Cards Sign Juan Encarnacion

XZero771679666304 · December 28, 2005

If you would seriously take Spivey over Castillo, you are a fool. Junior has had one really good year, one slightly above average year, and has been decidedly mediocre the rest of the time. Castillo is a better hitter, is more patient, strikes out less and is a much better defender. Castillo >>>>>>>>>>> Spivey.

Ponson has a career 4.81 ERA. He has had two good seasons in the middle of an 8 year crap sandwich.

Miles absolutely stinks.

Looper is just another reliever with one really good season under his belt.

Bigbie's ceiling is that of a slightly above average OF.

Ricardo Rincon is the only acquisition with a decebt overall track record, and he is years removed from his best numbers.

Encarnacion stinks.

No matter how you spin it, this is the worst offseason Walt has had in a long while, even in terms of risk/potential upside signings.

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

He's about the size of several mobile home communities and has a limited work ethic, the odds of him coming close to his best numbers are slim.

David Wells is fat and pitched a perfect game.

Spivey hasn't been good in a couple of years, cost isn't the only area that lack of production is factored, it also factors into expectations.

You're also reading the year-by-year breakdown wrong. Last season he was hurt and with two teams, so it looks like it was two years.

In 2004, his OPS was .780. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.

In 2004, his OPS was .759. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.

In 2004, his OPS was .865. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.

In 2004, his OPS was .777. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.

He was hurt in 2005 (hence the misleading numbers, and also the cheap asking price). How is that not a high-reward signing?

The odds of a player returning to form in his case are slim, you get a dumb and lazy player who has lost his edge, it is doubtful for him to regain it.

By all reports, he's quit drinking (which resulted in him being a lard-***) and sees a therapist once a week. Friends say he has lost weight. He admitted the pain he felt when looking into his mother's eyes and recognizing the pain he had caused. By all accounts he's a changed man. You can call me naive for "buying" the story surrounding him, but I think it's at least better than you, who seems to be ignorant on the topic of Ponson.

I expect both to be well below avg. and if each are starting, they will be blocking players that are better than them (Reyes and Luna).

And so does most of the league. As a result, they get practically nothing, salary-wise. It's a potentially-high reward situation. No one said it's a lock. But even if they do suck, you don't cripple your team.

And Ponson is not blocking Reyes. If Ponson works out, Marquis will be traded to strengthen the rest of the team. Luna is not better than the career average Junior Spivey (but he is comparable to Grudz).

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

If you would seriously take Spivey over Castillo, you are a fool. Junior has had one really good year, one slightly above average year, and has been decidedly mediocre the rest of the time. Castillo is a better hitter, is more patient, strikes out less and is a much better defender. Castillo >>>>>>>>>>> Spivey.

Castillo has zero power. None.

Spivey vs. Castillo is an example of the name attached to the player. If Castillo didn't win Gold Gloves (but was still great with the leather) and if he hadn't had like a 30-game hit streak, no one would think he is as good as he is.

He's the type of player who the media hypes, but who's numbers really don't back it up.

Ponson has a career 4.81 ERA. He has had two good seasons in the middle of an 8 year crap sandwich.

So for Spivey it's his career #s that are most important to look at. For Ponson it's his stats from 3 and 4 seasons ago. Never is it most important to look at what a player did last year.

He had a 5.30 ERA in 2004, and a 6.22 ERA in 2005. Don't you think those skew his career numbers? While it's not OK to dismiss them, the fact the he has had trouble with his life and alcohol undoubtedly had a drastic effect on his numbers.

Miles absolutely stinks.

Fortunately, the Spivey signing almost all-but-assures that Miles will be playing in AAA or on another team.

Looper is just another reliever with one really good season under his belt.

I'll take my chance with his 3.57 ERA; more importantly, his career GB:FB ratio is 2.00, exactly. That's the thing that was most intriguing to Walt, in my opinion.

Also, if I remember correctly, righties over the course of his career have hit .227 off of him. He'll share the set-up role with Rincon.

Bigbie's ceiling is that of a slightly above average OF.

The Orioles, who drafted him in the first round, Steve Stone, who called him a potential batting champion, and many scouts throughout the league disagree with you.

