Cedeno at Shortstop

[The Voice of Reason]

Appears to have great potential and a lot of you guys are advocating using him as a much cheaper alternative than Furcal. But aren't you putting a lot faith in a guy than has only played 29 games in his career as a major league shortstop and has all of 80 at bats?

 

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start. I fear we would end up with Neifi back as shortstop.

 

Thoughts?

[BigbadB]

Appears to have great potential and a lot of you guys are advocating using him as a much cheaper alternative than Furcal. But aren't you putting a lot faith in a guy than has only played 29 games in his career as a major league shortstop and has all of 80 at bats?

 

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start. I fear we would end up with Neifi back as shortstop.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'd be fine with it if Giles was in center, Pierre, Bradley or Wilkerson was in CF and Walker was at 2nd.

[goonys evil twin]

If you took that approach with every kid, you've never break in anybody, and that's exactly why the Cubs have sucked so bad for so long. They keep plugging holes with outsiders, which is more costly and less efficient.

 

If you solidify the rest of the team, it almost doesn't matter what you get from the $350,000 kid.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

[synergy]

come on....you don't know any of our past supposed "can't miss prospects"? I'll just rattle a few out that were supposedhoi to be. Hee Seop Choi, Jerome Walton, Earl Cunningham, Corey Patterson, Kevin Orie, Glenallen Hill, Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Juan Cruz, and the list goes on and on. Cubs farm system have produced good arms from time to time such as Prior and Zambrano, but they don't have any good positional prospects. Pie is supposed to be the next "the one". Yet, if you watch any of his games in the winter league, he is just riding the bench because he's batting .217 or something like that. Not to say he isn't good, he is but he's not ready to be rushed up to the major leagues. We did it to Patterson, and we shouldn't do it to Pie. He'll probably need another year or two. Pie still has horrible discipline at the plate and has a long loopy swing. He is fast though and a great defensive talent. A big plus is he's a consummate winner....he has won in all levels of minor league and that certain intangible is what makes this kid special. It's the same intangible that Derek Jeter has. We should continue to groom him and not rush him up. From all the past prospects, I really think Pie can succeed the most at ML level in a year or two.

[CUBZ99]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Cedeno is supposedly starting at 2B, where it will have more of an offensive backlash on the team if he tanks.

 

This organization is absolutely [expletive]. Cedeno is going to start over Neifi? Please. If my choice is between Neifi and Cedeno, I'll take Cedeno. Even if he has a horrible year, that's 500+ ABs he can learn from. I can't imagine him being much worse than Neifi. Just pencil him as 8th in the lineup and shore up the OF.

 

*I'm assuming Walker is going to be traded like all the beat reporters are indicating.

[CubinNY]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Too bad they can't evaluate the talent before they draft.

[Andy]

Choi and Cruz were especially disappointing. Cruz had a nice September in 2001 and Choi did the same in 2002 and then they proceeded to suck the following seasons when given opportunities. I never thought much of Bobby Hill.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Cedeno didn't deserve a shot? This is ridiculous. The reasoning goes, player X doesn't deserve a shot but he could start next year, but the vet will start in front of player X b/c he doesn't have the ABs to tell if he is a sure thing or not. Nice and circular.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Too bad they can't evaluate the talent before they draft.

 

if they're so good at evaluating talent, we'd have productive young position players in Wrigley more than once every blue moon.

[Neuby]

come on....you don't know any of our past supposed "can't miss prospects"? I'll just rattle a few out that were supposedhoi to be. Hee Seop Choi, Jerome Walton, Earl Cunningham, Corey Patterson, Kevin Orie, Glenallen Hill, Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Juan Cruz, and the list goes on and on. Cubs farm system have produced good arms from time to time such as Prior and Zambrano, but they don't have any good positional prospects. Pie is supposed to be the next "the one". Yet, if you watch any of his games in the winter league, he is just riding the bench because he's batting .217 or something like that. Not to say he isn't good, he is but he's not ready to be rushed up to the major leagues. We did it to Patterson, and we shouldn't do it to Pie. He'll probably need another year or two. Pie still has horrible discipline at the plate and has a long loopy swing. He is fast though and a great defensive talent. A big plus is he's a consummate winner....he has won in all levels of minor league and that certain intangible is what makes this kid special. It's the same intangible that Derek Jeter has. We should continue to groom him and not rush him up. From all the past prospects, I really think Pie can succeed the most at ML level in a year or two.

 

don't forget Mike Harkey, Damon Berryhill, Lance Dickson, David Kelton, to some more that either lacked talent or injurie troubles.

[YearofDaCubs]

According to reports coming in Cedeno hasn't played a lick of 2B this offseason.

[CUBZ99]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Cedeno didn't deserve a shot? This is ridiculous. The reasoning goes, player X doesn't deserve a shot but he could start next year, but the vet will start in front of player X b/c he doesn't have the ABs to tell if he is a sure thing or not. Nice and circular.

 

Cedeno was hurt at the end of the season, which prevented even speculating about whether Cedeno would have played.

 

Has anybody seen his numbers in Winter ball so far? I hope that if Hendry takes a chance with Cedeno, he has a plan B available (Beside Neifi)

[Keener98]

come on....you don't know any of our past supposed "can't miss prospects"? I'll just rattle a few out that were supposedhoi to be. Hee Seop Choi, Jerome Walton, Earl Cunningham, Corey Patterson, Kevin Orie, Glenallen Hill, Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Juan Cruz, and the list goes on and on. Cubs farm system have produced good arms from time to time such as Prior and Zambrano, but they don't have any good positional prospects. Pie is supposed to be the next "the one". Yet, if you watch any of his games in the winter league, he is just riding the bench because he's batting .217 or something like that. Not to say he isn't good, he is but he's not ready to be rushed up to the major leagues. We did it to Patterson, and we shouldn't do it to Pie. He'll probably need another year or two. Pie still has horrible discipline at the plate and has a long loopy swing. He is fast though and a great defensive talent. A big plus is he's a consummate winner....he has won in all levels of minor league and that certain intangible is what makes this kid special. It's the same intangible that Derek Jeter has. We should continue to groom him and not rush him up. From all the past prospects, I really think Pie can succeed the most at ML level in a year or two.

 

Glenallen Hill was not a cant miss prospect for the Cubs. He wasnt even developed in the Cubs farm system. Jason Dubois was not a cant miss prospect either. If he was a "cant miss" then the Cubs would have never let him go to Toronto.

[CUBZ99]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Too bad they can't evaluate the talent before they draft.

 

if they're so good at evaluating talent, we'd have productive young position players in Wrigley more than once every blue moon.

 

It is not like they are wasting draft picks or not making use of the minor league system. If you look at the roster the top two offensive players are a direct result of the farm system. Choi -- Lee, and Hill and Bruback -- Ramirez. Also, you have 4/5 of your starting rotation all products of the farm system. Not too shabby.

[CubinNY]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Too bad they can't evaluate the talent before they draft.

 

if they're so good at evaluating talent, we'd have productive young position players in Wrigley more than once every blue moon.

 

It is not like they are wasting draft picks or not making use of the minor league system. If you look at the roster the top two offensive players are a direct result of the farm system. Choi -- Lee, and Hill and Bruback -- Ramirez. Also, you have 4/5 of your starting rotation all products of the farm system. Not too shabby.

 

I always love how people like to point to Lee and Aramis as instances where Hendry used the farm hands to make a smart trade. Nothing could be furthrer from the truth.

 

Aramis was a hurt palyer comming off a terrible year with a very poor attitude when he came to Chicago in a salary dump move.

 

Lee fell to Hendry b/c Baltimore couldn't work out a long term contract for Lee and Florida was desperate to move his salary.

 

The only instance I can think of where Hendry made a smart trade was with Nomar and he had his hand held by Theo.

[Andy]

I always love how people like to point to Lee and Aramis as instances where Hendry used the farm hands to make a smart trade. Nothing could be furthrer from the truth.

 

Aramis was a hurt palyer comming off a terrible year with a very poor attitude when he came to Chicago in a salary dump move.

 

Lee fell to Hendry b/c Baltimore couldn't work out a long term contract for Lee and Florida was desperate to move his salary.

 

The only instance I can think of where Hendry made a smart trade was with Nomar and he had his hand held by Theo.

Yes, NY, Hendry was helped along in those trades, but that doesn't change the fact that these guys helped us land our best offensive players.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I always love how people like to point to Lee and Aramis as instances where Hendry used the farm hands to make a smart trade. Nothing could be furthrer from the truth.

 

Aramis was a hurt palyer comming off a terrible year with a very poor attitude when he came to Chicago in a salary dump move.

 

Lee fell to Hendry b/c Baltimore couldn't work out a long term contract for Lee and Florida was desperate to move his salary.

 

The only instance I can think of where Hendry made a smart trade was with Nomar and he had his hand held by Theo.

Yes, NY, Hendry was helped along in those trades, but that doesn't change the fact that these guys helped us land our best offensive players.

 

...who both aren't even close to making the league minimum. we have a 100M team that plays far below its payroll b/c we have vets getting 2.5M/year for less production than a capable minor leaguer would give us, not to mention the value of having a home grown position player making the league minimum.

 

i don't mind trading for Ramirez and Lee, but in the long run, we need to have one or two guys making the league minimum that aren't chilling in the bullpen. it frees up a lot of cash. having murton in LF instead of some 4-5M scrub is a big difference.

[CubinNY]

I always love how people like to point to Lee and Aramis as instances where Hendry used the farm hands to make a smart trade. Nothing could be furthrer from the truth.

 

Aramis was a hurt palyer comming off a terrible year with a very poor attitude when he came to Chicago in a salary dump move.

 

Lee fell to Hendry b/c Baltimore couldn't work out a long term contract for Lee and Florida was desperate to move his salary.

 

The only instance I can think of where Hendry made a smart trade was with Nomar and he had his hand held by Theo.

Yes, NY, Hendry was helped along in those trades, but that doesn't change the fact that these guys helped us land our best offensive players.

 

He also traded Willis for Alf or Clement. You can take your pick of which.

[wade]

Appears to have great potential and a lot of you guys are advocating using him as a much cheaper alternative than Furcal. But aren't you putting a lot faith in a guy than has only played 29 games in his career as a major league shortstop and has all of 80 at bats?

 

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start. I fear we would end up with Neifi back as shortstop.

 

Thoughts?

 

So, do we totally dismiss a player's minor league stats? Or what the club's scouts think of a player?

 

It would certainly be a gamble letting Cedeno start at short in 2006. But if that gamble meant 10 million dollars toward upgrading serious deficiencies somewhere else, it makes sense.

 

A lot of people advocating Cedeno over Furcal are wanting Giles over what they fear will be an average or maybe even below average player in right field. Some are suggesting the club spend the extra dough on a top of the rotation pitcher. Either way, it's not like people that want Cedeno are saying he's better than Furcal, they're just saying he's not 9.6 million dollars worse.

 

Now, your last sentance I agree with just because I fear Neifi will be starting at either SS or 2B due to the coach and the contract he just signed.

[CubinNY]

Appears to have great potential and a lot of you guys are advocating using him as a much cheaper alternative than Furcal. But aren't you putting a lot faith in a guy than has only played 29 games in his career as a major league shortstop and has all of 80 at bats?

 

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start. I fear we would end up with Neifi back as shortstop.

 

Thoughts?

 

So, do we totally dismiss a player's minor league stats? Or what the club's scouts think of a player?

 

It would certainly be a gamble letting Cedeno start at short in 2006. But if that gamble meant 10 million dollars toward upgrading serious deficiencies somewhere else, it makes sense.

 

A lot of people advocating Cedeno over Furcal are wanting Giles over what they fear will be an average or maybe even below average player in right field. Some are suggesting the club spend the extra dough on a top of the rotation pitcher. Either way, it's not like people that want Cedeno are saying he's better than Furcal, they're just saying he's not 9.6 million dollars worse.

 

Now, your last sentance I agree with just because I fear Neifi will be starting at either SS or 2B due to the coach and the contract he just signed.

 

Nice. The above nicely sums up in three well written paragraph every post I've made in transactions in the past three weeks. Well done.

[UBlink]

Cedeno was hurt at the end of the season, which prevented even speculating about whether Cedeno would have played.

 

Has anybody seen his numbers in Winter ball so far? I hope that if Hendry takes a chance with Cedeno, he has a plan B available (Beside Neifi)

 

From the Minor Leaugue forum:

 

 

Premium Link

 

Link

 

Stats (I think through last Sunday)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BATEADOR              AVE JJ VB CA  H BA H2 H3 HR CI BB SO SH SF GP BR OR SLG OBP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CEDENO RONNY (TIGR)  .237 10 38  4  9 11  2  0  0  2  2  7  0  1  1  0  1.289.286
GREENBERG ADAM (CARI).289 26 90 16 26 40  6  1  2 12  8 24  1  1  2  2  3.444.356

 

The titles are in Spanish, but you can figure it out. Ronny got a later start, but has played regularly since he did start.

[CUBZ99]

The Cubs have a long history of hot September call-ups and "can't miss" propects that fizzled over the long run when given a chance to start.

Such as?

 

And how many ABs did they get in Chicago?

 

The Cubs haven't had any recent call ups that deserved a shot. At least Hendry and Hughes seem to be able to evaluate minor league talent.

 

Too bad they can't evaluate the talent before they draft.

 

if they're so good at evaluating talent, we'd have productive young position players in Wrigley more than once every blue moon.

 

It is not like they are wasting draft picks or not making use of the minor league system. If you look at the roster the top two offensive players are a direct result of the farm system. Choi -- Lee, and Hill and Bruback -- Ramirez. Also, you have 4/5 of your starting rotation all products of the farm system. Not too shabby.

 

I always love how people like to point to Lee and Aramis as instances where Hendry used the farm hands to make a smart trade. Nothing could be furthrer from the truth.

 

Aramis was a hurt palyer comming off a terrible year with a very poor attitude when he came to Chicago in a salary dump move.

 

Lee fell to Hendry b/c Baltimore couldn't work out a long term contract for Lee and Florida was desperate to move his salary.

 

The only instance I can think of where Hendry made a smart trade was with Nomar and he had his hand held by Theo.

 

So Hendry didn't make the trade for Aramis and DLee?? I think your confused, because those trades were made, and Hendry made them.