A Cub fan's worst nightmare...

[CoolHandLuke]

If the white sox won at least that tool Guillen would supposedly quit.

[stitchface]

root for the white sox and its not close. how can you cheer for a team whose fans want curtain calls for first inning solo homers? Plus, logic would suggest if the team that had gone the 3rd longest without a world series win won, then the team that had gone the 2nd longest . . .

[Soul]

Easiest World Series to figure out EVER, and just about the furthest thing from a Cub nightmare that you can have in a season where your most hated rival makes the World Series.

 

Root for the White Sox. Hands down.

 

Yeah, their fans are obnoxious and we'd never hear the end of it from them, but think about it: do we ever hear the end of it from them *anyway*???????

 

Plus, they're Bear fans don't forget that. It's still Chicago, we're still the biggest city in the country that the East and West coast media buffons ignore, and we still as a CITY deserve much better than what we have seen from our baseball teams over the past 100 years.

 

White Sox all the way. Send the Cards home in shame just like the BoSox did last year.

 

Most illuminating comment about the White Sox, a 99-win ballclub who have basically torn up the league ALL SEASON with the exception of a slip in August/early September: Chris Berman, during today's game, "Well, America----meet the White Sox!!"

 

It's early October and America finally gets to "meet the White Sox?!?" Huh? :shock: If that doesn't tell you of the DELIBERATE, SYSTEMATIC refusal to acknowledge Chicago that goes on in the national media then nothing ever will.

[Andy]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

[stitchface]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

 

Seriously, 70 percent of the people celebrating will be people who were cub fans in march.

[Soul]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

 

If it happens that the White Sox are the winners of the first World Series in Chicago in nearly a century, just be sure you place the blame squarely where it belongs.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

 

Blame our Cubs. The team that really doesn't care about winning anyway. The team that would rather put it's energy into creative ways of expanding Wrigley Field and opening up more "ticket agencies" so they can rape the Chicago public out of more cash than actually put a winning product on the field.

 

Blame the Cubs. And then try to be happy for your city, who finally has a winner after nearly 100 years. Afterwards, be sure to DEMAND better from our organization by refusing to buy tickets & merchandise until a winner is placed on the field.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

 

If it happens that the White Sox are the winners of the first World Series in Chicago in nearly a century, just be sure you place the blame squarely where it belongs.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

 

Blame our Cubs. The team that really doesn't care about winning anyway. The team that would rather put it's energy into creative ways of expanding Wrigley Field and opening up more "ticket agencies" so they can rape the Chicago public out of more cash than actually put a winning product on the field.

 

Blame the Cubs. And then try to be happy for your city, who finally has a winner after nearly 100 years. Afterwards, be sure to DEMAND better from our organization by refusing to buy tickets & merchandise until a winner is placed on the field.

 

I don't think I agree with a single word of this post.

[Soul]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

 

If it happens that the White Sox are the winners of the first World Series in Chicago in nearly a century, just be sure you place the blame squarely where it belongs.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

 

Blame our Cubs. The team that really doesn't care about winning anyway. The team that would rather put it's energy into creative ways of expanding Wrigley Field and opening up more "ticket agencies" so they can rape the Chicago public out of more cash than actually put a winning product on the field.

 

Blame the Cubs. And then try to be happy for your city, who finally has a winner after nearly 100 years. Afterwards, be sure to DEMAND better from our organization by refusing to buy tickets & merchandise until a winner is placed on the field.

 

I don't think I agree with a single word of this post.

 

Yeah, most Cub fans can't bring themselves to accept how our organization has betrayed the trust the fans have placed in it.

 

The truth is undeniable. The White Sox have made the moves, brought in & developed the players, and are now on solid ground for a World Series run. The Cubs have not, and are not close to the Series.

 

You may not like it. God knows, I sure don't. I'm pretty mad about it. But it is true. And then, to watch them tear up Wrigley and probably raise ticket prices once again when they should be worried about putting together a winner. It makes me sick. It should make everyone here sick.

[imb]

hahaha kenny williams is no great gm, hell, he's no hendry, and i dont even like hendry that much

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

 

If it happens that the White Sox are the winners of the first World Series in Chicago in nearly a century, just be sure you place the blame squarely where it belongs.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

 

Blame our Cubs. The team that really doesn't care about winning anyway. The team that would rather put it's energy into creative ways of expanding Wrigley Field and opening up more "ticket agencies" so they can rape the Chicago public out of more cash than actually put a winning product on the field.

