Cubs Acquire Juan Pierre

[YearofDaCubs]

Who's to say we don't sign Pierre again and then move him over to RF or LF next year when Pie comes up?

 

Because that would be really stupid. You don't put a guy with a throwing arm that rivals Jonny Damon's in RF. Pierre can't slug, can't throw. His value comes from playing CF.

 

Except for the throwing part, isn't that the Scott Podsednick story that the Cubs are trying so hard to emulate?

 

Pods has a horrible arm as well.

I have always liked Podz and maybe that's one reason why I don't mind having Pierre here.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I haven't read every post in the thread, so if this is old info, pardon me...

 

Carrie Muskat updated the Cubs.com article to state that ESPN.com is reporting that Sergio Mitre is included in the deal, and I now find no mention of the Cubs getting a prospect.

 

So it's looking like the ESPN report is probably the accurate one.

 

dang it, Muskat.

[delroy lindo]

could the Cubs have done better? who knows. we don't know what is going on during these various meetings and have no idea what the barriers are to all of the different transactions.

 

go ahead and state your opinion, but please try to stop presenting your opinions as fact, and then trying to prove your point with facts that are either speculative or selective and incomplete.

 

You mean they aren't bellhopping at the Dallas Wyndham Hotel eavesdropping on conversations between baseball personnel?

[Dr. Cub]

Can we apply the formula used by Diffusion to "equalize" Wilk's OBP too? He has a 55% success rate. Last year he attepted 18 steals, and was successful 8 times. I would be interested to see what his poor success rate does to his numbers. Here are the numbers for Wilk:

 

SB/CS

 

01: 2/1

02: 7/8

03: 13/10

04: 13/6

05: 8/10

 

It would seem as though his OBP would drop (not nearly as much as Pierre), but his SLG would not be helped as much as Pierres'.

[neely crenshaw]

-we needed to upgrade our outfield and lead off spots, we did that. at least we finally addressed something. after losing out on furcal-what would be a better option? damon(who i really like but) for 5 years or pierre. sorry but we needed something and there simple are not many options out there. we can nt waste another year with corey or neifi leading off. cedeno or murton would be as much a reach as corey was.

maybe he dives again but i can live with trying something to get better and failing, rather than rubbing two sticks together and hope lightning strikes!

[Chris]

Just curious - didn't we have Vince Coleman helping out in spring training last year? If it wasn't him, I could have sworn we had a former basestealer in camp for awhile coaching.

 

Pierre is only 28 and he certainly has the speed - any chance he can learn enough about basestealing to cut his CS down to a minimum?

 

In response to us having Coleman, yes, he did help out in spring training last year - and I thought he helps us out in the minors as well.

 

Yes, he's a roving minor league instructor.

[Billy_Buck]

Don't have time to read all the posts, but for those counting up the yeas and nays: I vote in favor.

 

There were others I coveted more: Wilkerson, Furcal, Kenny Lofton (mid-90s version), Rickey Henderson (the Oakland years), etc. If it's 3-for-Pierre, the price is admittedly steep, and I pray that the org is convinced the guys we're sending had little chance of producing for the big club. But supply and demand dictates the price...

 

So why the demand? I like saber-strategy as much as the next guy, but it's advisable to have a multi-faceted offense. Every opponent has a weakness, and against those with weak-to-average throwing catchers, we have a weapon. I also *think* he'll get on at a .360+ clip out of the leadoff spot -- not outlandish, but the pool of such guys is limited. (Ideally it would have turned out to be Cpatt -- long-term, hope it's Pie.)

 

So, all in all, I think it's a positive move. Hope it's a step towards more consistent offense. Lots of legit pro and con in this thread, though. I don't discount the discounters. :wink:

[Cubzfan64]

Just curious - didn't we have Vince Coleman helping out in spring training last year? If it wasn't him, I could have sworn we had a former basestealer in camp for awhile coaching.

 

Pierre is only 28 and he certainly has the speed - any chance he can learn enough about basestealing to cut his CS down to a minimum?

