Pierre addition is huge

[AramisRamirez]

i hear alot of hate about pierre and true his fielding is far from great, but he was a key piece to a world series. in a down year for him he still had 40+ SB and hit .276 or something. he has put together some great years, inluding his amazing .371 OBP year. he also stole 60+ SB at one point.

 

anyways i think he's a HUGE upgrade on patterson. pierre is a legit leadoff hitter. i think he's taken too bad a rap on this board. im happy about adding him to the top of the order.

 

i think one more decent OF like milton bradley away from being able to compete. it appears like it will be done in such a manner where our payroll wont be affected.

 

maybe we can redirect some of the furcal money towards Millwood. i think once we bring in bradley we're set on offense. im content with cedeno and murton getting the starting nob opening day.

 

i like us 1-6 with pierre, walker, lee, aramis, bradley, and barrett. that takes pressure off cedeno and murton in the 7th and 8th hole. i hope walker isnt included in the bradley trade because the dodgers are set with middle infielders.

 

but we need to think about rotation in the upcoming years and Wood isnt likely to be here after another season pitching 140 innings. So why not throw money at Millwood to join zambrano and prior? maddux will come off the books after this year too. i might take $50M/4-years to get Millwood, but whats the problem? we pay wood nearly that much to pitch 140 innings...

 

my 2006 cubbies:

 

CF pierre

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF bradley

LF murton

SS cedeno

 

SP1 zambrano

SP2 prior

SP3 millwood

SP4 maddux

SP5 rusch

 

Injured: Woody

[RyCubsFan]

I just don't buy into the concept of a "legit leadoff hitter."

 

Give me players with high OBP and high slugging throughout the lineup, especially in the leadoff position, the position which sees the most plate appearances. I could care less whether they are fast.

 

Todd Walker would be a much better leadoff hitter than Juan Pierre. He's a better offensive player. He gets on base just as much (last year much more), he doesn't get thrown out trying to steel (cause he doesn't attempt it), and he hits for much more power.

 

And we gave up 3 young pitchers with promise to downgrade in the leadoff slot.

 

Why is it okay that Pierre has no power? Its as if people see it as a plus, because it makes him a "true" leadoff hitter.

[BigbadB]

I just don't buy into the concept of a "legit leadoff hitter."

 

Give me players with high OBP and high slugging throughout the lineup, especially in the leadoff position, the position which sees the most plate appearances. I could care less whether they are fast.

 

Todd Walker would be a much better leadoff hitter than Juan Pierre. He's a better offensive player. He gets on base just as much (last year much more), he doesn't get thrown out trying to steel (cause he doesn't attempt it), and he hits for much more power.

 

And we gave up 3 young pitchers with promise to downgrade in the leadoff slot.

 

Why is it okay that Pierre has no power? Its as if people see it as a plus, because it makes him a "true" leadoff hitter.

 

I agree with everything you said, except the part about Pierre being a downgrade at lead off. Walker never hit lead off last year for Dusty, so it can't be assumed that Walker would have batted lead off. If Neifi is Dusty's back up option to lead off, then Pierre is a significant upgrade to lead off.

 

If it's Wilkerson or Bradley, then it's basically a trade off rather than an upgrade, or potentially a downgrade if Bradley provide equal OBP, yet more power.

 

Considering the OBP of the Cubs as a whole in 2005 from the lead off spot, Pierre is definitely a significant upgrade at that spot. He's not the guy I would have targeted for lead off, but he's still significant nonetheless.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

if neifi doesn't hit in the 2 hole, this could work out well. *prays*

[sonofsamiam]

I actually think there is some value to speed. And if Pierre can get his OBP up to past heights, I think he's probably more valuable, overall, than Walker. That is certainly a big if.

 

I do think Walker is good as gone, however. Does anyone know if Cedeno is capable of playing 2B? A middle infield of Lugo and Cedeno would make me feel all warm & fuzzy. (The specter of Perez taking over 2B most certainly does not, of course.)

 

And give me either Huff or Wilkerson over Bradley, any day. I think it's ironic that people that complain about Wood's injuries want Bradley on the team. His career high for games is 141, followed by 101. Wood's played far more full seasons than Bradley has, and they're nearly the same age.

[littlebilly3]

If nothing else, he should be fun to watch (Pierre)

[CubsLadyinSTL]

I havent been here for a couple days but I am shocked at the reactions of this board. I am thrilled with the addition of Pierre and think with the addition of Bradley we will be a team that can start talking contention again. I absolutely think Pierre will be effective and mesh well with the team. I can also scratch one of my Christmas wishes off the list.

