A backup plan I could live with

[goonys evil twin]

I apologize for doing this, everybody has their "my roster" thread here. And much of what I'm going to write is just rehashing old news. But I've been all about going after Giles, or if not him, going hard after an impact RF bat to strengthen the lineup.

 

I'm going to assume that doesn't happen, because very rarely do the Cubs do what I want them to do. After making that assumption, I'm going to put together a roster that I could live with, going strictly on what I would consider back-up plans to the preferred big RF stick. And I'm going on the assumption that Howry was the last pitching addition.

 

First off, I'd sign Furcal. I'm not a big Furcal fan, but Hendry seems to have been gung-ho about the guy, and he is pretty good. If 5/50 gets it done, bring him in. If you can't get him, stick with Cedeno, and spend his money on pitching (again, assuming you can't get the big OF stick).

 

OF is still a big issue though. And with all the rumors of Milton Bradley being out there for the taking for next to nothing, I have to believe something can be done. If Hendry can get Bradley for little cost, that would be a big move, especially if he goes to CF where he's a great bat for the position, compared to RF, where he's just good.

 

How to solve the RF issue then? Lots of 2nd tier names have been mentioned. I'm not willing to accept going with guys like Wilson, Encarnacion, etc. And if Giles, Abreu or Dunn can't be had, then maybe the Cubs should look to be creative. I've heard the names of Mench and Dellucci a lot of late. Neither is good enough to man a corner OF spot everyday. But they do combine to form a very productive platoon. Mench owns LH pitching, while Dellucci is great against the RHP. Add in Murton to the mix and I think you have a chance to give 400-500 PA to each guy, and get upper half production from both corner OF spots.

 

The Cubs seem to want to deal Walker, while Texas supposedly wants to get rid of Soriano's contract. I would put together a package involving Patterson, Walker, Williams + prospects for Soriano, Mench and Dellucci. I don't like Soriano at his salary, but if you find a way to keep him lower in the order, he can be a very productive player despite being OBP challenged.

 

Here is the lineup and bench:

6 - Furcal

8 - Bradley

3 - Lee

5 - Ramirez

6 - Soriano

9 - Dellucci/Mench

7 - Murton

2 - Barrett

Blanco

Perez

Cedeno

Hairston

Dellucci/Mench

Mabry

 

I think that OF is solid, but not spectaculiar, and the bench goes from poor to decent. MI gets very deep, while the only position without an acceptable emergency plan assuming an injury is CF, but that could be covered by Pie later in the summer. 3B would be shaky as well, but between Neifi, Ronny and Mabry, I think you can withstand Aramis missing 10-15 games. Ronny provides cheap insurance in case Furcal or Soriano don't live up to their contracts in the coming years. I wouldn't want Dellucci and Mench starting together very often, but it at least provides some insurance against a Murton flameout.

 

The lineup relies heavily on Lee/Ramirez remaining beasts in the middle, but does allow for some return to normalcy for DLee, with production spread out from top to bottom and no black holes.

 

Yeah, I know it won't happen like this, but it's a blueprint for a backup plan that I'd be willing to start 2006 with.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I love Mench if used in a platoon, but Dusty has never been a good platoon manager. And I start disliking Mench a lot when he has to face RHP.

 

Delucci had a fluke season, IMO. Soriano stinks.

 

I applaud the effort, but dislike the options, other than the Bradley and Furcal signings, both of which I like.

 

What about Jason Michaels from Philly to go with Murton and Bradley in the OF? Michaels would seem to be the odd man out with Aaron Rowand now in town, and Shane Victorino ready to play.

 

I know you don't like Austin Kearns. Any interest in Jay Gibbons from Baltimore, or Jonny Gomes from Tampa?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I love Mench if used in a platoon, but Dusty has never been a good platoon manager. And I start disliking Mench a lot when he has to face RHP.

 

Delucci had a fluke season, IMO. Soriano stinks.

 

I applaud the effort, but dislike the options, other than the Bradley and Furcal signings, both of which I like.

 

What about Jason Michaels from Philly to go with Murton and Bradley in the OF? Michaels would seem to be the odd man out with Aaron Rowand now in town, and Shane Victorino ready to play.

 

I know you don't like Austin Kearns. Any interest in Jay Gibbons from Baltimore, or Jonny Gomes from Tampa?

