

Does your bolded statement imply that Prior's feelings could effect his performance and the team's overall chemistry? Does anyone else think it might?

[CubsWin22]

BRUCE LEVINE UPDATE 12/27 AM

The Cubs have presented several different packages to the Orioles, and they are waiting for the team owner to look them over and decide if any fits their needs.

 

He gives the trade a 50/50 shot of being completed.

 

He mentioned that some of the "packages" included Cedeno, others included Hill, some were more propect intense and others were more veteran slanted. He mentioned that it could be a bunch of propects or a couple veterans. The one consistent was Prior.

 

He also mentioned that the Cubs want Bedard in return, and that the organization believes that one of their pitching propects will be ready to move up to the big league next year. The top candidate is Guzman, he reportedly had a fantastic run in the AZ Fall League.

 

Bruce said that he has sources in the Cubs front office, in MLB home office, and other scouts throughout baseball.

 

Apparently there is some reason that Hendry is offering Prior other than just getting Tejada. Big Z is not being considered for a trade in any way. Bruce said that "scouts" are high on Bedard, and see something in Prior that has Hendry concerned. I have no idea what that is????????

 

Bump this to the end here for those who didn't see this about an hour ago...

[BigbadB]

Well, if he's gonna come up at midseason, he's gonna have to pitch somewhere before then, right? If he makes it from the AS break to the finish in the Cubs rotation, that's a good 80-100 IP, in addition to what he throws in the minors, he'd be pretty close to 160. I agree that counting on him to give you 160+ is not a good idea, but he's at the age now that if he's healthy, you go with him in the majors as soon and as long as possible to maximize his value.

 

Sure, he'll need to pitch somewhere before then. 3-5 inning outings aren't recommended at the major league level. It's going to take time to build up arm strength. Maybe by midseason he'll have the stamina to give you 5 or 6 solid innings. Maybe sooner, but I wouldn't bet my life savings on it. That's all I'm saying.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This is just crazy. If the trade goes through we will regret the trade ever happened.

 

Prior will win at LEAST 2 Cy's in Baltimore. At least.

 

Leave it to Hendry to make the rotation a strength, then make it a glaring weakness at the expense of a 30 year old shortstop on the downturn.

And then people wonder why he gets criticized.

 

Maybe its pointless to point this out, but the trade hasn't actually been agreed to yet. This wouldn't be the first time Levine and the sports media have been very wrong about something.

 

If this trade does happen, it will probably be by far the worst deal Hendry has made. But if I remember correctly, someone said Levine was still reporting it as a 50/50 chance that any kind of trade gets made.

It doesn't matter if the trade hasn't gone through. Hendry has done stuff the past couple of years that have left him open to be criticized and IMO even offering Prior up for trade isn't a good thing either. What does that tell the player if the trade fell through? All of a sudden we have disgruntled players on this team. Then again he won't be the first to be disgruntled under Hendry's tenure.

 

I am sorry, and I am not saying that you or anyone else currently involved in thsi convo was one of these guys, but a few months ago we had a protracted discussion re the relative importance (and existence) of "chemistry". Most asserted that it does not exist or that is does not matter. Many who took this position asserted that players should just perform and and be pros and not worry about their "feelings". I disagreed, arguing that this was an unrealistic approach.

 

Does your bolded statement imply that Prior's feelings could effect his performance and the team's overall chemistry? Does anyone else think it might?

 

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but like Sulley said in another thread, my concern is Prior's willingness to stay with the organization after being thrown into trade talks, not on how he's going to affect the clubhouse atmosphere.

[goonys evil twin]

I am sorry, and I am not saying that you or anyone else currently involved in thsi convo was one of these guys, but a few months ago we had a protracted discussion re the relative importance (and existence) of "chemistry". Most asserted that it does not exist or that is does not matter. Many who took this position asserted that players should just perform and and be pros and not worry about their "feelings". I disagreed, arguing that this was an unrealistic approach.

 

Does your bolded statement imply that Prior's feelings could effect his performance and the team's overall chemistry? Does anyone else think it might?

 

Disgruntled players who don't like how management treats them is different from the whole idea of team chemistry as is often talked about when making trades or signing "clubhouse guys". Chemistry is a hocus pocus description of a team after they've had success. You don't look at a team and say "wow, they have good chemistry, they are going to be good." You win or lose based on production of individual players and that has nothing to do with chemistry.

 

Regardless, I'm not worried about how Prior will respond to these rumors as it pertains to his performance. I am worried how it will affect future contract negotiations.

 

And it absolutely disgusts me that this team prides itself on being a place where players want to come play, but that management only seems to be concerned with the very old or very mediocre player and his desires, as opposed to the young studs like Prior.

[RynoRules]

I guess I read this s being concerned about Prior's "feelings" after having his name thrown around in trade rumors, but nevermind. Lets get back...

 

:ontopic:

[Mizzou]

If we're trading Mark Prior, we damn well better get someone better than Miguel Tejada for him.

[YearofDaCubs]

This is just crazy. If the trade goes through we will regret the trade ever happened.

 

Prior will win at LEAST 2 Cy's in Baltimore. At least.

 

Leave it to Hendry to make the rotation a strength, then make it a glaring weakness at the expense of a 30 year old shortstop on the downturn.

And then people wonder why he gets criticized.

 

Maybe its pointless to point this out, but the trade hasn't actually been agreed to yet. This wouldn't be the first time Levine and the sports media have been very wrong about something.

 

If this trade does happen, it will probably be by far the worst deal Hendry has made. But if I remember correctly, someone said Levine was still reporting it as a 50/50 chance that any kind of trade gets made.

It doesn't matter if the trade hasn't gone through. Hendry has done stuff the past couple of years that have left him open to be criticized and IMO even offering Prior up for trade isn't a good thing either. What does that tell the player if the trade fell through? All of a sudden we have disgruntled players on this team. Then again he won't be the first to be disgruntled under Hendry's tenure.

 

I am sorry, and I am not saying that you or anyone else currently involved in thsi convo was one of these guys, but a few months ago we had a protracted discussion re the relative importance (and existence) of "chemistry". Most asserted that it does not exist or that is does not matter. Many who took this position asserted that players should just perform and and be pros and not worry about their "feelings". I disagreed, arguing that this was an unrealistic approach.

 

Does your bolded statement imply that Prior's feelings could effect his performance and the team's overall chemistry? Does anyone else think it might?

I don't know if it does or not but Hendry has made it a point to sign guys or do things that are good for chemistry. I think to me at least trying to trade one of your better players and them finding out will make it more difficult for them to want to come back to this organization.

[badgercub]

I don't know if it does or not but Hendry has made it a point to sign guys or do things that are good for chemistry. I think to me at least trying to trade one of your better players and them finding out will make it more difficult for them to want to come back to this organization.

 

IMO, to most players, the only thing that matters is the "Benjamins". For the right price just about any player will sign anywhere.

[JC]

This is definitely not a good day to be surfing NSBB on my Treo.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't know if it does or not but Hendry has made it a point to sign guys or do things that are good for chemistry. I think to me at least trying to trade one of your better players and them finding out will make it more difficult for them to want to come back to this organization.

 

IMO, to most players, the only thing that matters is the "Benjamins". For the right price just about any player will sign anywhere.

 

however, if you perceive one organization as having treated you poorly, you are less likely to return to that team if offered the same money by a different team.

[JC]

 

IMO, to most players, the only thing that matters is the "Benjamins". For the right price just about any player will sign anywhere.

 

Don't the trade requests/demands of players like Manny, ARod and Miggy run contrary to the notion that players only want money?

Edited December 27, 2005 by JC