 

Blame the Cubs. And then try to be happy for your city, who finally has a winner after nearly 100 years. Afterwards, be sure to DEMAND better from our organization by refusing to buy tickets & merchandise until a winner is placed on the field.

 

I don't think I agree with a single word of this post.

 

Yeah, most Cub fans can't bring themselves to accept how our organization has betrayed the trust the fans have placed in it.

 

The truth is undeniable. The White Sox have made the moves, brought in & developed the players, and are now on solid ground for a World Series run. The Cubs have not, and are not close to the Series.

 

You may not like it. God knows, I sure don't. I'm pretty mad about it. But it is true. And then, to watch them tear up Wrigley and probably raise ticket prices once again when they should be worried about putting together a winner. It makes me sick. It should make everyone here sick.

 

Ken Williams is not a *GREAT* General Manager. The only reason the White Sox are in the playoffs is because they got ridiculous pitching performances for a portion of the season. The claim that they've somehow been more successful in developing players is absurd. Who's homegrown on their team? Buehrle, Garland, Crede, Rowand, McCarthy and some bullpen arms? How is that miles ahead of Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, Murton, Cedeno, and some bullpen arms? Both teams used their system to bring in players. Then of course there's the always enjoyable rhetoric that the Trib doesn't care about winning. They've put up the payroll necessary, and that's all they can be held accountable for.

[Soul]

hahaha kenny williams is no great gm, hell, he's no hendry, and i dont even like hendry that much

 

Why is he not great? Because he doesn't fit the mold of a great GM? Help me out here.

 

99 wins. World Series run. Swept the World Series champs. Tons of moves in the offseason that have panned out. How is he *NOT* great?

 

The facts would seem to be against you....

[Andy]

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

Minor league system comment -- let's take a look at the important ChiSox this year:

 

Rotation -

 

El Duque - not homegrown

Garland - not (entirely) homegrown

Buehrle - homegrown

Contreras - not homegrown

Garcia - not homegrown

 

Lineup:

 

Podsednik - not homegrown

Iguchi - not homegrown

Dye - not homegrown

Konerko - not homegrown

Everett - not homegrown

Rowand - homegrown

Pierzynski - not homegrown

Crede - homegrown

Uribe - not homegrown

 

No one in the bullpen except Jenks came from the minors.

 

So in total you have Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, and if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, Jon Garland. Four players does not constitute a great minor league system. The Cubs had more ROOKIES play regularly this season from their system than the White Sox have total homegrown talent on their whole playoff roster.

 

As for the great GM comment:

 

Podsednik, besides his 70 steals, had a very below-average year last year. His OBP was a very non-leadoff-hitter-like .313. In my opinion, the Lee-for-Podsednik deal should have hurt the Sox offense more than it did and that is luck.

 

Dye had his best year in five years this season. Last year he was no better than Preston Wilson and now he hits 30 homers and drops his K's by 30. Also not a great move, but a move that panned out.

 

Carl Everett didn't even have a good year. How the Cubs miss the playoffs with Ramirez/Burnitz in the five hole and the Sox make it with this scrub is beyond me.

 

Pierzynski had his best year ever this season, and much better than with a better offense (SF) last year. How that panned out is beyond me.

 

Juan Uribe was worth nothing before he came to the White Sox. Somehow he has hit 39 homers over the last two seasons after doing absolutely nothing with the Coors-habitated Rockies. Also dumb luck.

 

Also you throw in Contreras and Freddy both having career years, and Garland inexplicably having one of the greatest first halves in the history of baseball, and Kenny Williams is being made to look a lot smarter than he really is with this team.

[Brendan]

i'd root for a meteor strike.

[imb]

hahaha kenny williams is no great gm, hell, he's no hendry, and i dont even like hendry that much

 

Why is he not great? Because he doesn't fit the mold of a great GM? Help me out here.

 

99 wins. World Series run. Swept the World Series champs. Tons of moves in the offseason that have panned out. How is he *NOT* great?

 

The facts would seem to be against you....

 

What has he done that was so great? His team winning a bunch of games doesnt make him a great gm.