This is from a scouting report at the beginning of his career:

Will probably start the season at Frederick. Look for more power and stolen bases now that Bigbie has a season under his belt. He has unlimited potential.

Larry Bigbie is one of those players how has the tools but has never put it together. It's pretty widely-accpeted that he has great potential. It's unlikely that he will fulfill the huge expectations he once had. However, for 900K, I will take a chance. Kinda like that Patterson fella...

Ricardo Rincon is the only acquisition with a decebt overall track record, and he is years removed from his best numbers.

Lefties have his .217 against him in his career. La Russa loves the match-ups more than anyone, and he'll love having Looper and Rincon in the set-up role.

Encarnacion stinks.

Yep, he does. Bad signing.

No matter how you spin it, this is the worst offseason Walt has had in a long while, even in terms of risk/potential upside signings.

The offseason isn't over.

But, regardless, the core of our team -- Mulder, Carpenter, Rolen, Pujols, Edmonds, Molina, Izzy -- is still there. That's what's most important. I'm not saying the rest of the team doesn't matter, but these guys we signed don't need to be All-Stars. Some of them have to the potential to be very productive, though.

UK1679666180 · December 28, 2005

David Wells is fat and pitched a perfect game.

Good for him, he shows a plus curve and the ability to locate a 90 MPH FB at his own will, something that escaped Ponson.

The ability to pitch while obese is separate than being fat and not being able to pitch, see Ponson.

Zambrano has too much weight for my liking, but he still performs at a very high level.

You're also reading the year-by-year breakdown wrong. Last season he was hurt and with two teams, so it looks like it was two years.

He was also hurt in '04 and had one good year in AZ. If you expect him to perform at league avg. for a 2B, I fail to see how that is high reward. That's league avg. for a 2B.

By all reports, he's quit drinking (which resulted in him being a lard-***) and sees a therapist once a week. Friends say he has lost weight. He admitted the pain he felt when looking into his mother's eyes and recognizing the pain he had caused. By all accounts he's a changed man. You can call me naive for "buying" the story surrounding him, but I think it's at least better than you, who seems to be ignorant on the topic of Ponson.

Sorry, I watched a player eat and drink himself to crap and all of a sudden he's a changed man? Sorry, I'll believe when I see it.

Call me ignorant, that all the reports surrounding him besides friends and family is that he is obese and has no work ethic.

And Ponson is not blocking Reyes. If Ponson works out, Marquis will be traded to strengthen the rest of the team. Luna is not better than the career average Junior Spivey (but he is comparable to Grudz).

How are they going to find out? ST isn't enough time to get an accurate gauge on Reyes and definitely Ponson, who needs a major overhaul.

Few teams makes trade right before the season starts for obvious reasons.

vance_the_cubs_fan · December 28, 2005

To suggest Spivey is anywhere the caliber of player of Castillo is ridiculous.

Castillo:

Career- 293/370/356

05: 301/391/374

04: 291/373/348

03: 314/381/397

Spivey:

Career- 270/354/436

05: 232/315/378

04: 272/359/421

03: 255/326/433

Castillo is also a better defender. I understand your comments about value and risk, but when you buy crap, you're likely to get crap. This offseason, the Cardinals have bought crap.

Surely if I can find someone who'll sell me a 1962 Buick for 25 bucks, it's going to be a bargain if the car runs. On the other hand, if it doesn't run, it's a waste of 25 bucks.

XZero771679666304 · December 28, 2005

If you would seriously take Spivey over Castillo, you are a fool. Junior has had one really good year, one slightly above average year, and has been decidedly mediocre the rest of the time. Castillo is a better hitter, is more patient, strikes out less and is a much better defender. Castillo >>>>>>>>>>> Spivey.

Castillo has zero power. None.

Spivey vs. Castillo is an example of the name attached to the player. If Castillo didn't win Gold Gloves (but was still great with the leather) and if he hadn't had like a 30-game hit streak, no one would think he is as good as he is.

He's the type of player who the media hypes, but who's numbers really don't back it up.

Ponson has a career 4.81 ERA. He has had two good seasons in the middle of an 8 year crap sandwich.
So for Spivey it's his career #s that are most important to look at. For Ponson it's his stats from 3 and 4 seasons ago. Never is it most important to look at what a player did last year.