 

Dellucci may not return to his numbers, but he credits his improvement to having laser eye surgery last offseason. Even aside from this year, he has been a good platoon player, and in his time with Texas he doesn't have bad home/road splits.

 

I also hate Soriano, love Gomes, and would like Michaels for CF only.

[nolanwood]

I love Mench if used in a platoon, but Dusty has never been a good platoon manager. And I start disliking Mench a lot when he has to face RHP.

 

Delucci had a fluke season, IMO. Soriano stinks.

 

I applaud the effort, but dislike the options, other than the Bradley and Furcal signings, both of which I like.

 

What about Jason Michaels from Philly to go with Murton and Bradley in the OF? Michaels would seem to be the odd man out with Aaron Rowand now in town, and Shane Victorino ready to play.

 

I know you don't like Austin Kearns. Any interest in Jay Gibbons from Baltimore, or Jonny Gomes from Tampa?

 

I'd pass on Gibbons.

 

I think we need more of an impact in the OF, then going with Michaels/Murton/Bradley or the likes. I wouldn't mind the addition of Michaels or Bradley to the team.....I think Michaels probably has too high of an .obp for Hendry to show interest, though. I'd like to see the addition of Cliff Floyd, but not sure if that'd be possible either.

[goonys evil twin]

I love Mench if used in a platoon, but Dusty has never been a good platoon manager. And I start disliking Mench a lot when he has to face RHP.

 

Delucci had a fluke season, IMO. Soriano stinks.

 

I applaud the effort, but dislike the options, other than the Bradley and Furcal signings, both of which I like.

 

What about Jason Michaels from Philly to go with Murton and Bradley in the OF? Michaels would seem to be the odd man out with Aaron Rowand now in town, and Shane Victorino ready to play.

 

I know you don't like Austin Kearns. Any interest in Jay Gibbons from Baltimore, or Jonny Gomes from Tampa?

 

I don't dislike Kearns. I just wouldn't consider him a solution to all the problems without something to go with him, he's a candidate for bustville. I'd be fine with Michaels replacing some of those moves. Dellucci might have had a fluke season, but he's been close to that before, and his 2002-2004 splits vs righties (.251 .357 .477) would be fine in a platoon, not to mention his 2005 splits (.251 .369 .525). The key is not having him face lefties. Assuming either Mench or Murton would be available on the bench nearly anytime a manager brought in a lefty to face him, you should be okay.

 

I don't like Soriano, but he clearly does not stink. Such hyperbole somewhat takes away from the rest of your argument. He's 30, and puts up good numbers for a 2B, while he also satisfies much of the desire for speed Dusty has been talking about for years. The lineup I listed has the potential for good SB numbers from 4 positions, and 1st to 3rd ability from all but Ramirez. That would be the most athletic Cubs lineup in years, and would, in all likelihood, score the most runs of any Cubs lineup this decade.

 

Remember, this was about backup plans. It is not my ideal lineup. It was created in an attempt to make the best of what I consider to be Hendry's flawed theories, and Baker's misguided strategies. I'm not dying for any of these guys to be Cubs. But what they each provide is a sort of blueprint for the backup moves that a tools happy Hendry might be interested in.

 

If you can't get a stud RF, get a platoon that could provide a near 900 OPS if used properly. This also helps the bench. If you insist on adding speed, make sure you at least acquire somewhat productive bats to go along with that speed, because you can't steal 2B if you aren't on 1B. If Neifi is the backup MI, make sure you solidify the starting MI, and keep Cedeno around, so as to minimize the need for Perez to be in the lineup. If you have to trade Walker, at least get back a productive 2B.

 

At this point my goal is to avoid Neifi getting 400+ at bats, get Macias off the team, and prevent an OF situation of Murton, Pierre and Wilson/Encarnacion/Burnitz.

 

It's nothing like I dreamed of early in the offseason, but it does avoid many of the nightmare scenarios we're all to familar with.

[CubinNY]

My only problem with your post is that I don't think it is Hendry's back up plan. I think it his plan A or close to it.

 

I could live with it too.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I don't like Soriano, but he clearly does not stink. Such hyperbole somewhat takes away from the rest of your argument. He's 30, and puts up good numbers for a 2B, while he also satisfies much of the desire for speed Dusty has been talking about for years.

 

But goony, he DOES stink. He has no plate discipline. Zero. His OBP is embarassingly bad. He is an awful defender. He is Corey Patterson with more power. And he's paid an awful lot of money. We can do better than that.

 

As for the Mench/Delucci platoon idea, it's not that I don't appreciate the soundness of it, I do. It's that I KNOW, for a fact, that with our manager it would never work. Now, go get Whitey Herzog or Sparky Anderson out of retirement, and you might have a workable solution....

[UBlink]

I don't see Texas having an interest in Patterson when they already have 2 similar CF's in Nix and Mathews. Keep Patterson and throw in more pitching prospects.

 

I see lots of Rangers games and I think Soriano gets excessive criticism. His defense is frustrating because he can make the outstanding play, but then boot the routine play (maybe he needs to be tested for ADD?).

 

And the Rangers are going to need another corner OF if you take both Mench and Delucci.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Soriano doesn't suck. He has great range defensively and has great hands. I really don't know why he has so many errors. Maybe he has ADD. I'm not kidding, sometimes it seems like he is just napping out there and the errors come fast and furious He's an OBP nightmare, but he slugs like a champ. If we bat him 6th instead of 1 or 2, I'd be happy to have him. Defense is overrated anyways. I don't like his salary, but we could do a lot worse.

 

I really like Bradley in CF and if with Mench you either get an average ML season or possibly stud production at a cheap price. If we save on RF and CF, we can afford to throw money someplace else. Furcal really isn't my favorite at 50M/5, but I could live with it.

 

Furcal isn't the ideal leadoff hitter, IMO, but he'll do. I'd rather not pay a premium for him, but at least it reduces the chances of Neifi playing a lot to nil.

 

Never underestimate Dusty's ability to F up a perfectly good lineup. Slap some horns on that man's head and a forked tail.

[rawaction]

Goony starting a thread?

=P~

 

I think it's a solid idea. I could live with it too. But I think Texas is giving up too much. 3 starters for a downgrade at 2B and a SP. Only thing it does is save them money.

 

I'm almost willing to go with Pierre and Furcal 1-2, just for the lineup stability, and hope for Floyd in RF. I'd like a SP too. Loiaza would have been decent if it was January and he was looking for a lesser deal.

[BigbadB]

Where's the love for Aubrey Huff? If Giles, Abreu and Dunn are not options, why not send some pitching Tampa's way?

 

I know they ask for the moon, but they have a horrible glut of outfielders, and sooner or later their demands will come down. Huff has a 3b arm, so that shouldn't be a problem in RF. I really don't know much about him defensively. He's a lefty bat that would fit nicely in the heart of the order.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Soriano

Murton

Barrett

 

Walker and pitching for Soriano. We have tons of relievers and a few decent starters.

 

Pitching and more pitching for Huff.

 

Both teams need pitching. We have it.

 

Would Texas want Cedeno or is Kinsler still projected at SS?

 

Soriano isn't one of my textbook guys, but in the right spot in the order, he can do some damage. Respectable AVG (career .280), good SLG, excellent speed, scores runs in droves, drives in runs well for a 2b. Bat him 6th and Murton and Barrett would have wonderful RBI opportunities.

 

I could see a Mench/Delucci platoon working as well, but as someone else stated above, I doubt Texas would want to move that many guys. Huff, on the other hand, is getting too expensive for Tampa and they need pitching as bad as Texas does. Does Huff cost you more or less than Mench/Delucci would cost?

[CubfaninCA]

Am surprised to see this as your backup plan goony. Never expected Furcal and Soriano. Actually I can see this lineup...

 

CF Pierre

SS Furcal

RF Bradley

1B Lee

3B ARam

2B Soriano

LF Murton

C Barrett

[jmajew]

Where's the love for Aubrey Huff? If Giles, Abreu and Dunn are not options, why not send some pitching Tampa's way?

 

I know they ask for the moon, but they have a horrible glut of outfielders, and sooner or later their demands will come down. Huff has a 3b arm, so that shouldn't be a problem in RF. I really don't know much about him defensively. He's a lefty bat that would fit nicely in the heart of the order.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Soriano

Murton

Barrett

 

Walker and pitching for Soriano. We have tons of relievers and a few decent starters.

