Another great Bruce Miles column......

[Larry Horse]

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/beatwriters.asp?column=miles

 

Bruce does it again.....how about a Mike Kiley for Bruce Miles trade?

[JC]

Ah-ha! Bruce has succumbed to mocking bitterness.

 

Meetings are at my house at 8:00 pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Bruce. Bring beer and Doritos.

 

Seriously, the last line is exactly right. Everyone sees this ineptitude except the Cub front office. And I mean, EVERYONE. (Except maybe Peter Gammons and Paul Sullivan).

 

The Cubs organization is a joke right now, bouyed hopelessly by a fluke 88 win season that receives entirely too much credit as being a monumental success.

[Garwilly]

Ah-ha! Bruce has succumbed to mocking bitterness.

 

Meetings are at my house at 8:00 pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Bruce. Bring beer and Doritos.

 

Seriously, the last line is exactly right. Everyone sees this ineptitude except the Cub front office. And I mean, EVERYONE. (Except maybe Peter Gammons and Paul Sullivan).

 

The Cubs organization is a joke right now, bouyed hopelessly by a fluke 88 win season that receives entirely too much credit as being a monumental success.

 

 

What about an 89 win season?

 

How is 88 a fluke if followed by 89?

[JC]

Ah-ha! Bruce has succumbed to mocking bitterness.

 

Meetings are at my house at 8:00 pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Bruce. Bring beer and Doritos.

 

Seriously, the last line is exactly right. Everyone sees this ineptitude except the Cub front office. And I mean, EVERYONE. (Except maybe Peter Gammons and Paul Sullivan).

 

The Cubs organization is a joke right now, bouyed hopelessly by a fluke 88 win season that receives entirely too much credit as being a monumental success.

 

 

What about an 89 win season?

 

How is 88 a fluke if followed by 89?

 

It was a fluke in the sense that the Cubs managed to win the division and get into the playoffs with only 88 wins. Houston and St. Louis did not play to the level they could have.

 

Perhaps "fluke" wasn't the right word. I don't want to derail this thread arguing the merits or the value of an 88 win season. That has been done enough.

[cubbieinexile]

I can't see knocking the Cubs because of Grudz. Walker is/was the better player.

 

John Rodriguez? How is that a strike against the front office? What about Joe Borowski? Or what about Neifi last year, or Todd Hollandswoth. For some reason John Rodriguez is a strike because he has done somewhat well in limited play. So well so have Cub transactions.

 

Nor how is Albert Pujols a stike against the Cubs? How many rounds did it take for Albert to be drafted? Every single team passed him, and not just once but many times. Everybody passed up Mike Piazza too is that a strike against the Cubs?

 

Eckstein? So Eckstein worked out. What about Rolen, what about Nunez, Taguchi, and Molina?

 

He focuses for some reason on the offense as if the fundamentals and all that jazz is why they are winning. It isn't they are winning because of pitching. Eckstein and all his tenacity, Rodriguez with his mid season call up wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if the Cardinals had gotten Cub-like performance out of their pitching staff. All those injuries that he said the Cards don't whine about would have made this a tight division/wild card race if it wasn't for the pitching staff.

 

Why doesn't he fault the Cubs on that one? Because you can't, thats why. You can't say that Hendry and the Cubs ahven't done a good job when you have Prior, Zambrano, Wood, and Maddux on your team. Especially when you compare to the names on the Cardinal team.

[YearofDaCubs]

Theres nothing more to be said. Hendry needs to step up and improve this pathetic team. I have a feeling with a weak FA class it won't happen.

[CubfaninCA]

Going into the season Walker & Nomar >>> Grudz and Eckstein. If the Cubs had Taguchi and Rodriguez they'd probably play like crap just like Womack did.

 

Yes the Cards hit the ball quite better than the Cubs, but they're pitching is A LOT better. Perhaps Hendry should have got Mulder or Hudson from Oakland.

[erik316wttn]

Going into the season Walker & Nomar >>> Grudz and Eckstein. If the Cubs had Taguchi and Rodriguez they'd probably play like crap just like Womack did.

 

Yes the Cards hit the ball quite better than the Cubs, but they're pitching is A LOT better. Perhaps Hendry should have got Mulder or Hudson from Oakland.

 

Now that I'll agree with. We could have matched or bettered either offer and still not taken a big hit with our young players. Especially for Mulder.

 

We should have at least made a few offers for Mulder in order to drive the price up for the Cardinals. Sometimes you don't have to trade for the player... just make the other guys pay too much.

[CuseCubFan69]

Theres nothing more to be said. Hendry needs to step up and improve this pathetic team. I have a feeling with a weak FA class it won't happen.

 

The trade route is the best way to fix this team IMO. The Cubs have a lot of decent prospects and it's time to move some before the rule 5 draft.