He had a 5.30 ERA in 2004, and a 6.22 ERA in 2005. Don't you think those skew his career numbers? While it's not OK to dismiss them, the fact the he has had trouble with his life and alcohol undoubtedly had a drastic effect on his numbers.

Miles absolutely stinks.

Fortunately, the Spivey signing almost all-but-assures that Miles will be playing in AAA or on another team.

Looper is just another reliever with one really good season under his belt.

I'll take my chance with his 3.57 ERA; more importantly, his career GB:FB ratio is 2.00, exactly. That's the thing that was most intriguing to Walt, in my opinion.

Also, if I remember correctly, righties over the course of his career have hit .227 off of him. He'll share the set-up role with Rincon.

Bigbie's ceiling is that of a slightly above average OF.

The Orioles, who drafted him in the first round, Steve Stone, who called him a potential batting champion, and many scouts throughout the league disagree with you.

This is from a scouting report at the beginning of his career:
Will probably start the season at Frederick. Look for more power and stolen bases now that Bigbie has a season under his belt. He has unlimited potential.

Larry Bigbie is one of those players how has the tools but has never put it together. It's pretty widely-accpeted that he has great potential. It's unlikely that he will fulfill the huge expectations he once had. However, for 900K, I will take a chance. Kinda like that Patterson fella...

Ricardo Rincon is the only acquisition with a decebt overall track record, and he is years removed from his best numbers.

Lefties have his .217 against him in his career. La Russa loves the match-ups more than anyone, and he'll love having Looper and Rincon in the set-up role.

Encarnacion stinks.

Yep, he does. Bad signing.

No matter how you spin it, this is the worst offseason Walt has had in a long while, even in terms of risk/potential upside signings.

The offseason isn't over.

But, regardless, the core of our team -- Mulder, Carpenter, Rolen, Pujols, Edmonds, Molina, Izzy -- is still there. That's what's most important. I'm not saying the rest of the team doesn't matter, but these guys we signed don't need to be All-Stars. Some of them have to the potential to be very productive, though.

No, Spivey is the type of player the media hypes, and whose numbers don't back it up. Spivey is like a 2B version of Soriano, only not as good. Spivey is inconsistent, and his career numbers are skewed by his one great season. Castillo hits for higher average, and walks more. I'll take the OBP, especially on your team.

As for Ponson, his last 2 years don't skew his numbers as much as the 5.27, 4.71, 4.82, 4.95 and 4.09 ERA's befor his two good years. If anything, his good numbers skew his numbers. Ponson has been bad a whole lot more than he has been good. 5.27, 4.71, 4.82, 4.95, 4.09, 5.30, 6.22 VS. 3.77 and 3.75. What is skeweing what now? You are being Far to kind to Sid.

As for Bigbie, a lot of players have great scouting reports early in his career. More recent scouting reports are far less flattering. From ESPN's 2004 scouting report:

His bat speed and approach to hitting make it difficult for him to get around inside hard stuff. "Bigbie hits much better at the bottom of the order, where there isn't a lot of pressure on him."

"The Orioles have lots of options in the outfield, and that doesn't bode well for Bigbie. Unless he can reduce his strikeouts and generate more power, he's likely to be demoted to the fourth-outfielder role this season"

Apprently his inability to translate that "unlimited potential" is causing some doubt. Apparently the Orioles didn't think to much of his potential, since there apparently was no room for him in an OF of Gibbons, Newhan and Matos.

Edited December 28, 2005 by XZero77

SouthSideRyan · December 28, 2005

Yeah but the most recent scouting report isn't what's most important.

XZero771679666304 · December 28, 2005

Yeah but the most recent scouting report isn't what's most important.

Damn the information that is actually pertenant, huh? :lol:

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

Good for him, he shows a plus curve and the ability to locate a 90 MPH FB at his own will, something that escaped Ponson.

The ability to pitch while obese is separate than being fat and not being able to pitch, see Ponson.

Zambrano has too much weight for my liking, but he still performs at a very high level.

So if obesity and pitching abillity are separate from one another, why did you bring up weight in the first place?