[Soul]

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

 

If it happens that the White Sox are the winners of the first World Series in Chicago in nearly a century, just be sure you place the blame squarely where it belongs.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

 

Blame our Cubs. The team that really doesn't care about winning anyway. The team that would rather put it's energy into creative ways of expanding Wrigley Field and opening up more "ticket agencies" so they can rape the Chicago public out of more cash than actually put a winning product on the field.

 

Blame the Cubs. And then try to be happy for your city, who finally has a winner after nearly 100 years. Afterwards, be sure to DEMAND better from our organization by refusing to buy tickets & merchandise until a winner is placed on the field.

 

I don't think I agree with a single word of this post.

 

Yeah, most Cub fans can't bring themselves to accept how our organization has betrayed the trust the fans have placed in it.

 

The truth is undeniable. The White Sox have made the moves, brought in & developed the players, and are now on solid ground for a World Series run. The Cubs have not, and are not close to the Series.

 

You may not like it. God knows, I sure don't. I'm pretty mad about it. But it is true. And then, to watch them tear up Wrigley and probably raise ticket prices once again when they should be worried about putting together a winner. It makes me sick. It should make everyone here sick.

 

Ken Williams is not a *GREAT* General Manager. The only reason the White Sox are in the playoffs is because they got ridiculous pitching performances for a portion of the season. The claim that they've somehow been more successful in developing players is absurd. Who's homegrown on their team? Buehrle, Garland, Crede, Rowand, McCarthy and some bullpen arms? How is that miles ahead of Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, Murton, Cedeno, and some bullpen arms? Both teams used their system to bring in players. Then of course there's the always enjoyable rhetoric that the Trib doesn't care about winning. They've put up the payroll necessary, and that's all they can be held accountable for.

 

Wow, that's alot of sour grapes about Kenny Williams man. Look at the way he has pieced together a ballclub that fits Guillen's mold. His homegrown players have actually panned out and are contributing. His free agent acquisitions have been marvelous. Uribe. Iguchi. Pierzynski. Dye.

 

You are seriously going to compare Crede and Rowand to Patterson (the biggest crash-and-burn failure in recent memory) and two September callups? :shock: That's borderline ridiculous. As for the pitchers: may be a wash. But you are ignoring the lack of position talent coming from our minor league system for......oh....the last 20 YEARS.

 

No sir. Kenny Williams has been amazing. Maybe Hendry has it in him to be a great GM too. Hey man, I don't know. But calling Kenny Williams less than stellar after what he has accomplished on far less money than the Cubs sounds like nothing more than sour grapes to me.

[Soul]

hahaha kenny williams is no great gm, hell, he's no hendry, and i dont even like hendry that much

 

Why is he not great? Because he doesn't fit the mold of a great GM? Help me out here.

 

99 wins. World Series run. Swept the World Series champs. Tons of moves in the offseason that have panned out. How is he *NOT* great?

 

The facts would seem to be against you....

 

What has he done that was so great? His team winning a bunch of games doesnt make him a great gm.

 

Oh, he's only put together the best team in the American league. In my book, that counts for something. If winning a bunch of games doesn't make you a great GM, then what does? That's kind of the whole point.

[imb]

The White Sox just seem like a bad team that is winning despite themselves. If they go 81-81 next year, is he still so great? It takes more than one fluke year for me to call someone a great gm. After 2003, everyone was ready to throw a parade for Hendry, and now most people are ready to run him out of town.

[Andy]

hahaha kenny williams is no great gm, hell, he's no hendry, and i dont even like hendry that much

 

Why is he not great? Because he doesn't fit the mold of a great GM? Help me out here.

 

99 wins. World Series run. Swept the World Series champs. Tons of moves in the offseason that have panned out. How is he *NOT* great?

 

The facts would seem to be against you....

 

What has he done that was so great? His team winning a bunch of games doesnt make him a great gm.

 

Oh, he's only put together the best team in the American league. In my book, that counts for something. If winning a bunch of games doesn't make you a great GM, then what does? That's kind of the whole point.

 

Kenny Williams didn't do anything. He put a team out there that was actually WORSE than last year's team and they flukily won with some help from about 15 players on the team having career years at once, throwing in some opponents choking numerous times (witness the last two BoSox games), and a dash of a former no-good drunk in Jenks suddenly becoming just as good a closer as Hermanson, who had a complete fluke season after years of mediocrity as a reliever.

[Soul]

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

Minor league system comment -- let's take a look at the important ChiSox this year:

 

Rotation -

 

El Duque - not homegrown

Garland - not (entirely) homegrown

Buehrle - homegrown

Contreras - not homegrown

Garcia - not homegrown

 

Lineup:

 

Podsednik - not homegrown

Iguchi - not homegrown

Dye - not homegrown

Konerko - not homegrown

Everett - not homegrown

Rowand - homegrown

Pierzynski - not homegrown

Crede - homegrown

Uribe - not homegrown

 

No one in the bullpen except Jenks came from the minors.

 

So in total you have Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, and if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, Jon Garland. Four players does not constitute a great minor league system. The Cubs had more ROOKIES play regularly this season from their system than the White Sox have total homegrown talent on their whole playoff roster.

 

As for the great GM comment:

 

Podsednik, besides his 70 steals, had a very below-average year last year. His OBP was a very non-leadoff-hitter-like .313. In my opinion, the Lee-for-Podsednik deal should have hurt the Sox offense more than it did and that is luck.

 

Dye had his best year in five years this season. Last year he was no better than Preston Wilson and now he hits 30 homers and drops his K's by 30. Also not a great move, but a move that panned out.

 

Carl Everett didn't even have a good year. How the Cubs miss the playoffs with Ramirez/Burnitz in the five hole and the Sox make it with this scrub is beyond me.

 

Pierzynski had his best year ever this season, and much better than with a better offense (SF) last year. How that panned out is beyond me.

 

Juan Uribe was worth nothing before he came to the White Sox. Somehow he has hit 39 homers over the last two seasons after doing absolutely nothing with the Coors-habitated Rockies. Also dumb luck.

 

Also you throw in Contreras and Freddy both having career years, and Garland inexplicably having one of the greatest first halves in the history of baseball, and Kenny Williams is being made to look a lot smarter than he really is with this team.

 

Yeah, well at least their minor league system (which I did NOT call great, by the way) is producing position talent that plays at the major league level. Ours doesn't.

 

I don't care about player stats. TEAM WINS. That's the goal. Do yourself a favor and forget individual player stats. And forget about if players are having "career years" or not as a reason why the team isn't really all that good. The fact is, they ARE having career years for the White Sox. That should tell you something, and it isn't luck.

 

When a team wins 99 games and sweeps the World Series champs on their way to the ALCS, player stats, career years--all worthless. They play, and they win games. And that's all that matters. Kenny Williams has been the author of that from beginning to end.

 

I refuse to belittle the accomplishments of the South Side team just because I'm a Cub fan. What's happening over there is very, very special.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wow, that's alot of sour grapes about Kenny Williams man. Look at the way he has pieced together a ballclub that fits Guillen's mold. His homegrown players have actually panned out and are contributing. His free agent acquisitions have been marvelous. Uribe. Iguchi. Pierzynski. Dye.

 

That's not marvelous, that's mediocre. Walker > Iguchi, Barrett > Pierzynski, Burnitz > Podsednik. Uribe barely had a higher OBP than Neifi. It's no different than Hendry's moves, probably worse. I'll say it again, unreal pitching while they built that divisional lead is why the Sox are in the playoffs. Not because of Williams, Guillen, Podsednik, the way they play, or anything else.

 

You are seriously going to compare Crede and Rowand to Patterson (the biggest crash-and-burn failure in recent memory) and two September callups? :shock: That's borderline ridiculous. As for the pitchers: may be a wash. But you are ignoring the lack of position talent coming from our minor league system for......oh....the last 20 YEARS.

 

Take a look at Crede's numbers, remarkable how similar they are to Patterson's prior to this year, while Crede is two years older. Crede's embarrassing offensively for a 3B. The Sox were 24th in 3B OBP. Rowand is an average CF after a career year, while Murton(who's had more than a September callup of 160 PA's) will be an average LF when he comes down from his hot numbers of this season. Also, why should the failures of the organization pre-Hendry even matter when comparing the two as they currently are?

[Soul]

The White Sox just seem like a bad team that is winning despite themselves. If they go 81-81 next year, is he still so great? It takes more than one fluke year for me to call someone a great gm. After 2003, everyone was ready to throw a parade for Hendry, and now most people are ready to run him out of town.

 

I understand that, but he made the moves and they panned out. That's what he's being paid to do.

 

How many teams can just put out incredible contenders every season? There's really 4. Cards, Yanks, BoSox, and Braves. The rest of the teams struggle, and the goal is to build a winner who makes a run in a given season. Williams has done that. That's why I think he's a great GM.

[Soul]

Wow, that's alot of sour grapes about Kenny Williams man. Look at the way he has pieced together a ballclub that fits Guillen's mold. His homegrown players have actually panned out and are contributing. His free agent acquisitions have been marvelous. Uribe. Iguchi. Pierzynski. Dye.

 

That's not marvelous, that's mediocre. Walker > Iguchi, Barrett > Pierzynski, Burnitz > Podsednik. Uribe barely had a higher OBP than Neifi. It's no different than Hendry's moves, probably worse. I'll say it again, unreal pitching while they built that divisional lead is why the Sox are in the playoffs. Not because of Williams, Guillen, Podsednik, the way they play, or anything else.

 

You are seriously going to compare Crede and Rowand to Patterson (the biggest crash-and-burn failure in recent memory) and two September callups? :shock: That's borderline ridiculous. As for the pitchers: may be a wash. But you are ignoring the lack of position talent coming from our minor league system for......oh....the last 20 YEARS.

 

Take a look at Crede's numbers, remarkable how similar they are to Patterson's prior to this year, while Crede is two years older. Crede's embarrassing offensively for a 3B. The Sox were 24th in 3B OBP. Rowand is an average CF after a career year, while Murton(who's had more than a September callup of 160 PA's) will be an average LF when he comes down from his hot numbers of this season. Also, why should the failures of the organization pre-Hendry even matter when comparing the two as they currently are?

 

Mediocre if you take the individual stats only. Magical if you put them in the context of that TEAM. I love how you and others try to throw out entire season's worth of stats, marking them as "career years" just to try and twist the stats to fit your argument. That's pretty funny. But it doesn't matter. 99 wins does. A sweep in the ALDS does. Individual stats along the way don't.

 

OK, let's forget the lack of position talent coming from the Cubs in past 20 years. Let's focus on now. Who is there? Murton and Cedeno? Pie, if he ever plays? Not much to hang your hat on. I hope Murton turns out good, but who knows if his performance was just due to the league not knowing him or what? Cedeno----you won't even remember he ever existed in two years, mark that down. Pie---who knows? The cupboard is bare, as it always has been position-player wise. Other teams bring up position talent on a yearly basis. We can't develop one, ever. Doesn't that even bother you?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Don't blame the Sox, who hired a *GREAT* general manager who continually makes solid moves to bring in quality players every year.

 

Don't blame the Sox, who have a minor league system that is actually producing a few players for their major league squad, INCLUDING position players.

Minor league system comment -- let's take a look at the important ChiSox this year:

 

Rotation -

 

El Duque - not homegrown

Garland - not (entirely) homegrown

Buehrle - homegrown

Contreras - not homegrown

Garcia - not homegrown

 

Lineup:

 

Podsednik - not homegrown

Iguchi - not homegrown

Dye - not homegrown

Konerko - not homegrown

Everett - not homegrown

Rowand - homegrown

Pierzynski - not homegrown

Crede - homegrown

Uribe - not homegrown

 

No one in the bullpen except Jenks came from the minors.

 

So in total you have Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, and if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, Jon Garland. Four players does not constitute a great minor league system. The Cubs had more ROOKIES play regularly this season from their system than the White Sox have total homegrown talent on their whole playoff roster.

 

As for the great GM comment:

 

Podsednik, besides his 70 steals, had a very below-average year last year. His OBP was a very non-leadoff-hitter-like .313. In my opinion, the Lee-for-Podsednik deal should have hurt the Sox offense more than it did and that is luck.

 

Dye had his best year in five years this season. Last year he was no better than Preston Wilson and now he hits 30 homers and drops his K's by 30. Also not a great move, but a move that panned out.

 

Carl Everett didn't even have a good year. How the Cubs miss the playoffs with Ramirez/Burnitz in the five hole and the Sox make it with this scrub is beyond me.

 

Pierzynski had his best year ever this season, and much better than with a better offense (SF) last year. How that panned out is beyond me.