[daske17]

John Rodriguez? How is that a strike against the front office? What about Joe Borowski? Or what about Neifi last year, or Todd Hollandswoth. For some reason John Rodriguez is a strike because he has done somewhat well in limited play. So well so have Cub transactions.

 

Also on the point about minor-league outfielders making an impact in the bigs. . . the Cubs have had one. His name is Matt Murton.

 

Who was it that didn't play him on a regular basis even though he had success? It certainly wasn't Hendry.

 

And Lawton was a good pick-up at the time. He had a solid OBP and was leadoff material. It didn't work out. Of course, he also hasn't worked out for the Yankees.

 

Hendry should be blamed for lack of foresight. Instead of hoping everything came together, he should have had a back-up plan in place.

[CuseCubFan69]

Hendry should be blamed for lack of foresight. Instead of hoping everything came together, he should have had a back-up plan in place.

 

 

Yeah, fire Baker.

[TheDude]

I know Miles is a friend to this messageboard, but I'm not buying this article because it sights many low value examples and misses some of the more valuable criticisms.

 

Rodriguez for the Cardinals is a lucky call, straight-up. They got lucky, sometimes it happens (Borowski a few years back). The better approach would have been to ask why the Cubs did not rely on Murton the same way the cardinals relied on Rodriguez. That is the real issue there. The Cardinals stuck with the unproven guy, while the Cubs would not until it was too late.

 

On the other hand, the Cubs got unlucky with Lawton. There is no reason to think he couldn't have worked out at the time the deal was made, and if he had sparked the Cubs to a wild-card comeback, it would have been heralded as a genius move.

 

I seriously doubt anybody in a front office anywhere would, without the advantage of hindsight, have taken Rodriguez over Lawton.

 

Another reason the Cardinals are successfull is they are capable of playing all offensive styles of baseball because of a balanced roster. If they need to get the job done with OBP and power, they do it. If they need to get the job done with fundamentals and a little small ball, they do it. I constantly point this out, but it never really sinks in. The cardinals play whatever style of baseball gets them the win on that particular day.

 

The only offensive style of baseball the Cubs know is Homerun.

 

Back to the Miles article, sure the Cardinals had injuries, but not to the same extent as the Cubs in terms of value to the team. The Cubs had the top 2 starters go down (who are both are arguably better than any cardinals starter when healthy), the closer, and 1/3 of the real offensive core. All before the end of April it seemed.

 

Going into the season, analysts never said anything like, "The Cardinals can't get to playoffs unless they have Rolen everyday." But they sure said, "The Cubs are sunk without Prior or Wood for 200 innings."

 

The last thing is that the Cardinals bench is better. The Cubs have a terrible bench. The Cardinals have no trouble plugging in guys.

[indifferent]

Going into the season Walker & Nomar >>> Grudz and Eckstein. If the Cubs had Taguchi and Rodriguez they'd probably play like crap just like Womack did.

 

Yes the Cards hit the ball quite better than the Cubs, but they're pitching is A LOT better. Perhaps Hendry should have got Mulder or Hudson from Oakland.

 

Now that I'll agree with. We could have matched or bettered either offer and still not taken a big hit with our young players. Especially for Mulder.

 

We should have at least made a few offers for Mulder in order to drive the price up for the Cardinals. Sometimes you don't have to trade for the player... just make the other guys pay too much.

 

Disagree here, what major league ready pitcher and stud hitting prospect could the Cubs have countered with (especially that weren't lined up for a big payday)? Cards paid too much with this trade as it was.

[Magnetic Curses]

I can't see knocking the Cubs because of Grudz. Walker is/was the better player.

 

John Rodriguez? How is that a strike against the front office? What about Joe Borowski? Or what about Neifi last year, or Todd Hollandswoth. For some reason John Rodriguez is a strike because he has done somewhat well in limited play. So well so have Cub transactions.

 

Nor how is Albert Pujols a stike against the Cubs? How many rounds did it take for Albert to be drafted? Every single team passed him, and not just once but many times. Everybody passed up Mike Piazza too is that a strike against the Cubs?

 

Eckstein? So Eckstein worked out. What about Rolen, what about Nunez, Taguchi, and Molina?

 

He focuses for some reason on the offense as if the fundamentals and all that jazz is why they are winning. It isn't they are winning because of pitching. Eckstein and all his tenacity, Rodriguez with his mid season call up wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if the Cardinals had gotten Cub-like performance out of their pitching staff. All those injuries that he said the Cards don't whine about would have made this a tight division/wild card race if it wasn't for the pitching staff.

 

Why doesn't he fault the Cubs on that one? Because you can't, thats why. You can't say that Hendry and the Cubs ahven't done a good job when you have Prior, Zambrano, Wood, and Maddux on your team. Especially when you compare to the names on the Cardinal team.

 

yes, this is a suprisingly dull article from miles, who i expect more from.

 

the cards are better because of eckstein, grudz, and rodriguez?

 

not even close, rodriguez was playing at AAA for cleveland, why isn't cleveland stupid for trading him away?

 

eckstein won't have much value after this season, nor will grudz, who has never been the hitter that walker has, never ever, not even this year.

 

the cards have scored more runs than the cubs because of patience (hitting philosophy) and a whole heap of good luck.

 

their pitching has stayed healthy and they have a better bullpen.

 

the cubs could easily win 100 games if they spend wisely this offseason. they don't need to go looking for needles in hackstacks at AAA.

[Magnetic Curses]

Going into the season Walker & Nomar >>> Grudz and Eckstein. If the Cubs had Taguchi and Rodriguez they'd probably play like crap just like Womack did.

 

Yes the Cards hit the ball quite better than the Cubs, but they're pitching is A LOT better. Perhaps Hendry should have got Mulder or Hudson from Oakland.

 

the cards did NOT hit the ball better than the cubs, let alone "quite better", they scored more than the cubs due to a couple key factors. their starters have remained healthy, despite having a history of injury, and their bullpen is far and away superior.

[daske17]

Hendry should be blamed for lack of foresight. Instead of hoping everything came together, he should have had a back-up plan in place.

 

 

Yeah, fire Baker.

 

Well, yes and no. Hendry should have realized that he was pinning his hopes on a starting rotation that has never worked together for more than two or three full rotations.

 

Hendry should have realized that his offense and bullpen were one or two key injuries away from being completely inept.

 

Hendry should have realized that his bench had all the pop of an empty Coke bottle.

 

Even firing Baker wouldn't have changed all that.

[Bruce Miles]

I can't see knocking the Cubs because of Grudz. Walker is/was the better player.

 

John Rodriguez? How is that a strike against the front office? What about Joe Borowski? Or what about Neifi last year, or Todd Hollandswoth. For some reason John Rodriguez is a strike because he has done somewhat well in limited play. So well so have Cub transactions.

 

Nor how is Albert Pujols a stike against the Cubs? How many rounds did it take for Albert to be drafted? Every single team passed him, and not just once but many times. Everybody passed up Mike Piazza too is that a strike against the Cubs?

 

Eckstein? So Eckstein worked out. What about Rolen, what about Nunez, Taguchi, and Molina?

 

He focuses for some reason on the offense as if the fundamentals and all that jazz is why they are winning. It isn't they are winning because of pitching. Eckstein and all his tenacity, Rodriguez with his mid season call up wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if the Cardinals had gotten Cub-like performance out of their pitching staff. All those injuries that he said the Cards don't whine about would have made this a tight division/wild card race if it wasn't for the pitching staff.

 

Why doesn't he fault the Cubs on that one? Because you can't, thats why. You can't say that Hendry and the Cubs ahven't done a good job when you have Prior, Zambrano, Wood, and Maddux on your team. Especially when you compare to the names on the Cardinal team.

 

yes, this is a suprisingly dull article from miles, who i expect more from.

 

the cards are better because of eckstein, grudz, and rodriguez?

 

not even close, rodriguez was playing at AAA for cleveland, why isn't cleveland stupid for trading him away?

 

eckstein won't have much value after this season, nor will grudz, who has never been the hitter that walker has, never ever, not even this year.

 

the cards have scored more runs than the cubs because of patience (hitting philosophy) and a whole heap of good luck.

 

their pitching has stayed healthy and they have a better bullpen.

 

the cubs could easily win 100 games if they spend wisely this offseason. they don't need to go looking for needles in hackstacks at AAA.

 

I never said the Cardinals were better because of Eckstein and the others. I said they were better because of BETTER DECISION MAKING, which includes acquiring the players I mentioned.

Oh, yes, Eckstein will have value beyond this year. And if the Cardinals win it all with him at the top of the order, he surely has had value this year.

Walker a better player than Grudz? Ask the Cubs pitching staff.

The point on Rodriguez is not that he's a difference maker. It's that he's a valuable part, one that the Cardinals identified and acquired. From people I talked to in baseball, the Cubs really had no idea who he was. Followers of the team should be alarmed by that.

[The Voice of Reason]

The Dude wrote:

 

Going into the season, analysts never said anything like, "The Cardinals can't get to playoffs unless they have Rolen everyday." But they sure said, "The Cubs are sunk without Prior or Wood for 200 innings."

 

 

 

"The Cardinals never would have given a high priced, long-term contract to Kerry Wood - a pitcher with bad mechanics and a history of arm trouble."

