Beckett/Lowell traded to the Red Sox

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub. when you take your payroll down that low, you need prospects who have a great chance of panning out, which they just got.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[USSoccer]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

Ramirez's 2005 numbers bely his prospect ranking. If he were really the prospect he's been touted to be, why did the Red Sox waste $40m on Edgar Renteria when SS is Ramirez's natural position?

[HoopsCubs]

Poor Kevin Youkilis. The guy can't get a break. As soon as Bill Mueller's contract is done, the Red Sox trade for a player with 2 years left on his deal.

 

:cry:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

Ramirez's 2005 numbers bely his prospect ranking. If he were really the prospect he's been touted to be, why did the Red Sox waste $40m on Edgar Renteria when SS is Ramirez's natural position?

 

The same reason people want to get a quality CF even though we have Pie. The Major League club wants to compete, and no prospect is a sure thing.

[RynoRules]

Poor Kevin Youkilis. The guy can't get a break. As soon as Bill Mueller's contract is done, the Red Sox trade for a player with 2 years left on his deal.

 

:cry:

 

Could this mean - perish the thought - that the "Greek God of Walks" isn't as good as advertised :?: :!:

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

Ramirez's 2005 numbers bely his prospect ranking. If he were really the prospect he's been touted to be, why did the Red Sox waste $40m on Edgar Renteria when SS is Ramirez's natural position?

 

b/c ramirez is several years away offensively. defensively he can play at a high major league level already. the bat is still coming around. he's all of 21. :wink:

[Cubzfan64]

I didn't see anyone else ask this question...

 

Considering how quickly this deal was made, does anyone think perhaps this may have something to do with Theo's departure as far as "differences in philosophy" with Luchino? I realize people say what they "have to" say, but Theo always seemed to be extremely high on Hanley and Anibal Sanchez - perhaps Larry wanted to bargain a little of the potential future for another chance at a WS!!??

 

I don't feel the Marlins got screwed in this deal as much as others here think, but as in all trades, this one will be measured accurately a few years from now.

 

That said, Boston is really in the catbird seat right now - they have so many different directions they can go - do they resign Damon or free up money to spend elsewhere? Can they move Manny and his salary for more parts to their puzzle? Will they target a closer or hope Foulke comes back strong?

 

My guess is they will give Lowell a season at 3B and both Mueller and Millar will be gone starting next season.

 

Oh and last of all - as far as why Boston signed Renteria when they had their "can't miss" prospect Ramirez waiting in the wings - as Cub fans we should identify pretty closely with a GM who simply falls in love with a certain guy and Theo just thought the world of Renteria and wanted him signed at all costs.

[USSoccer]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

Ramirez's 2005 numbers bely his prospect ranking. If he were really the prospect he's been touted to be, why did the Red Sox waste $40m on Edgar Renteria when SS is Ramirez's natural position?

 

The same reason people want to get a quality CF even though we have Pie. The Major League club wants to compete, and no prospect is a sure thing.

 

The difference is that Boston's offense could have tolerated breaking in a rookie SS that wouldn't kill them with his glove. The Cubs have no such luxury.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Depending on the other moves the Marlins could make in selling off parts, this might not be a bad deal. They could conceivably put together a team with a lot of young talent in two or three years down the road. Ramirez is now penciled in at SS. Sanchez could be a nice young pitcher. They'll hang on to Wellingham and Dontrelle.

 

If they can get Petit along with other players from the Mets in a deal for Delgado, they'll be well on their way to restocking the team. Depending on what they might could get for Pierre, they could put together a very young but successful team in the near future.

[YearofDaCubs]

What a great deal for the Red Sox. I'm starting to think our top prospects dont compare to other team's top prospects.

[nolanwood]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub. when you take your payroll down that low, you need prospects who have a great chance of panning out, which they just got.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

I'd say the odds of Ramirez producing @ the star level would be 1/5

 

Sanchez, 1/9

 

With that being said, they could've gone after some more proven minor league talent who had remarkable seasons in '05 - and not just a bunch of hype. For that kinda deal, the fish should've gotten at least one major league caliber starter to help them out. Lowell isnt bad....has proven himself before and has that same potential....and Beckett is just entering his prime. Give him some of Moises' urine, and he would've thrown for 220 innings this year.

Edited November 22, 2005 by nolanwood

[GaborBako]

That is a very interesting move.

 

I'm still wondering who is orchestrating the Red Sox moves with no GM in place. Are they asking prospective GM's what they would do in their interviews, and then using those ideas?

 

I think they're using something similar to the Hendry Wheel of Misfortune:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/eriklj/wheelofmisfortune.jpg

 

 

:lol:

 

That image is terrific. Even better though in its original context.

http://www.desipio.com/2005/11/09/jim-hendrys-wheel-of-misfortune/

[E.J.]

That is a very interesting move.

 

I'm still wondering who is orchestrating the Red Sox moves with no GM in place. Are they asking prospective GM's what they would do in their interviews, and then using those ideas?

 

I think they're using something similar to the Hendry Wheel of Misfortune:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/eriklj/wheelofmisfortune.jpg

 

 

:lol:

 

That image is terrific. Even better though in its original context.

http://www.desipio.com/2005/11/09/jim-hendrys-wheel-of-misfortune/

 

Sorry. Didn't mean to make it seem like I made the picture. Just wanted to share. Hope the copyright police aren't coming after me. :roll:

[NorthsideAvenger]

2 things...

 

1) Does this affect us getting Burnett at all? Are we still in that running?

 

2) How do the Yankees counter?

 

That's what I am waiting for. You know Steinbrenner is :evil: :x right now. And you know Steinbrenner won't allow Boston to have a "moment in the sun". And regardless of the newfound power Cashman seems to have, I suspect either Brian Giles, Johnny Damon, or AJ Burnett will be a Yankee within 48 hours.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub. when you take your payroll down that low, you need prospects who have a great chance of panning out, which they just got.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

I'd say the odds of Ramirez producing @ the star level would be 1/5

 

Sanchez, 1/9

 

With that being said, they could've gone after some more proven minor league talent who had remarkable seasons in '05 - and not just a bunch of hype. For that kinda deal, the fish should've gotten at least one major league caliber starter to help them out. Lowell isnt bad....has proven himself before and has that same potential....and Beckett is just entering his prime. Give him some of Moises' urine, and he would've thrown for 220 innings this year.

 

What were the fish supposed to do? Keep Beckett? They can't. He's due the big bucks coming up and they can't afford Willis, Cabrera, and Beckett. One of them was the odd man out, and Beckett and his blisters (and shoulder problems) is the odd man out. They certainly can't afford to trade Beckett for another star due large dollars in the next 2-4 years.

 

it's not the organizations fault the fans in Florida don't show.

 

you may think ramirez has low odds of making it, but the scouts call him a future all-star. :wink:

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Are they going to stick Ramirez at SS right away? This isn't a terrible deal for the Fish. Beckett still hasn't been injury free for a season, and IMO there's a good shot that Ramirez winds up a better player for his position than Lowell, maybe even as soon as next year. Sanchez looks solid too.

 

I still think the Fish should have gotten more - say, Hanley and Lester.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Are they going to stick Ramirez at SS right away? This isn't a terrible deal for the Fish. Beckett still hasn't been injury free for a season, and IMO there's a good shot that Ramirez winds up a better player for his position than Lowell, maybe even as soon as next year. Sanchez looks solid too.

 

I still think the Fish should have gotten more - say, Hanley and Lester.

 

Well yeah, but Ramirez and Sanchez is still a pair of quality prospects. This isn't Ramirez for Hill and Bruback, which is the impression I'm getting reading parts of this thread.

[nolanwood]

why are people saying the marlins got robbed? they didn't. they just got two top 75 prospects. ramirez is probably the top prospect in the sox org. and sanchez is just a little below papelbon and lester (3rd best pitcher in that org.).

 

the marlins just got two cheap players who will likely produce very well at the major league level for bottom dollar. who knows what the PTBNL is, but it's probably not some scrub. when you take your payroll down that low, you need prospects who have a great chance of panning out, which they just got.

 

beckett is good only if healthy. lowell is a financial anchor. the marlins aren't sending a ton of cash as they don't have it to give.

 

I'd say the odds of Ramirez producing @ the star level would be 1/5

 

Sanchez, 1/9

 

With that being said, they could've gone after some more proven minor league talent who had remarkable seasons in '05 - and not just a bunch of hype. For that kinda deal, the fish should've gotten at least one major league caliber starter to help them out. Lowell isnt bad....has proven himself before and has that same potential....and Beckett is just entering his prime. Give him some of Moises' urine, and he would've thrown for 220 innings this year.

 

What were the fish supposed to do? Keep Beckett? They can't. He's due the big bucks coming up and they can't afford Willis, Cabrera, and Beckett. One of them was the odd man out, and Beckett and his blisters (and shoulder problems) is the odd man out. They certainly can't afford to trade Beckett for another star due large dollars in the next 2-4 years.