 

In response to us having Coleman, yes, he did help out in spring training last year - and I thought he helps us out in the minors as well.

 

Yes, he's a roving minor league instructor.

 

Well, it would be awfully nice if he "rove" to spring training and spent alot of time with Pierre working on reading pitchers and getting good jumps.

 

I'm a pessimist by nature, but I take heart in the fact that I personally think we have a better person leading off and playing CF in 2006 than we did in 2005.

 

I want to see more puzzle holes filled though!

[stitchface]

Wouldn't you want to bat a Lefty #2 to take advantage of Pierre being held on? Or maybe we should put Lee there since the pitcher will be so distracted.

[Jehrico]

Can we apply the formula used by Diffusion to "equalize" Wilk's OBP too? He has a 55% success rate. Last year he attepted 18 steals, and was successful 8 times. I would be interested to see what his poor success rate does to his numbers. Here are the numbers for Wilk:

 

SB/CS

 

01: 2/1

02: 7/8

03: 13/10

04: 13/6

05: 8/10

 

It would seem as though his OBP would drop (not nearly as much as Pierre), but his SLG would not be helped as much as Pierres'.

 

With Pierre, you know most of his attempts are actualy SB attempts. Frank Robinson is an old school manager who loves the hit and run. I wonder how many of his CS were actually failed hit and runs and not SBs. Probably a considerably higher percentage than Pierre's.

[Radar3454]

So now both Chicago teams have 2 of the fastest players in MLB. I like this move the only knock on Pierre as far as I'm concerned is his weak arm in CF.

 

I think Patterson is faster than either of them but doesn't use his speed as well.

 

I am kinda of lukewarm on this trade - I don't mind who we gave up but I wish we had traded for Bradley, Wilkerson, or Rios instead. Pierre is a significant upgrade over what we had last year and hopefully he will rebound in a contract year and his trend of playing well in day games will continue. My hope he is our pest ala Eckstein for the Cards.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I just realized I may need to apologize for all those things I said to Pierre last June when I was sitting in the front row of the bleachers.

 

Juan, if you're reading this, I really don't think all those things about your mother...and I really don't thing you and Miggy actually do those things we suggested. :oops:

 

Haha, I don't think I'll ever forget chanting that that night. What a great game.

 

I feel compeled to add that while Vance and Mizzou were busy hurling mean-spirited and hurtful insults at Mr. Pierre, I was notably absent; having retreated to the back row of the bleachers to indulge my tobacco addiction.

 

:angel:

 

Now, if anybody would be interesting in purchasing some land for development in South Florida, just PM me.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I just realized I may need to apologize for all those things I said to Pierre last June when I was sitting in the front row of the bleachers.

 

Juan, if you're reading this, I really don't think all those things about your mother...and I really don't thing you and Miggy actually do those things we suggested. :oops:

 

Haha, I don't think I'll ever forget chanting that that night. What a great game.

 

I feel compeled to add that while Vance and Mizzou were busy hurling mean-spirited and hurtful insults at Mr. Pierre, I was notably absent; having retreated to the back row of the bleachers to indulge my tobacco addiction.

 

:angel:

 

Now, if anybody would be interesting in purchasing some land for development in South Florida, just PM me.

 

If you remember our discussion that night, Fred...it looks like we now have the "one-trick pony."

[Magnetic Curses]

So now both Chicago teams have 2 of the fastest players in MLB. I like this move the only knock on Pierre as far as I'm concerned is his weak arm in CF.

 

are you forgetting his poor baserunning ability and inability to hit for extra bases?

 

there are plenty of knocks on pierre.

[YearofDaCubs]

So now both Chicago teams have 2 of the fastest players in MLB. I like this move the only knock on Pierre as far as I'm concerned is his weak arm in CF.

 

I think Patterson is faster than either of them but doesn't use his speed as well.

 

I am kinda of lukewarm on this trade - I don't mind who we gave up but I wish we had traded for Bradley, Wilkerson, or Rios instead. Pierre is a significant upgrade over what we had last year and hopefully he will rebound in a contract year and his trend of playing well in day games will continue. My hope he is our pest ala Eckstein for the Cards.