He was also hurt in '04 and had one good year in AZ. If you expect him to perform at league avg. for a 2B, I fail to see how that is high reward. That's league avg. for a 2B.

No, Spivey is the type of player the media hypes, and whose numbers don't back it up. Spivey is like a 2B version of Soriano, only not as good. Spivey is inconsistent, and his career numbers are skewed by his one great season. Castillo hits for higher average, and walks more. I'll take the OBP, especially on your team.

"Good" is arbitrary. His career OPS of .790 is almost 40 points better than the 2005 NL 2B average.

Let me make a comparison, here:

Derrek Lee has a career OPS of .865. NL 1st baseman this season posted an average OPS of .843. Before last season, what had Derrek Lee done that made him such a great player? He had surpassed the NL average in previous seasons, but never by a significant margin.

So what separates Lee from Spivey, in regards to their production from their position? Before his breakout season, Derrek Lee was roughly a league-average 1st baseman, offensively. Without his career year in Arizona, Junior Spivey is a league-average 2nd baseman.

Let's check out some signings this offseason:

- Neifi Perez (.681 career OPS) gets $2.5 million per year

- Abraham Nunez (.640 career OPS) gets $1.7 million per year

- Mark Grudzielanek (.721 career OPS) gets $4 million per year

Do I have to continue? I consider $1.5 million for a career OPS of .790 a bargain. If you argue that, then you're just doing that because Spivey signed with the Cards. Hell, even if you say his one good season skewed his numbers, he's still on par with the average 2nd baseman. Why am I not angry that we're paying $1.5 million for an average 2nd baseman on this market?

Sorry, I watched a player eat and drink himself to crap and all of a sudden he's a changed man? Sorry, I'll believe when I see it.

Call me ignorant, that all the reports surrounding him besides friends and family is that he is obese and has no work ethic.

Jocketty is not the type of GM that makes stupid moves (OK, he did sign Tino Martinez...). Ponson must have done a good acting job if he hasn't turned around his act. I'm not saying that Walt can't make bad moves, but it's extremely hard to believe they he would give Ponson $1 million if he was still the man he was in 2004 and 2005. I could be wrong. I hope I'm not, but yes... I could be wrong.

Ponson did get a DUI, and as a result, he entered drug rehab. He now sees a therapist once a week. He's supposedly cut down his weight. That's the latest information I've heard about it, and until I hear otherwise, the news is more good than bad.

Cardinal management was clearly convinced that he's content on turning it around. Otherwise, it's not likely they would take a flyer on him.

How are they going to find out? ST isn't enough time to get an accurate gauge on Reyes and definitely Ponson, who needs a major overhaul.

Few teams makes trade right before the season starts for obvious reasons.

OK, that's true. But still: the only thing I have seen about Reyes being prevented from entering the rotation was a snippit by RotoWorld. Who knows? If Ponson works out, maybe we'll use him in the rotation, and if he works up through July, we'll trade Marquis? In the meantime, Reyes might pitch out of the 'pen. It's what we did with Dan Haren, and he turned out fine.

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

As for Ponson, his last 2 years don't skew his numbers as much as the 5.27, 4.71, 4.82, 4.95 and 4.09 ERA's befor his two good years. If anything, his good numbers skew his numbers. Ponson has been bad a whole lot more than he has been good. 5.27, 4.71, 4.82, 4.95, 4.09, 5.30, 6.22 VS. 3.77 and 3.75. What is skeweing what now? You are being Far to kind to Sid.

Maybe I am. The chances of him returning to his 2002-2003 days are low. But fortunately, so is his salary.

As for Bigbie, a lot of players have great scouting reports early in his career. More recent scouting reports are far less flattering. From ESPN's 2004 scouting report:

Apprently his inability to translate that "unlimited potential" is causing some doubt. Apparently the Orioles didn't think to much of his potential, since there apparently was no room for him in an OF of Gibbons, Newhan and Matos.

What's the next report on Corey Patterson going to look like? Probably comparable. Does that mean that Patterson doesn't have potential anymore?

Chris Carpenter was drafted in the first round and didn't start reaching his potential until age 29.

CardsFanInChiTown · December 28, 2005

God forbid a team buys low on players.

