Gut feeling: Are we headed for a worst-case scenario?

[CubfaninCA]

Point of my original post was that many of us were fine with the early moves - the two relivers, Rusch, and (gulp) Neifi - assuming that we acquired some big help for the lineup (Furcal / Pierre / Big RFer). We have wound up with Jacque Jones and Juan Pierre. That ain't exactly what I had in mind, and its hard to believe that JH isgoing to find away to further strengthen the team without severely weakining it in another catagory.

 

Jones beats the helloutta Burnitz or Patterson in RF. People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

i want your reasoning on why jones "beats the hell outta burnitz".

 

Younger, better d and speed. Burnitz is bound for a .700 ops.

[VVMattVV]

Point of my original post was that many of us were fine with the early moves - the two relivers, Rusch, and (gulp) Neifi - assuming that we acquired some big help for the lineup (Furcal / Pierre / Big RFer). We have wound up with Jacque Jones and Juan Pierre. That ain't exactly what I had in mind, and its hard to believe that JH isgoing to find away to further strengthen the team without severely weakining it in another catagory.

 

Jones beats the helloutta Burnitz or Patterson in RF. People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

i want your reasoning on why jones "beats the hell outta burnitz".

 

Younger, better d and speed. Burnitz is bound for a .700 ops.

 

How does Jacque Jones provide better defense than Burnitz? No doubt Burnitz has the better arm. Jones might have more speed, but I don't think that his glove is any better. Burnitz was one of the better corner OF with the glove last year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Point of my original post was that many of us were fine with the early moves - the two relivers, Rusch, and (gulp) Neifi - assuming that we acquired some big help for the lineup (Furcal / Pierre / Big RFer). We have wound up with Jacque Jones and Juan Pierre. That ain't exactly what I had in mind, and its hard to believe that JH isgoing to find away to further strengthen the team without severely weakining it in another catagory.

 

Jones beats the helloutta Burnitz or Patterson in RF. People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

i want your reasoning on why jones "beats the hell outta burnitz".

 

Younger, better d and speed. Burnitz is bound for a .700 ops.

 

Going forward he'll be better sure. I think what Sulley was getting at was that Jones isn't going to be much of an improvement over last year's Burnitz, which is what was being referenced with the improvement of the club.

[goonys evil twin]

People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

I think that is an absurd statement.

 

Fans of a 100m payroll team can't be accused of setting their sights too high when there were RF available and the team had roughly $30m to spend, and a huge hole in RF. This is the same type of reasoning that fans should be happy with back to back +.500 seasons.

[ShawonOmeter12]

i am sure that the rf u are refering to is giles, but what i do not understand is why everyone just assumes we could have got him. just because u want someone doesnt mean u can get him. would i have liked giles, of course, do i think jones is good no but he was probably the best option availabe at the time so that is what we got. i think he will do ok until something better comes along next year so i can live with him for a year or two.

[UK1679666180]

Beyond Giles, there was Wilkerson, Bradley, Sanders, etc...

 

RF wasn't an all or nothing proposition between Giles and then Jones, there were plenty of options between that were avail. and were better.

[CubfaninCA]

People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

I think that is an absurd statement.

 

Fans of a 100m payroll team can't be accused of setting their sights too high when there were RF available and the team had roughly $30m to spend, and a huge hole in RF. This is the same type of reasoning that fans should be happy with back to back +.500 seasons.

 

The solutions play 2b, SS & LF. Luis Gonzalez, Floyd, Tejada & Soriano are more likley options than any good RFer. Move the Cubs to Long Beach & they could probably have both Kent & Giles right now. Location counts.

[Sarcastic]

Beyond Giles, there was Wilkerson, Bradley, Sanders, etc...

 

RF wasn't an all or nothing proposition between Giles and then Jones, there were plenty of options between that were avail. and were better.

 

Well, it was reported that Hendry looked into getting Bradley and Wilkerson. Perhaps the asking price was too high. We'll never know exactly why those deals didn't happen.

[CubfaninCA]

Beyond Giles, there was Wilkerson, Bradley, Sanders, etc...

 

RF wasn't an all or nothing proposition between Giles and then Jones, there were plenty of options between that were avail. and were better.

 

Bowden seems like the type of guy who really values someone like Soriano. Who could the Cubs have thrown @ Bowden to outbid TX?? Pie & Hill?

 

Sanders is not a better option btw.

 

As for Bradley, Oakland gave up a real good prospect & doesn't sound like Coletti wants to deal w/ the Cubs.

[CubfaninCA]

Point of my original post was that many of us were fine with the early moves - the two relivers, Rusch, and (gulp) Neifi - assuming that we acquired some big help for the lineup (Furcal / Pierre / Big RFer). We have wound up with Jacque Jones and Juan Pierre. That ain't exactly what I had in mind, and its hard to believe that JH isgoing to find away to further strengthen the team without severely weakining it in another catagory.

 

Jones beats the helloutta Burnitz or Patterson in RF. People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

i want your reasoning on why jones "beats the hell outta burnitz".

 

Younger, better d and speed. Burnitz is bound for a .700 ops.

 

Going forward he'll be better sure. I think what Sulley was getting at was that Jones isn't going to be much of an improvement over last year's Burnitz, which is what was being referenced with the improvement of the club.

 

Ah. I'm just referring to 2006. As a betting man, I put my money on Jones outproducing Burnitz by 70 points in ops and Burnitz hitting the DL by June. Yes, Burnitz has been pretty durable through his career, but things change the closer you get to 40.

[ShawonOmeter12]

i dont think we stood a chance with giles. the man is all ready filthy rich so why do people think that he would want to uproot his family and leave the nice and warm west coast for a few million more to play in ice cold wrigley? i believe that he had the intentions of going back to san diego all along.

[goonys evil twin]

but what i do not understand is why everyone just assumes we could have got him. just because u want someone doesnt mean u can get him.

 

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to assume that you can't get a guy. I believe practically any team could get practically any player if they wanted him bad enough, and that the way they show how badly they want him is via the recruiting process and the offer. It's pretty safe to say that if the Cubs had any recruiting process with Giles, it was minimal, and there was no significant offer made. That is where the fault lies, not with the fans who saw an enormous hole, an obvious solution, and plenty of resources to get it done. Top payroll team's fans shouldn't have to settle for mediocrity in as many positions as Cubs fans see mediocrity.

[JeffH]

This has been talked about a lot, but the key is keeping Jones away from LHP.

 

2005:

 

Jones vs. RHP: .268/.348/.466/.814

 

Burnitz vs. RHP: .267/.345/.430/.775

 

Not an insignificant difference.

 

Jones/Murton for LF! Get a real RF!

[ShawonOmeter12]

there are bigger things in life than baseball and money. giles had no intentions of uprooting his family and leaving the west coast if he did i would be willing to bet that alot more teams than just the yankees and cards would have been after him.

[goonys evil twin]

i dont think we stood a chance with giles. the man is all ready filthy rich so why do people think that he would want to uproot his family and leave the nice and warm west coast for a few million more to play in ice cold wrigley? i believe that he had the intentions of going back to san diego all along.

 

San Diego almost lost him. There was a 2 week period when they pretty much stopped talking to each other. That's when you pounce. And guys move their families all the time, whether or not they are already rich. Ice cold Wrigley? It's freaking hot most of the season, and players don't have to live there in the offseason, their families don't even always follow them during the season.

[goonys evil twin]

there are bigger things in life than baseball and money. giles had no intentions of uprooting his family and leaving the west coast if he did i would be willing to bet that alot more teams than just the yankees and cards would have been after him.

 

Oh please. Where were the Yankees going to play him? They lost money last year, are cutting payroll this year, and needed a CF, not a RF. The Cards aren't spending any money, and aren't as desperate as the Cubs for an impact bat. All the talk was for 3/30, and that's what he got. 3/33 would have got your foot in the door, 3/45 probably would get you the difference maker.

 

And he wasn't the only one.

 

The freaking excuses for this pathetic front office are troubling to me. Why are fans working so hard to make up reasons why this front office should receive a free pass for their continued failures?

[Magnetic Curses]

Point of my original post was that many of us were fine with the early moves - the two relivers, Rusch, and (gulp) Neifi - assuming that we acquired some big help for the lineup (Furcal / Pierre / Big RFer). We have wound up with Jacque Jones and Juan Pierre. That ain't exactly what I had in mind, and its hard to believe that JH isgoing to find away to further strengthen the team without severely weakining it in another catagory.

 

Jones beats the helloutta Burnitz or Patterson in RF. People set their sights way too high for RF given who was available, i.e. nobody good.

 

i want your reasoning on why jones "beats the hell outta burnitz".

 

Younger, better d and speed. Burnitz is bound for a .700 ops.

 

yes, not really, and who cares? oh yeah, and so is jones.

 

burnitz, statistically, was the best defensive RFer in the NL last season--and would have been a GGer if they handed them out to corner OFers. i don't see how jones is any kind of upgrade.