 

Does anyone know how serious the talks are with Bradley? I know I read Dusty and him met the other day and it went really well, but how have they progressed??

[goonys evil twin]

I havent been here for a couple days but I am shocked at the reactions of this board.

 

Anti Pierre people have been anti Pierre for a very long time though. This isn't a case of just dissing a Hendry move for the fun of it.

[Drew Doughty]

I havent been here for a couple days but I am shocked at the reactions of this board. I am thrilled with the addition of Pierre and think with the addition of Bradley we will be a team that can start talking contention again. I absolutely think Pierre will be effective and mesh well with the team. I can also scratch one of my Christmas wishes off the list.

 

Does anyone know how serious the talks are with Bradley? I know I read Dusty and him met the other day and it went really well, but how have they progressed??

 

according to some reports, we're the front runners. I don't know if those reports were pre or post pierre trade though.

[AramisRamirez]

wow yeah without question, juan pierre is an upgrade at leadoff for us. to me, walker is the perfect 2-hole hitter because he has such high OBP. he's not speedy like a leadoff hitter and he has better power than true leadoff hitters like posednik, pierre, etc so to me he's an ideal 2-hole hitter. who better to put in front of derrek lee than a guy who is likely to be on-base?

 

you got pierre threatening second dictating the pitches to walker, who is a tough at-bat. im sold with those two guys hitting 1-2. looking at pierre's stats. he has had pretty incredible numbers. his one down year was still pretty good.

 

yes, numbers dont show how crappy his defense is...yadadada. meanwhile, he has a world series ring. ill take one single world series ring at any point. you cant argue with juan pierre's ring. his defense somehow didnt manage to stop the marlins from winning it all.

 

some people on this board think all the prospects in our farm system are the best and completely untouchable and if anybody gets traded hendry blows. well, im in the hendry blows department but bringing in pierre is good to me. no pie, no hill, all the top top ones stay.

 

im looking forward to this season, as opposed to watching neifi perez bat leadoff. now if we can bring in bradley so burnitz can stay as far away from illinois as possible ill truely be at ease.

 

man, im getting hyped for this year already.

[Mad Dog 2020]

Pierre is an excellent pickup and a great lead off hitter. I understand Walker is probably a slightly better hitter, but speed means a lot in a leadoff hitter, even if they don't steal bases. With Walker batting #1, it would clog up the bases. He would be a good #2, or even Matt Murton could serve as a #2 (pretty good speed, patient, fundamentally sound, contact hitter). I feel like we're already a better team than we were last year, and with Bradley in RF we'll be better.

[Careless]

:shock: dusty joined the board?

[JC]

:shock: dusty joined the board?

 

Wow. Clog the bases? Wow.

[mjohnson71]

I havent been here for a couple days but I am shocked at the reactions of this board. I am thrilled with the addition of Pierre and think with the addition of Bradley we will be a team that can start talking contention again. I absolutely think Pierre will be effective and mesh well with the team. I can also scratch one of my Christmas wishes off the list.

 

Does anyone know how serious the talks are with Bradley? I know I read Dusty and him met the other day and it went really well, but how have they progressed??

 

I agree; I'm also shocked with the number of anti-Pierre posts on this board. Kind of dishartening when people are so negative when the Cubs make a move forward.

[JC]

I havent been here for a couple days but I am shocked at the reactions of this board. I am thrilled with the addition of Pierre and think with the addition of Bradley we will be a team that can start talking contention again. I absolutely think Pierre will be effective and mesh well with the team. I can also scratch one of my Christmas wishes off the list.

 

Does anyone know how serious the talks are with Bradley? I know I read Dusty and him met the other day and it went really well, but how have they progressed??

 

I agree; I'm also shocked with the number of anti-Pierre posts on this board. Kind of dishartening when people are so negative when the Cubs make a move forward.

 

Maybe, just maybe, "a move forward" is subjective and not everyone sees this as a move in a positive direction. As with any post, if a criticism of Pierre lacks simpy an effort to bash with providing reasoning, that is one thing. Otherwise, lamenting the fact that posters are sharing their opinion, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, is akin to supporting censorship.

[USSoccer]

:shock: dusty joined the board?

 

If he thought the media was hard on him, wait until April :P

[Chris]

:shock: dusty joined the board?

 

Wow. Clog the bases? Wow.