 

it's not the organizations fault the fans in Florida don't show.

 

you may think ramirez has low odds of making it, but the scouts call him a future all-star. :wink:

 

 

Yeah, I know - its a shame they cant draw half a stadium's worth of fans in Florida. That team has been pretty impressive year in / year out. I just think they could've received more in return if they played the market better and held out. And in regards to Ramirez, I heard more hype about him before his 05 #'s.... I'm glad to see Beckett outta the NL, though. Thats' for sure!

[E.J.]

It looks like ESPN revised it's article and the Red Sox are taking on Lowell's entire contract. Earlier in the day it said that the Marlins were including cash in the deal.

 

Link

 

The Red Sox have agreed to take on all $18 million of the money owed to Lowell over the next two seasons, a baseball official with knowledge of the discussions told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.

[CubinNY]

Depending on the other moves the Marlins could make in selling off parts, this might not be a bad deal. They could conceivably put together a team with a lot of young talent in two or three years down the road. Ramirez is now penciled in at SS. Sanchez could be a nice young pitcher. They'll hang on to Wellingham and Dontrelle.

 

If they can get Petit along with other players from the Mets in a deal for Delgado, they'll be well on their way to restocking the team. Depending on what they might could get for Pierre, they could put together a very young but successful team in the near future.

 

I agree Vance,

 

Bienfest is building for the future. I think the future also may be the LasVegas Gamblers and a team flush with cash. Unless Loria finds a way to screw it all up.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

What a great deal for the Red Sox. I'm starting to think our top prospects dont compare to other team's top prospects.

 

We don't have "can't miss prospects," but the overall level of talent of our system is fairly high. Of course that means we might get a lot of minimal contributors at the ML level and no studs. I'm really hoping Murton pans out for us.

[Bull]

Are they going to stick Ramirez at SS right away? This isn't a terrible deal for the Fish. Beckett still hasn't been injury free for a season, and IMO there's a good shot that Ramirez winds up a better player for his position than Lowell, maybe even as soon as next year. Sanchez looks solid too.

 

I still think the Fish should have gotten more - say, Hanley and Lester.

 

Well yeah, but Ramirez and Sanchez is still a pair of quality prospects. This isn't Ramirez for Hill and Bruback, which is the impression I'm getting reading parts of this thread.

 

An under acheiving can't miss middle infield prospect and a good but not "A+" pitching prospect for a questionable third baseman. (and don't kid yourself, at the time of the trade, Aramis was very questionable.

link

 

You're right!! The Marlins are throwing in a frontline pitcher and cash too! The Pie-Rats threw in Kenny Lofton.

[goonys evil twin]

Why are people dissing Ramirez? He's Boston's Felix Pie. He's only 21, plays a premium position, has a career minor league average over .300, with an OBP around .350-.360 and a SLG of .442. He's got a much better K/BB, is a more prolific and efficient base stealer and has proven himself with more pro at bats.

[Quakers]

Yeah, but health is always a big if with P prospects. Plus, it's not as if Ramirez is a can't miss guy. They might end up with nothing for Beckett in a worst case scenario.

 

Beinfest is a shrewd GM. He plucked Willis away from us. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt on this deal. Sanchez is going to be good. Beckett's amazing, but he hasn't been injury free himself either.

 

I have to agree with this post. Admittedly it is a today for tomorrow trade, but Florida has impressed me over the years as a team that can judge talent. Both up-and-coming and when that talent has reached its peak. I think both teams will win from this trade, but in the long run Florida will be happy.

[Magnetic Curses]

Are they going to stick Ramirez at SS right away? This isn't a terrible deal for the Fish. Beckett still hasn't been injury free for a season, and IMO there's a good shot that Ramirez winds up a better player for his position than Lowell, maybe even as soon as next year. Sanchez looks solid too.

 

I still think the Fish should have gotten more - say, Hanley and Lester.

 

Well yeah, but Ramirez and Sanchez is still a pair of quality prospects. This isn't Ramirez for Hill and Bruback, which is the impression I'm getting reading parts of this thread.

 

An under acheiving can't miss middle infield prospect and a good but not "A+" pitching prospect for a questionable third baseman. (and don't kid yourself, at the time of the trade, Aramis was very questionable.

link

 

You're right!! The Marlins are throwing in a frontline pitcher and cash too! The Pie-Rats threw in Kenny Lofton.

 

i wouldn't mention bruback and "A+" in the same sentence.