 

Pitching and more pitching for Huff.

 

Both teams need pitching. We have it.

 

Would Texas want Cedeno or is Kinsler still projected at SS?

 

Soriano isn't one of my textbook guys, but in the right spot in the order, he can do some damage. Respectable AVG (career .280), good SLG, excellent speed, scores runs in droves, drives in runs well for a 2b. Bat him 6th and Murton and Barrett would have wonderful RBI opportunities.

 

I could see a Mench/Delucci platoon working as well, but as someone else stated above, I doubt Texas would want to move that many guys. Huff, on the other hand, is getting too expensive for Tampa and they need pitching as bad as Texas does. Does Huff cost you more or less than Mench/Delucci would cost?

 

I really like the Huff idea. However I am not a fan of trading for Soriano. why not keep Walker and bat him second. Soriano is not worth the type of money he makes. Then we still go after Bradley and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

2b Walker

1b Lee

RF Huff

3b Ramirez

CF Bradley

C Barrett

LF Murton

 

The bench would be Blanco, Perez, Hairston, Mabry, and Patterson (defensive specialist to replace Huff and moving Bradley to right and CPatt playing center). Then I think we should go with 12 pitchers cuz our bench is so versatile. Z, Maddux, Prior, Wood, Rusch, Williams, Dempster, Eyre, Howry, Williamson, Ohman, and Wuertz.

 

I think this is a fairly realistic goal for the Cubs and by my calculations the payroll should be roughly 105 million. You can also easily cut costs by not getting rid of Patterson and getting someone who is cheaper to be the defensive specialist in the OF.

 

With that Lineup I'd even be willing to play Pie in center and not get Bradley. Just move up Barret and Murton in the order and bat Pie eighth. This would save you another 4 mil.

[DougDascenzo]

compare Huff and Burnitz's stats from last year

 

.261 .321 .428 .749 22 HR

 

.258 .322 .435 .757 24 HR

 

guess which one is which...

 

then think about which one plays better D

 

True it was a down year for Huff but he is on a downword trend...

 

Im not advocating Burnitz by any means, just trying to point out that Huff is not a very good option...

[jmajew]

compare Huff and Burnitz's stats from last year

 

.261 .321 .428 .749 22 HR

 

.258 .322 .435 .757 24 HR

 

guess which one is which...

 

then think about which one plays better D

 

True it was a down year for Huff but he is on a downword trend...

 

Im not advocating Burnitz by any means, just trying to point out that Huff is not a very good option...

 

Huff just had an off year. He'll probably be at 280/355/500/855 type player in wrigley batting between lee and Ramirez. Last year Burnitz gave us exactly what we expected out of him. Huff no doubt has a much higher ceiling than Burnitz.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

SS Furcal

2b Walker

1b Lee

RF Huff

3b Ramirez

CF Bradley

C Barrett

LF Murton

 

Blanco

Perez

Hairston

Mabry

Patterson

 

Z

Maddux

Prior

Wood

Rusch

Williams

 

Dempster

Eyre

Howry

Williamson

Ohman

Wuertz

 

I'd go to war with that.

[jmajew]

compare Huff and Burnitz's stats from last year

 

.261 .321 .428 .749 22 HR

 

.258 .322 .435 .757 24 HR

 

guess which one is which...

 

then think about which one plays better D

 

True it was a down year for Huff but he is on a downword trend...

 

Im not advocating Burnitz by any means, just trying to point out that Huff is not a very good option...

 

Huff just had an off year. He'll probably be at 280/355/500/855 type player in wrigley batting between lee and Ramirez. Last year Burnitz gave us exactly what we expected out of him. Huff no doubt has a much higher ceiling than Burnitz.

[BigbadB]

Wow, I didn't realize Soriano would be getting 10m next year. Nevermind. You're right. I'd rather have Walker.

 

And at 10m, why not just sign Giles? :wink:

[soapy]

I think you've got a pretty respectable back-up plan there, goony.

 

I wouldn't be against a Mench/Dellucci platoon in RF if Dusty manages it right. IF Wilkerson really is available, I'd like to see Hendry explore that option first. He wouldn't put up great numbers for a RF, but it would be acceptable with Bradley putting up above average numbers in CF and it's a big upgrade from last year.