 

they had identical OPS's last season, assuming you don't weight OBP as a slightly more important stat, which i do. jones is no upgrade, and at 3 years, he's in the negative.

[ShawonOmeter12]

i guess i am the only one that feels this way but if i had a choice of playing ball, being rich, and being able to tuck my kids into bed most nights or playing ball, being rich, and seeing my kids every now and then i would take the first option. i wanted giles like the rest of the people on here but i knew we wouldnt get him. some players sign for money, some for titles, some for playing time, and some for personel reasons. sometimes u cant buy a player out of what he wants or how he feels. u cant always get the guys you want so i will continue to supprt the guys we do have even if i dont agree with them being here. Edited December 29, 2005 by ShawonOmeter12

[JeffH]

burnitz, statistically, was the best defensive RFer in the NL last season--and would have been a GGer if they handed them out to corner OFers.

 

:?:

[goonys evil twin]

i guess i am the only one that feels this way but if i had a choice of playing ball, being rich, and being able to tuck my kids into bed most nights or playing ball, being rich, and seeing my kids every now and then i would take the first option. i wanted giles like the rest of the people on here but i knew we wouldnt get him. some players sign for money, some for titles, some for playing time, and some for personel reasons. sometimes u cant buy a player out of what he wants or how he feels. u cant always get the guys you want so i will continue to supprt the guys we do have even if i dont agree with them being here.

 

The fact is you don't know they couldn't have got him, because they didn't even try for him, or at least try hard enough to create a ripple in the hot stove news ocean. Curt Schilling said he'd never go to Boston. Theo recruited him heavily, sold him on the team, and paid big time for him. Hendry has gone after nothing but 2nd and 3rd tier (or worse) players all offseason.

[Magnetic Curses]

i dont think we stood a chance with giles. the man is all ready filthy rich so why do people think that he would want to uproot his family and leave the nice and warm west coast for a few million more to play in ice cold wrigley? i believe that he had the intentions of going back to san diego all along.

 

um....

 

1. not all players make their homes in the cities that they play in. they also spend half of their time on the road anyway, so it's not really a big deal to live in san diego and play somwhere else.

 

2. players accept more money all the time to change venues. JD Drew was born and raised in Georgia, yet accepted 55 mil to play in LA. maddux could have gone to san diego, but accepted more money to play for the cubs. it's absolutely insane to suggest that players aren't affected by money, especially today.

 

3. giles would be a cub at 3/39, believe it.

 

4. by your logic, it's a wonder why anyone would sign with the cubs, considering that there are much more climatically hospitable places to play. why doesn't hawaii have a team?

 

last time i checked, baseball was played primarily in the summer. and even in april, you're going to have to travel somewhere cold to play--the padres don't have any more home games than the cubs.

[Magnetic Curses]

burnitz, statistically, was the best defensive RFer in the NL last season--and would have been a GGer if they handed them out to corner OFers.

 

:?:

 

if there were a GG for each position, LF, CF, RF rather than just 3 CFers, he would have gotten one.

 

does that answer your question?

[CubfaninCA]

i dont think we stood a chance with giles. the man is all ready filthy rich so why do people think that he would want to uproot his family and leave the nice and warm west coast for a few million more to play in ice cold wrigley? i believe that he had the intentions of going back to san diego all along.

 

San Diego almost lost him. There was a 2 week period when they pretty much stopped talking to each other. That's when you pounce. And guys move their families all the time, whether or not they are already rich. Ice cold Wrigley? It's freaking hot most of the season, and players don't have to live there in the offseason, their families don't even always follow them during the season.

 

Some people value family over money and Giles got what he wanted from SD. It's ok to be wrong from time to time.

[goonys evil twin]

burnitz, statistically, was the best defensive RFer in the NL last season--and would have been a GGer if they handed them out to corner OFers.

 

:?:

 

if there were a GG for each position, LF, CF, RF rather than just 3 CFers, he would have gotten one.

 

does that answer your question?

 

No way, he doesn't hit enough to get a gold glove.

[Magnetic Curses]

i guess i am the only one that feels this way but if i had a choice of playing ball, being rich, and being able to tuck my kids into bed most nights or playing ball, being rich, and seeing my kids every now and then i would take the first option. i wanted giles like the rest of the people on here but i knew we wouldnt get him. some players sign for money, some for titles, some for playing time, and some for personel reasons. sometimes u cant buy a player out of what he wants or how he feels. u cant always get the guys you want so i will continue to supprt the guys we do have even if i dont agree with them being here.

 

why did giles sign a huge contract with pittsburgh in the first place, then?