:lol:

XZero771679666304 · December 28, 2005

Good for him, he shows a plus curve and the ability to locate a 90 MPH FB at his own will, something that escaped Ponson.

The ability to pitch while obese is separate than being fat and not being able to pitch, see Ponson.

Zambrano has too much weight for my liking, but he still performs at a very high level.

So if obesity and pitching abillity are separate from one another, why did you bring up weight in the first place?

He was also hurt in '04 and had one good year in AZ. If you expect him to perform at league avg. for a 2B, I fail to see how that is high reward. That's league avg. for a 2B.
No, Spivey is the type of player the media hypes, and whose numbers don't back it up. Spivey is like a 2B version of Soriano, only not as good. Spivey is inconsistent, and his career numbers are skewed by his one great season. Castillo hits for higher average, and walks more. I'll take the OBP, especially on your team.

"Good" is arbitrary. His career OPS of .790 is almost 40 points better than the 2005 NL 2B average.

Let me make a comparison, here:

Derrek Lee has a career OPS of .865. NL 1st baseman this season posted an average OPS of .843. Before last season, what had Derrek Lee done that made him such a great player? He had surpassed the NL average in previous seasons, but never by a significant margin.

So what separates Lee from Spivey, in regards to their production from their position? Before his breakout season, Derrek Lee was roughly a league-average 1st baseman, offensively. Without his career year in Arizona, Junior Spivey is a league-average 2nd baseman.

Let's check out some signings this offseason:
- Neifi Perez (.681 career OPS) gets $2.5 million per year
- Abraham Nunez (.640 career OPS) gets $1.7 million per year
- Mark Grudzielanek (.721 career OPS) gets $4 million per year

Do I have to continue? I consider $1.5 million for a career OPS of .790 a bargain. If you argue that, then you're just doing that because Spivey signed with the Cards. Hell, even if you say his one good season skewed his numbers, he's still on par with the average 2nd baseman. Why am I not angry that we're paying $1.5 million for an average 2nd baseman on this market?

Sorry, I watched a player eat and drink himself to crap and all of a sudden he's a changed man? Sorry, I'll believe when I see it.

Call me ignorant, that all the reports surrounding him besides friends and family is that he is obese and has no work ethic.

Jocketty is not the type of GM that makes stupid moves (OK, he did sign Tino Martinez...). Ponson must have done a good acting job if he hasn't turned around his act. I'm not saying that Walt can't make bad moves, but it's extremely hard to believe they he would give Ponson $1 million if he was still the man he was in 2004 and 2005. I could be wrong. I hope I'm not, but yes... I could be wrong.

Ponson did get a DUI, and as a result, he entered drug rehab. He now sees a therapist once a week. He's supposedly cut down his weight. That's the latest information I've heard about it, and until I hear otherwise, the news is more good than bad.

Cardinal management was clearly convinced that he's content on turning it around. Otherwise, it's not likely they would take a flyer on him.

How are they going to find out? ST isn't enough time to get an accurate gauge on Reyes and definitely Ponson, who needs a major overhaul.

Few teams makes trade right before the season starts for obvious reasons.

OK, that's true. But still: the only thing I have seen about Reyes being prevented from entering the rotation was a snippit by RotoWorld. Who knows? If Ponson works out, maybe we'll use him in the rotation, and if he works up through July, we'll trade Marquis? In the meantime, Reyes might pitch out of the 'pen. It's what we did with Dan Haren, and he turned out fine.

Spivey is INCONSISTENT. His career OPS is .790, but how many seasons did he have where his OPS was within .005 or better than that? One. One good season out of 5. Castillo's career OPS is .726, and how many seasons was he within .005 of that , or better? Six, and all but one season since he became a regular. Subtract Spivey's best year, and his totals go in the crapper. Subtract Castillo's, and you barely notice.

Add to that Spivey is a walking injury.

As for Lee, his career OPS is .864. His OPS' since he became a regular? .875, .820, .872, .860, .887 and 1.080.

Consitency, gotta love it.

Your comparisons are skewed and inapplicable. Comparing Spivey to Castillo is just silly.

XZero771679666304 · December 28, 2005

God forbid a team buys low on players.

:lol:

My only point is that Walt has done a far better job of it in the past. This group is as bad as ever, with a relatively low ceiling.