 

ha ha

[rwed1]

Man i hope walk isnt as good as gone. now that would be terrible! I think Pierre is huge and is what this team needs! Furcal was way overpriced! i would rather pierre in center and cedeno at ss!! man am i excited now, great christmas present!!

[Warpticon]

wow yeah without question, juan pierre is an upgrade at leadoff for us. to me, walker is the perfect 2-hole hitter because he has such high OBP. he's not speedy like a leadoff hitter and he has better power than true leadoff hitters like posednik, pierre, etc so to me he's an ideal 2-hole hitter. who better to put in front of derrek lee than a guy who is likely to be on-base?

 

Can you explain why a lack of power is somehow desirable in a "true" leadoff hitter? Because it sure looks like that's what you're saying. Also, how does more power disqualify someone from being a leadoff candidate?

 

you got pierre threatening second dictating the pitches to walker, who is a tough at-bat. im sold with those two guys hitting 1-2. looking at pierre's stats. he has had pretty incredible numbers. his one down year was still pretty good.

 

If Pierre isn't running himself into a ton of outs, it could be pretty good. If he has another year like last year, it could be pretty ugly.

 

yes, numbers dont show how crappy his defense is...yadadada. meanwhile, he has a world series ring. ill take one single world series ring at any point. you cant argue with juan pierre's ring. his defense somehow didnt manage to stop the marlins from winning it all.

 

So because they won in spite of his defense, the same thing is suppoesd to happen to us? How are his defensive deficiencies in any way dismissable? That's part of who he is, and what constitutes his value as a player. (yay, incomplete thoughts!)

 

No, you can't argue with his ring--it probably won't say much back. Do you realize that Lenny Harris also got a ring that year? Do you want to trade for him?

 

I don't mind Pierre, but I don't see him as anything special. He's an extremely one-dimensional player who can be useful if he's on a roll in that one dimension. If he's not, he's a detriment. I don't like giving up three decent young arms, especially two lefties, for a one year rental of a player who isn't special.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Warpticon

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't mind Pierre, but I don't see him as anything special. He's an extremely one-dimensional player who can be useful if he's on a roll in that one dimension. If he's not, he's a detriment. I don't like giving up three decent young arms, especially two lefties, for a one year rental of a player who isn't special.

 

Well said. Nitpick- Only Pinto is LHP, Nolasco and Mitre are RHP.

[Warpticon]

"Clogged bases" is a good thing. It means people didn't get out. It means more people have a chance to score. Getting to second on a double or third on a triple or actually SCORING on a home run is a lot more valuable than a seeing eye single and a stolen base, especially considering the frequency with which Pierre gets caught. But hey, getting caught unclogs the bases, doesn't it?

[Warpticon]

I don't mind Pierre, but I don't see him as anything special. He's an extremely one-dimensional player who can be useful if he's on a roll in that one dimension. If he's not, he's a detriment. I don't like giving up three decent young arms, especially two lefties, for a one year rental of a player who isn't special.

 

Well said. Nitpick- Only Pinto is LHP, Nolasco and Mitre are RHP.

 

I don't know why I thought Nolasco was a lefty. Oh, well.

[10man]

Lets face it, the Cubs probably wouldn't have much roster space for those 3 arms anyway when (and IF) they become major league ready. Hendry was dealing from surplus, but i do concede that he could've gotten a little bit more than Juan Pierre for what he gave up. The only thing is those other options probably werent available at this particular moment.

[TenzilKem]

I understand and agree with those who say that OBP, not speed, is the most important quality in a leadoff hitter.

 

However, Dusty doesn't, and he's the manager.

 

The trade for Pierre prevents Dusty from sabatoging the offense by batting the worst possible candidate (i.e. Perez or Patterson) in the leadoff spot.

 

So I guess I'm happy with the trade because it helps prevent our manager from making some poor lineup decisions. But of course I'm unhappy we still have a manager who makes so many poor lineup decisions.

 

And, as one poster already noted, there is a good chance that Dusty will frequently have the worst possible choice (Perez, who is likely to be the starting SS despite whatever Hendry says about Cedeno in the offseason) in the 2 spot.

 

I don't think Pierre's contract status is that much of a problem. The Cubs have the financial resources to retain his services next year if that's what they want, but if Pie is impressive in AAA the Cubs can let Pierre walk.

[NCCubFan]

Do you realize that Lenny Harris also got a ring that year? Do you want to trade for him?

Sure, why not. Zambrano and Prior for Harris sound good to me. :lol: