Would you be satisfied adding Lugo, Wilkerson and Huff?

[badger1679666666]

Lugo Wilkerson and Huff would be nice additions, especially now after losing out on Giles and Furcal.....I just wanted the Cubs to be aggressive and drive the Market to get the "Top" players...

 

BTWWhat are Huffs numbers compared to Burnitz last year? Pretty close?

 

I was working in Jacksonville last summer and watched a lot of D-ray games over dinner.....Nobody impressed me on that team....

 

I would be very happy with Lugo, Wilkerson and Huff. Lugo is not as dynamic as Furcal, but a more solid all around player. Wilkerson would be nice in centerfield and in the 2 hole while huff would be okay in right and batting 6 or 7.

 

My only fear is the D Rays are going to be asking way too much for Lugo and Huff.

 

yea Huff had a Burnitz-type year, but he's got more upside I believe, not as old as Burny. Not as good defensivly, but better offensive upside, but of the three listed he's the one I want least.

 

I'm really high on Lugo and Wilkerson.

[bannor10]

OK...Spend the money on Furcal use the prospects you saved by not tading for Lugo and ship them to the Phillies for Pat "the bat"or another team to get an outfielder...

 

If the cubs have a leadoff hitter and a RF who could give you big productions you could keep Patterson and wait to see if he could still develop, hitting 7th of coarse...

 

Do you work for the Tribune company?..... Listen, Lugo might be fine but at what cost in younger players? And he is still making a lot of money..Do they want EPAtt? Why are you worried about cost anyway...It has been mentioned that before FA started the Cubs had 30mil to spend...I don't see how they are going to be able to spend this money even after they overpayed for the relief pitchers....There were a couple of impact players availiable in free agency and the Cubs didn't get any of them....They dropped they ball on the secondbaseman from the marlins and now they are in sramble mode......Remember the only world series you can win is the one in 2006.........

I'm not pessimistic like you are. How are those 3 players added to Lee and Aram a bad offense? Answer me that. And how is Furcal SO much better than Lugo?

 

Furcal is better but not much. When you add in the fact that Furcal makes about 8 million more than Lugo will, Lugo is the better player for the money. Enough said.

Lugo G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2003 TB 117 433 58 119 13 4 15 53 35 88 10 3 .275 .333 .427 .760

2004 TB 157 581 83 160 41 4 7 75 54 106 21 5 .275 .338 .396 .734

2005 TB 158 616 89 182 36 6 6 57 61 72 39 11 .295 .362 .403 .765

 

Furcal G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2003 Atl 156 664 130 194 35 10 15 61 60 76 25 2 .292 .352 .443 .795

2004 Atl 143 563 103 157 24 5 14 59 58 71 29 6 .279 .344 .414 .758

2005 Atl 154 616 100 175 31 11 12 58 62 78 46 10 .284 .348 .429 .777

 

From what I gather you are saying that Giles and Furcal were the only two players we could have gotten to help our team. If you save money by not signing Furcal and getting a SS close to the same caliber for 8 mil less you then have 8 mil more to spend on the rest of the team. This would then mean you can make your team even better.

[bannor10]

What were Wilkersons stats last year. I don't recall that he had a great year...Darn fire wall at work....

[badger1679666666]

Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2003 MON 146 504 78 135 34 4 19 77 89 155 13 10 .268 .380 .464 .844

2004 MON 160 572 112 146 39 2 32 67 106 152 13 6 .255 .374 .498 .872

2005 WAS 148 565 76 140 42 7 11 57 84 147 8 10 .248 .351 .405 .756

 

Seems there might be a park effect playing in RFK. I like his OBP and his +.800 OPS. At wrigley I would assume the numbers would return to

 

.260/.360/.480/.840

[bannor10]

Can that be right...147 ks and a .248 avg....throw in a couple of trips on dl and he would fit right in with the rest of the Cubs...

 

 

Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2003 MON 146 504 78 135 34 4 19 77 89 155 13 10 .268 .380 .464 .844

2004 MON 160 572 112 146 39 2 32 67 106 152 13 6 .255 .374 .498 .872

2005 WAS 148 565 76 140 42 7 11 57 84 147 8 10 .248 .351 .405 .756

 

Seems there might be a park effect playing in RFK. I like his OBP and his +.800 OPS. At wrigley I would assume the numbers would return to

 

.260/.360/.480/.840

[badger1679666666]

Can that be right...147 ks and a .248 avg....throw in a couple of trips on dl and he would fit right in with the rest of the Cubs...