Totally agree with you. I would have preferred Wilkerson or Bradley in CF but now that the deed is done and we overpaid I'm still ok having Pierre here but we do have to improve other positions to offset some of his deficiencies.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This sucks.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I just realized I may need to apologize for all those things I said to Pierre last June when I was sitting in the front row of the bleachers.

 

Juan, if you're reading this, I really don't think all those things about your mother...and I really don't thing you and Miggy actually do those things we suggested. :oops:

 

Haha, I don't think I'll ever forget chanting that that night. What a great game.

 

I feel compeled to add that while Vance and Mizzou were busy hurling mean-spirited and hurtful insults at Mr. Pierre, I was notably absent; having retreated to the back row of the bleachers to indulge my tobacco addiction.

 

:angel:

 

Now, if anybody would be interesting in purchasing some land for development in South Florida, just PM me.

 

If you remember our discussion that night, Fred...it looks like we now have the "one-trick pony."

 

Indeed.

 

04/04 - 10/02      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
CUBS '05 leadoff  690   83  168   33    2   13  244   55   44   96  0.243  0.297  0.354  0.650
Patterson         451   47   97   15    3   13  157   33   23  117  0.215  0.254  0.348  0.602
Pierre            656   96  181   19   13    2  232   47   41   45  0.276  0.326  0.354  0.680

 

And a career average year from Pierre will raise our team OBP from .324 (11th) to .330 (league average). Now, let's go out and get that stud right fielder everybody's been talking about.

[Jon]

If what's currently being reported (3 for 1) is true, the Marlins sure look to be getting a very good deal. Hopefully there will be room in the rotation for Mitre. Pretty disappointed with this deal as it stands now.

 

But hey. Maybe the Cubs will win the World Series in 2006 and Pierre will get waaaay too much credit for the success of a struggling offense like Podsednik did.

[CubinNY]

 

If you remember our discussion that night, Fred...it looks like we now have the "one-trick pony."

 

Indeed.

 

And a career average year from Pierre will raise our team OBP from .324 (11th) to .330 (league average). Now, let's go out and get that stud right fielder everybody's been talking about.

 

Double Indeed

[treebird]

This sucks.

[Magnetic Curses]

This sucks.

 

seconded.

[da bears]

Sorry, I don't feel like reading through all the pages, but what now with Patterson? If we get Bradley, he obviously moves to RF, so are we still going after him? What are we doing about shortstop?

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Who's to say we don't sign Pierre again and then move him over to RF or LF next year when Pie comes up?

 

Because that would be really stupid. You don't put a guy with a throwing arm that rivals Jonny Damon's in RF. Pierre can't slug, can't throw. His value comes from playing CF.

 

Except for the throwing part, isn't that the Scott Podsednick story that the Cubs are trying so hard to emulate?

 

Pods has a horrible arm as well.

 

C.Lee> Posednick

 

I don't care that the WS won it all, the Brewers won that deal hands down.

 

Imagine how irrate this board would be if the Cubs were on the side receiving Pods & giving up C.Lee.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

So now both Chicago teams have 2 of the fastest players in MLB. I like this move the only knock on Pierre as far as I'm concerned is his weak arm in CF.

 

I think Patterson is faster than either of them but doesn't use his speed as well.

 

I am kinda of lukewarm on this trade - I don't mind who we gave up but I wish we had traded for Bradley, Wilkerson, or Rios instead. Pierre is a significant upgrade over what we had last year and hopefully he will rebound in a contract year and his trend of playing well in day games will continue. My hope he is our pest ala Eckstein for the Cards.

 

Nice to see some optimism & realism from a poster on this board. It's a nice change. GJ!

[BigbadB]

AHAHAHA AHAHAHA

 

Royals are offering Mike Sweeney to the Anaheim Angels for Casey Kotchman and Brandon Wood.

 

Even we couldn't come up with something so lopsided. :D