CardsFanInChiTown · December 28, 2005

God forbid a team buys low on players.

:lol:

My only point is that Walt has done a far better job of it in the past. This group is as bad as ever, with a relatively low ceiling.

Maybe, my bet is one of those signings works out well enough to make all the others a decent sunk cost. Who knows?

edit - not talking about Encarnacion here

Edited December 28, 2005 by CardsFanInChiTown

ManCrushOnNomar · December 28, 2005

Wow, that red Kool-Aid sure is strong.

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

Spivey is INCONSISTENT. His career OPS is .790, but how many seasons did he have where his OPS was within .005 or better than that? One. One good season out of 5. Castillo's career OPS is .726, and how many seasons was he within .005 of that , or better? Six, and all but one season since he became a regular. Subtract Spivey's best year, and his totals go in the crapper. Subtract Castillo's, and you barely notice.

So his career OPS is below 2B average, but that's OK 'cause he does it consistently?

As for Lee, his career OPS is .864. His OPS' since he became a regular? .875, .820, .872, .860, .887 and 1.080.

Your comparisons are skewed and inapplicable. Comparing Spivey to Castillo is just silly.

So what you're telling me is that besides last year's anamoly (since good players stay very consistent to their "normal" self), Derrek Lee is only a slightly above-average offensive 1st baseman?

Or does the Lee season count, but the Spivey season not?

Let me quote myself in this topic:

In 2004, his OPS was .780. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.
In 2003, his OPS was .759. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.
In 2002, his OPS was .865. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.
In 2001, his OPS was .777. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.

Let's check out some signings this offseason:
- Neifi Perez (.681 career OPS) gets $2.5 million per year
- Abraham Nunez (.640 career OPS) gets $1.7 million per year
- Mark Grudzielanek (.721 career OPS) gets $4 million per year

Directly refute Junior Spivey signing for $1.5 million team that had a huge question mark at 2nd base, given the market and his history.

Mark_R · December 28, 2005

Is someone legitimately using Bigbie's scouting report from when he was drafted as pertinent information?

Wow.

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

Is someone legitimately using Bigbie's scouting report from when he was drafted as pertinent information?

Wow.

You're right. It was dumb.

Josh Hamilton had a good scouting report, too.

I still regard Bigbie has an outfielder with great potential, though.

Mark_R · December 28, 2005

So what you're telling me is that besides last year's anamoly (since good players stay very consistent to their "normal" self), Derrek Lee is only a slightly above-average offensive 1st baseman?

Or does the Lee season count, but the Spivey season not?

Would this be your argument if Derrek Lee played for the Cardinals and had come off an OPS season over 1 and The Cubs had the crappy Junior Spivey who is three years removed from his one good season?

Somehow, I doubt it.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Mark_R

Mark_R · December 28, 2005

What are your thoughts on Corey Patterson?

vance_the_cubs_fan · December 28, 2005

Spivey is INCONSISTENT. His career OPS is .790, but how many seasons did he have where his OPS was within .005 or better than that? One. One good season out of 5. Castillo's career OPS is .726, and how many seasons was he within .005 of that , or better? Six, and all but one season since he became a regular. Subtract Spivey's best year, and his totals go in the crapper. Subtract Castillo's, and you barely notice.

So his career OPS is below 2B average, but that's OK 'cause he does it consistently?

As for Lee, his career OPS is .864. His OPS' since he became a regular? .875, .820, .872, .860, .887 and 1.080.

Your comparisons are skewed and inapplicable. Comparing Spivey to Castillo is just silly.

So what you're telling me is that besides last year's anamoly (since good players stay very consistent to their "normal" self), Derrek Lee is only a slightly above-average offensive 1st baseman?

Or does the Lee season count, but the Spivey season not?

Let me quote myself in this topic:

In 2004, his OPS was .780. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.
In 2003, his OPS was .759. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.
In 2002, his OPS was .865. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.
In 2001, his OPS was .777. Higher than the .752 OPS that NL 2nd basemen averaged in 2005.