 

 

Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2003 MON 146 504 78 135 34 4 19 77 89 155 13 10 .268 .380 .464 .844

2004 MON 160 572 112 146 39 2 32 67 106 152 13 6 .255 .374 .498 .872

2005 WAS 148 565 76 140 42 7 11 57 84 147 8 10 .248 .351 .405 .756

 

Seems there might be a park effect playing in RFK. I like his OBP and his +.800 OPS. At wrigley I would assume the numbers would return to

 

.260/.360/.480/.840

 

No because he walks. Alot. He's had over a 100 BB's in a year. That doesn't happen with this team. I don't care how much he K's if he leads off and gets on bace at a .360-.380 clip that's ALOT more RBI chances for Lee and Ramirez.

[bannor10]

True, maybe he had an off year.

Can that be right...147 ks and a .248 avg....throw in a couple of trips on dl and he would fit right in with the rest of the Cubs...

 

 

Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2003 MON 146 504 78 135 34 4 19 77 89 155 13 10 .268 .380 .464 .844

2004 MON 160 572 112 146 39 2 32 67 106 152 13 6 .255 .374 .498 .872

2005 WAS 148 565 76 140 42 7 11 57 84 147 8 10 .248 .351 .405 .756

 

Seems there might be a park effect playing in RFK. I like his OBP and his +.800 OPS. At wrigley I would assume the numbers would return to

 

.260/.360/.480/.840

 

No because he walks. Alot. He's had over a 100 BB's in a year. That doesn't happen with this team. I don't care how much he K's if he leads off and gets on bace at a .360-.380 clip that's ALOT more RBI chances for Lee and Ramirez.

[rawaction]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

[goonys evil twin]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

[badger1679666666]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

Ok, what I don't get is that you stress OBP, amonst other posters whose opinions I actually value, but then when a chance for two HUGE OBP guys is talked about, you're not thrilled? I just don't get it.

 

We aren't gonna get Dunn, we aren't gonna get Abreu - we aren't giving up Prior or Z. So Let's move past those two pipe dreams. I just don't get how these two don't fit the exact bill that you argue for.

[CubinNY]

I wouldn't be thrilled but with the pitching the Cubs have that team would be competitive. I want more than that but I can think of far worse outcomes this offseason.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

And to think we are all pesimists who have nothing good to say.

[RyCubsFan]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

Ok, what I don't get is that you stress OBP, amonst other posters whose opinions I actually value, but then when a chance for two HUGE OBP guys is talked about, you're not thrilled? I just don't get it.

 

We aren't gonna get Dunn, we aren't gonna get Abreu - we aren't giving up Prior or Z. So Let's move past those two pipe dreams. I just don't get how these two don't fit the exact bill that you argue for.

 

 

It is entirely possible to get Abreu w/out trading Prior or Z. Yes, it's unlikely, but it certainly is possible.

 

There are plenty of options that are better than Huff. Cliff Floyd comes to mind as an option. I'd rather have Mench than Huff. Heck, I'd rather put Bradley in RF than play Huff out there. I'd prefer Kearns to Huff as well.

 

Abreu and Dunn will both be very difficult to trade for, but not impossible. Even if we can't get either of them though, there are still much better options than Aubrey Huff.

[rawaction]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

Ok, what I don't get is that you stress OBP, amonst other posters whose opinions I actually value, but then when a chance for two HUGE OBP guys is talked about, you're not thrilled? I just don't get it.

 

We aren't gonna get Dunn, we aren't gonna get Abreu - we aren't giving up Prior or Z. So Let's move past those two pipe dreams. I just don't get how these two don't fit the exact bill that you argue for.

 

Huge OBPs? Wilkerson and Huff both had down years in 05. They have put up good (not huge) OBPs in the past, but their 05's make it less of a guarantee. I think the point he, and I, were trying to make is that Lugo, Huff, and Wilkerson are not difference makers. The Cubs had/have a chance to add a difference maker. Whether it's a longshot or not, Abreu, Dunn, and Manny all are possibilities. And they are what a team with a $100M+ payroll should be after.

[goonys evil twin]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

Ok, what I don't get is that you stress OBP, amonst other posters whose opinions I actually value, but then when a chance for two HUGE OBP guys is talked about, you're not thrilled? I just don't get it.

 

We aren't gonna get Dunn, we aren't gonna get Abreu - we aren't giving up Prior or Z. So Let's move past those two pipe dreams. I just don't get how these two don't fit the exact bill that you argue for.

 

Which ones are the "HUGE OBP" guys?

 

My problem with this scenario is that RF is the biggest hole, and Huff isn't exactly the biggest solution. He's no guarantee to be better than Burnitz (but at least he does have that upside). I like Wilkerson (that is who is being talked about, right?). And I don't really think that Lugo is guaranteed huge improvement over Cedeno. But he's good enough to help the team, and as long as this all didn't cost the farm or the entire payroll, and that they brought in better bench help and maybe some improved pitching (I'd love to not see Rusch ever start another game for the Cubs).