 

Juan Uribe was worth nothing before he came to the White Sox. Somehow he has hit 39 homers over the last two seasons after doing absolutely nothing with the Coors-habitated Rockies. Also dumb luck.

 

Also you throw in Contreras and Freddy both having career years, and Garland inexplicably having one of the greatest first halves in the history of baseball, and Kenny Williams is being made to look a lot smarter than he really is with this team.

 

Jenks isn't truly homegrown either, spending most of his minor league career with the Angels.

 

Ken Williams is not a good GM.

Edited October 8, 2005 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Mediocre if you take the individual stats only. Magical if you put them in the context of that TEAM. I love how you and others try to throw out entire season's worth of stats, marking them as "career years" just to try and twist the stats to fit your argument. That's pretty funny. But it doesn't matter. 99 wins does. A sweep in the ALDS does. Individual stats along the way don't.

 

Yes, I consider Rowand's .905 OPS from last year is a career year compared with his .788 Career OPS. Likewise with Dye having his best season since 2001. But, you know what, Williams probably masterfully crafted his team together, creating a middle of the pack offense while unreal pitching performances staked them to a big lead that they barely held when they regressed to the mean.

 

OK, let's forget the lack of position talent coming from the Cubs in past 20 years. Let's focus on now. Who is there? Murton and Cedeno? Pie, if he ever plays? Not much to hang your hat on. I hope Murton turns out good, but who knows if his performance was just due to the league not knowing him or what? Cedeno----you won't even remember he ever existed in two years, mark that down. Pie---who knows? The cupboard is bare, as it always has been position-player wise. Other teams bring up position talent on a yearly basis. We can't develop one, ever. Doesn't that even bother you?

 

Like I said before, Murton and Patterson is basically equivalent to Rowand and Crede. Nevermind Cedeno and Pie. Who are the stud positional prospects that the Sox are pumping out?

[Andy]

Wow, that's alot of sour grapes about Kenny Williams man. Look at the way he has pieced together a ballclub that fits Guillen's mold. His homegrown players have actually panned out and are contributing. His free agent acquisitions have been marvelous. Uribe. Iguchi. Pierzynski. Dye.

 

That's not marvelous, that's mediocre. Walker > Iguchi, Barrett > Pierzynski, Burnitz > Podsednik. Uribe barely had a higher OBP than Neifi. It's no different than Hendry's moves, probably worse. I'll say it again, unreal pitching while they built that divisional lead is why the Sox are in the playoffs. Not because of Williams, Guillen, Podsednik, the way they play, or anything else.

 

You are seriously going to compare Crede and Rowand to Patterson (the biggest crash-and-burn failure in recent memory) and two September callups? :shock: That's borderline ridiculous. As for the pitchers: may be a wash. But you are ignoring the lack of position talent coming from our minor league system for......oh....the last 20 YEARS.

 

Take a look at Crede's numbers, remarkable how similar they are to Patterson's prior to this year, while Crede is two years older. Crede's embarrassing offensively for a 3B. The Sox were 24th in 3B OBP. Rowand is an average CF after a career year, while Murton(who's had more than a September callup of 160 PA's) will be an average LF when he comes down from his hot numbers of this season. Also, why should the failures of the organization pre-Hendry even matter when comparing the two as they currently are?

 

Mediocre if you take the individual stats only. Magical if you put them in the context of that TEAM. I love how you and others try to throw out entire season's worth of stats, marking them as "career years" just to try and twist the stats to fit your argument. That's pretty funny. But it doesn't matter. 99 wins does. A sweep in the ALDS does. Individual stats along the way don't.

 

OK, let's forget the lack of position talent coming from the Cubs in past 20 years. Let's focus on now. Who is there? Murton and Cedeno? Pie, if he ever plays? Not much to hang your hat on. I hope Murton turns out good, but who knows if his performance was just due to the league not knowing him or what? Cedeno----you won't even remember he ever existed in two years, mark that down. Pie---who knows? The cupboard is bare, as it always has been position-player wise. Other teams bring up position talent on a yearly basis. We can't develop one, ever. Doesn't that even bother you?

I love how you are throwing out '99 wins' and 'ALDS sweep' as rationalization for calling Williams a great GM. Just because his mediocre and in some cases downright stupid (Lee for Podsednik) moves have miraculously panned out for him doesn't make him smart.