Let's check out some signings this offseason:
- Neifi Perez (.681 career OPS) gets $2.5 million per year
- Abraham Nunez (.640 career OPS) gets $1.7 million per year
- Mark Grudzielanek (.721 career OPS) gets $4 million per year

Directly refute Junior Spivey signing for $1.5 million team that had a huge question mark at 2nd base, given the market and his history.

A big difference with Lee and Spivey has to do with their most recent performance.

Spivey's most recent performance is atrocious. Lee's most recent performance isn't. I think what a player did last season is more relevant than what they did in 2002.

But since career numbers are most important, I guess you're expecting Sosa to have a rebound year as well....or would that only happen if he signed with the Cards?

Geeze!

CardsFanInChiTown · December 28, 2005

Jocketty does this every year - he signs a bunch of "buy low" guys to see what sticks then when a player works out it's just pesky Cardinal luck.

:wink:

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

Would this be your argument if Derrek Lee played for the Cardinals and had come off an OPS season over 1 and The Cubs had the crappy Junior Spivey who is three years removed from his one good season?

Somehow, I doubt it.

I openly admit that Juan Encarnacion sucks, and we just signed him.

I'll tell you that Scott Rolen will never do what he did in 2004.

Chris Carpenter won't even have a season like 2005 again.

A big difference with Lee and Spivey has to do with their most recent performance.

Spivey's most recent performance is atrocious. Lee's most recent performance isn't. I think what a player did last season is more relevant than what they did in 2002.

But since career numbers are most important, I guess you're expecting Sosa to have a rebound year as well....or would that only happen if he signed with the Cards?

Geeze!

If you only take one, injury-filled year into consideration... then yes, he does suck.

But I'm not going to let a career of above-average play go unconsidered because on one bad year. If he didn't suck last year, he wouldn't be in St. Louis. In case you haven't noticed, we buy low in hopes of a big return. I don't know how hard that is to understand. It sometimes is hard to justify a signing, but that's the way this "system" works.

What are your thoughts on Corey Patterson?

Well the most of Corey Patterson I saw was when he played St. Louis, and put up an OPS of .871.

But seriously, he's got everything. Power, speed... he can play defense. Corey Patterson has the tools to succeed. However, it's pretty evident that he's overstayed his welcome in Chicago, and it would be best for both him and the team to find him a new home; the Cubs and Patterson isn't going to work out. There's a chance he could go elsewhere and become successful, but it's all about potential... which he has a lot of. Maybe he's like a less extreme version of Ankiel? I don't know. (Basically I'm suggesting that Patterson may convert into a pitcher. I'm joking!)

A change of scenery often does a player good... I think the same applies to Corey.

wolf stansson · December 28, 2005

I have three things to say and three things only (4 if you count the previous statement).

1 - Juan Encarnacion is not very good. It was, in my eyes, a bad signing. As bad of a signing as JJ for the Cubs.

2 - Junior Spivey is not as good as Castillo. His career year was better than what Castillo can do, but I have no reason to believe he'll repeat it ever again. I'd love it if he did.

3 - I am 99.9% sure PieOnMyHands is K-Town.

PieOnMyHands · December 28, 2005

1 - Juan Encarnacion is not very good. It was, in my eyes, a bad signing. As bad of a signing as JJ for the Cubs.

Encarnacion was probably worse, 'cause at least Jones can platoon when they find out how bad he is. Encarnacion will just be bad and we'll be forced to play.

2 - Junior Spivey is not as good as Castillo. His career year was better than what Castillo can do, but I have no reason to believe he'll repeat it ever again. I'd love it if he did.

Regardless of what his career year was, he has still had above-average seasons in regards to the average second baseman.

Oh, and, Spivey at $1.5 million or Castillo at $5+ million? Yeah, Spivey (when healthy) is better.

Face it: Castillo is overrated. He has speed, defense, and can swipe a base... no, his OPS doesn't do that justice. He's not the player people make him out to be, though.

3 - I am 99.9% sure PieOnMyHands is K-Town.

I'm not.

I'd guess that K-Town was a Cardinal troll or something. If you think I'm trolling, you're sorely mistaken. I've used logic and statistics to back up all of my arguments. If you choose to disagree that's one thing, but to call me a troll because you disagree is just asinine. Flat out asinine.

Cards Sign Juan Encarnacion

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