[badger1679666666]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

Ok, what I don't get is that you stress OBP, amonst other posters whose opinions I actually value, but then when a chance for two HUGE OBP guys is talked about, you're not thrilled? I just don't get it.

 

We aren't gonna get Dunn, we aren't gonna get Abreu - we aren't giving up Prior or Z. So Let's move past those two pipe dreams. I just don't get how these two don't fit the exact bill that you argue for.

 

Huge OBPs? Wilkerson and Huff both had down years in 05. They have put up good (not huge) OBPs in the past, but their 05's make it less of a guarantee. I think the point he, and I, were trying to make is that Lugo, Huff, and Wilkerson are not difference makers. The Cubs had/have a chance to add a difference maker. Whether it's a longshot or not, Abreu, Dunn, and Manny all are possibilities. And they are what a team with a $100M+ payroll should be after.

 

Fine maybe not Huge, but very very good.

 

.374, .380, .370 OBP in MON, RFK's #'s are a classic textbook case of park effects but he still walked a ton, his average was down which caused the OBP to sink. (Wilkerson)

 

And Lugo I was mistaken on not a HUGE OBP at all, but a good one

 

.340, .333, .340, .362 in the last four years with good DE, improving K:BB ratio, and good speed.

 

I'm not high on Huff at all, though maybe a change of scenery would do him good.

[badger1679666666]

I wouldn't be satisfied, but I'd be ok with it. If Hendry makes every effort to get guys like Abreu and/or Dunn, which it seems he may be doing in Abreu's case, then I'm ok with those 3. But I won't be satisfied until this team stops overspending on $7 starters and backup MIs.

 

I could have sworn I responsed in this thread, but I can't find it.

 

Raw sums up my thoughts pretty well. I wouldnt' be thrilled, but it wouldn't be a bad option either. It would hopefully leave room for other help (bench, RH platoon for Huff if he falters as starter, pitching) and would improve some weak positions.

 

Ok, what I don't get is that you stress OBP, amonst other posters whose opinions I actually value, but then when a chance for two HUGE OBP guys is talked about, you're not thrilled? I just don't get it.

 

We aren't gonna get Dunn, we aren't gonna get Abreu - we aren't giving up Prior or Z. So Let's move past those two pipe dreams. I just don't get how these two don't fit the exact bill that you argue for.

 

Which ones are the "HUGE OBP" guys?

.

 

Wilkerson.

 

For the record, I haven't talked much about Huff in this thread at all, Just Lugo and Wilkerson. Get Bradley and stick him in right and we have significant OBP improvement everywhere. Not just mediocre improvement, significant OBP improvement.

[fromthestretch]

.374, .380, .370 OBP in MON, RFK's #'s are a classic textbook case of park effects but he still walked a ton, his average was down which caused the OBP to sink. (Wilkerson)

 

I think the dip in his numbers last year were due more to a forearm injury than the park in which he was playing half his games.

 

But I agree that he is a good OBP guy, and should be able get his AVG back up to .265-ish and his OBP back up to the .370 range. Plus, if healthy, he'll hit for some power.

[UK1679666180]

For the record, I haven't talked much about Huff in this thread at all, Just Lugo and Wilkerson. Get Bradley and stick him in right and we have significant OBP improvement everywhere. Not just mediocre improvement, significant OBP improvement.

 

There's no doubt there would be huge improvement offensively with the likes of Lugo, Bradley, and Wilkerson.

 

The difficulty arises when it becomes 3 separate trades to accomplish that.

 

But...

 

Lugo

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Bradley

Wilkerson

Murton

Barrett

 

Looks pretty darn good.

 

Lugo is a sign. upgrade over last year, Murton for a full year would be as well in LF, Wilkerson would be a huge upgrade, and Bradley as well.

 

I do question how the Cubs could pull that off, though.

[WrigleyField 22]

I didn't take the time to read through the whole thread.

I would be happy with those guys.

I would be happier with Bradley/Wilkerson/Cedeno at those spots, assuming we get a pretty comparable player at 2B when we give up Walker(its gonna happen) likely it would be Perez though :(

But lets say its not and 2B is Walker or a similar player(we'll use his name.

 

RF-Wilkerson/Bradley

2B-Walker

1B- Lee

3B- Ramirez

CF- Bradley/Wilkerson

C- Barret

LF- Murton

SS- Cedeno

[indifferent]

No one has mentioned what these signing would relative to the rest of the NL Central. No one else has done anything except for the Cubs so far (unless you include the Pirates/Reds Casey for Williams trade). A poster mentioned these three players would boost the team's OBP to .330 from .308. That's pretty huge. The Cubs would have far fewer games with a runner on second or third with no outs resulting in no runs in key situations.