 

As others have noted, I'd prefer Walker to Soriano, but if Hendry is really hell-bent on trading Walker, I can think of much worse options than Soriano (Neifi). Just as long as he's not near the top of the order. Couple of different options:

 

6-Furcal

4-Walker

3-Lee

5-Ramirez

8-Bradley

2-Barrett

9-Wilkerson

7-Murton

 

OR

 

6-Furcal

8-Bradley

3-Lee

5-Ramirez

9-Wilkerson

4-Soriano

2-Barrett

7-Murton

 

The second option is basically taking goony's suggestion and replacing Mench/Dellucci with Wilkerson.

[CuseCubFan69]

That's a decent backup plan gooney but I want a dominate one and the Cubs have the money to do so IMO.

 

SS - Furcal

CF - Bradley (I would put Murton there but I doubt Baker would)

1B - Lee

RF - Abreu/Dunn

3B - ARam

LF - Murton

C - Barrett

2B - Perez/Cedeno

 

I would trade Walker, Greenburg, Williams, Pinto, Guzman and Harvey for Abreu and have the Phillies pay some of the contract.

[BigbadB]

That's a decent backup plan gooney but I want a dominate one and the Cubs have the money to do so IMO.

 

SS - Furcal

CF - Bradley (I would put Murton there but I doubt Baker would)

1B - Lee

RF - Abreu/Dunn

3B - ARam

LF - Murton

C - Barrett

2B - Perez/Cedeno

 

I would trade Walker, Greenburg, Williams, Pinto, Guzman and Harvey for Abreu and have the Phillies pay some of the contract.

 

Wow, now that's what I call overpaying. Though I have no idea what Philadelphia would do with Walker.

[CuseCubFan69]

That's a decent backup plan gooney but I want a dominate one and the Cubs have the money to do so IMO.

 

SS - Furcal

CF - Bradley (I would put Murton there but I doubt Baker would)

1B - Lee

RF - Abreu/Dunn

3B - ARam

LF - Murton

C - Barrett

2B - Perez/Cedeno

 

I would trade Walker, Greenburg, Williams, Pinto, Guzman and Harvey for Abreu or Dunn and have the Phillies pay some of the contract.

 

Wow, now that's what I call overpaying. Though I have no idea what Philadelphia would do with Walker.

 

They could flip him for another need like the pen. Yeah, it is overpaying BbB and I see this as a window of oppurtunity to go for it and not get the Wilsons/Burnitz type players unless they are 4th OF's which I would love the Cubs to sign Burnitz to do if they could.

[soapy]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm starting to think it's the most logical route at this point. I'm assuming that Texas is going to shop some of their excess OF at this point. I'm also interested in what's going to happen in NY (Manny or no Manny?). I think a platoon of Floyd and Mench in RF could be pretty damn productive.

 

Floyd had a .915 OPS against RHP in 2005. .910 from 2002-2004.

 

Mench had a .980 OPS against LHP in 2005. .984 from 2002-2004.

 

Add into that whoever doesn't start is your first PH off the bench and you may be on to something. The question is, can you make these moves without losing Walker? If so, I think it's a great option.

[goonys evil twin]

At this point the best backup plan you can have is to get Floyd and Bradley, with Murton as 4th OF and keeping Walker at 2B. If they insist on dealing Walker, then they need to get Lugo, or failing that, take Matsui and his possible .330 OBP off the Mets hands and put him at 2B.

 

A Floyd/Mench platoon in RF probably isn't enough at this point, especially if they make the mistake of trading Walker and letting Neifi play more than a backup role.

[soapy]

At this point the best backup plan you can have is to get Floyd and Bradley, with Murton as 4th OF and keeping Walker at 2B. If they insist on dealing Walker, then they need to get Lugo, or failing that, take Matsui and his possible .330 OBP off the Mets hands and put him at 2B.

 

A Floyd/Mench platoon in RF probably isn't enough at this point, especially if they make the mistake of trading Walker and letting Neifi play more than a backup role.

 

If they trade Walker, I agree it's not enough. If they keep Walker, I think it is. Having said that, I'd gladly take Floyd and Bradley in the corners with Murton as the 4th OF (and starting for Floyd against LHP).