 

Relative to the NL Central, the Cubs are in fine shape. Of course, it still comes down to your starting pitchers staying healthy and effective.

[UK1679666180]

The Cubs OBP had to be higher than .308 last year, probably in the .320-.330 range.

 

But if those improvements occured, (won't happen) but fun to spectulate.

 

The Cubs Cf'ers had a .281 OBP in 705 PAs. I'd predict Bradley to have an OBP in the .350-.360 range.

 

The Cubs SS had a .307 OBP in 706 PAs. I'd predict Lugo will have an OBP in the .340-.350 range.

 

The Cubs LF'ers had an OBP of .319 in 664 PAs, that includes Murton's .390 OBP in limited action. I'd predict Murton to have an OBP in the .350-.360 range next year.

 

The Cubs RF'ers had an OBP of .320 in 697 PAs. If the put Wilkerson there, I'd predict he'd have an OBP in the .365-.375 range.

 

These are likely the 4 spots that would see the biggest increase that need the most improvement.

 

As the OBP would go up, so would the SLG over last year as well.

 

If the Cubs pulled it off, they'd be in the top 5 as far as runs scored and improve on standard deviation as well.

 

While I expect Lee to regress, I am encouraged that Ramirez will likely play more than 119 games.

[nilodnayr]

For the record, I haven't talked much about Huff in this thread at all, Just Lugo and Wilkerson. Get Bradley and stick him in right and we have significant OBP improvement everywhere. Not just mediocre improvement, significant OBP improvement.

 

There's no doubt there would be huge improvement offensively with the likes of Lugo, Bradley, and Wilkerson.

 

The difficulty arises when it becomes 3 separate trades to accomplish that.

 

But...

 

Lugo

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Bradley

Wilkerson

Murton

Barrett

 

Looks pretty darn good.

 

Lugo is a sign. upgrade over last year, Murton for a full year would be as well in LF, Wilkerson would be a huge upgrade, and Bradley as well.

 

I do question how the Cubs could pull that off, though.

 

It'd be difficult to do it without getting rid of Walker, which seems like what Hendry wants to do anyway. This is what I would do

 

Walker and Patterson and Mitre to LA for Lowe and Bradley

Williams and mid level prospect for Wilkerson

Angel Guzman for Lugo (wayyyy overpaying but reasonably sane compared to some of the brave names that have been floated about that are too crazy to be true, but indicate that whoever wants him is going to have to overpay)

Welly for Bigbie (how could hendry not have accepted this yet?)

Sign a Hidalgo-esque RH OF

 

I would start off the season:

Lugo

Wilkerson

Lee

ARAM

Bradley

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

But we would have lots of options, Wilk and Bradley can be flipped, if lugo falters, bradley or possibly murton could be moved to the top of the order.

 

A rotation of Z, Prior, Wood, Lowe, Maddux would be extremely solid

 

A pen of Dempster, Howry, Eyre, Wuertz, Ohman, Rusch, Novoa will hopefully not suck

 

A bench of Hairston, Bigbie, Hidalgo, Mabry, and Blanco should provide some decent power. Back up ss is cedeno, playing second base.

[CubfaninCA]

Wilkerson would be alright in the 5 hole & in RF. His .839, .844 & 872 ops from 02-04 beats the heck out of Burnitz.

 

I can't see any deals w/ Tampa. They're almost impossible to deal with.

[Outshined_One]

Wilkerson would be alright in the 5 hole & in RF. His .839, .844 & 872 ops from 02-04 beats the heck out of Burnitz.

 

I can't see any deals w/ Tampa. They're almost impossible to deal with.

 

Stubborn GM Chuck LaMar was shown the door not too long ago.

 

I have no idea how the new GM operates, but the rumors regarding Lugo and Huff seem a bit more reasonable than demanding Carlos Zambrano straight up.

[DonnieD]

I would start off the season:

Lugo

Wilkerson

Lee

ARAM

Bradley

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

A rotation of Z, Prior, Wood, Lowe, Maddux would be extremely solid

 

A pen of Dempster, Howry, Eyre, Wuertz, Ohman, Rusch, Novoa will hopefully not suck

 

A bench of Hairston, Bigbie, Hidalgo, Mabry, and Blanco

Did you decide to flat-out cut Neifi Perez and eat all of his new contract? Not a bad move in my opinion. Or maybe Neifi and Macias are a package deal and when we don't tender Macias a contract Neifi will be so heartbroken he will retire.