 

- Steve Stone on WSCR

Edited September 29, 2005 by The Voice of Reason

[CoolHandLuke]

Going into the season Walker & Nomar >>> Grudz and Eckstein. If the Cubs had Taguchi and Rodriguez they'd probably play like crap just like Womack did.

 

Yes the Cards hit the ball quite better than the Cubs, but they're pitching is A LOT better. Perhaps Hendry should have got Mulder or Hudson from Oakland.

 

Now that I'll agree with. We could have matched or bettered either offer and still not taken a big hit with our young players. Especially for Mulder.

 

We should have at least made a few offers for Mulder in order to drive the price up for the Cardinals. Sometimes you don't have to trade for the player... just make the other guys pay too much.

 

Disagree here, what major league ready pitcher and stud hitting prospect could the Cubs have countered with (especially that weren't lined up for a big payday)? Cards paid too much with this trade as it was.

 

I was thinking the same thing. What was it Barton, Calero, and Haren? We would have had to trade Pie, someone like Hill, then add mitre and probably another minor league arm to even come close to matching that.

 

Anyone else find it awesome that the A's appear to have killed the cards in that trade? Haren has had a better year than Mulder in my mind.

[ManEatingTarp]

Going into the season Walker & Nomar >>> Grudz and Eckstein. If the Cubs had Taguchi and Rodriguez they'd probably play like crap just like Womack did.

 

Yes the Cards hit the ball quite better than the Cubs, but they're pitching is A LOT better. Perhaps Hendry should have got Mulder or Hudson from Oakland.

 

Now that I'll agree with. We could have matched or bettered either offer and still not taken a big hit with our young players. Especially for Mulder.

 

We should have at least made a few offers for Mulder in order to drive the price up for the Cardinals. Sometimes you don't have to trade for the player... just make the other guys pay too much.

 

Disagree here, what major league ready pitcher and stud hitting prospect could the Cubs have countered with (especially that weren't lined up for a big payday)? Cards paid too much with this trade as it was.

 

I was thinking the same thing. What was it Barton, Calero, and Haren? We would have had to trade Pie, someone like Hill, then add mitre and probably another minor league arm to even come close to matching that.

 

Anyone else find it awesome that the A's appear to have killed the cards in that trade? Haren has had a better year than Mulder in my mind.

 

If Mulder comes up big in the playoffs and the Cards win the World Series, I'd go back and trade 100 Harens and Caleros...

 

It's the hardest of lines to walk in baseball. WIN NOW! .... but don't forget about the future.

[CubfaninCA]

My question is how did Card pitching become so much better than the Cubs. They're up .75 in ERA on them, and lead the majors. The Cub rotation was far superior in 2003 and looked A LOT better on paper last year and this year.

 

The Cards probably take it all this year cause they acquired guys like Carpenter, Mulder, Suppan, Marquis, and Isringhausen. If Hendry was clairvoyant like some, he could have dealt Patterson, Hill & Mitre for Mulder. No loss whatsoever.

 

Ok, I'll answer my own question. Prior & Wood has some bad luck again this year. They, along w/ Z, are the key's to this team. Blame obp all you want, but Prior, Wood & Z are the straws that stir the drink.

[gflore34]

Pitching, pitching all that rhetoric about Grudz, Eckstein, Rodriguez, decision making, etc. doesn't to amount a hill of beans if the Cards pitching staff was gutted by injuries in the manner the Cubs were. Over the last two seasons the Cards have used 15 starters, this year alone the Cubs have used 10 starters.

 

How good would have the superior Eckstein, Grudz, Taguchi, Rodriguez, et al looked if they had garbage like Mitre, Koronka and Rusch starting for them?

Edited September 29, 2005 by gflore34

[TheDude]

The Dude wrote:

 

Going into the season, analysts never said anything like, "The Cardinals can't get to playoffs unless they have Rolen everyday." But they sure said, "The Cubs are sunk without Prior or Wood for 200 innings."

 

 

 

"The Cardinals never would have given a high priced, long-term contract to Kerry Wood - a pitcher with bad mechanics and a history of arm trouble."

 

- Steve Stone on WSCR

I'm not quite sure why you quoted me, as your response has nothing to do with my statement, but I suppose I'll comment anyway. The Cardinals have many pitchers in their rotation and bullpen with a history of injuries. Do any them make Wood kind of money? No. But I hardly think the argument (well, there wasn't any supporting argument :? ) holds.

 

Kerry did average 199 innings per year from 2001 - 2003, a stretch of three years pretty healthy.

[IlliniAmy]

Pitching, pitching all that rhetoric about Grudz, Eckstein, Rodriguez, decision making, etc. doesn't to amount a hill of beans if the Cards pitching staff was gutted by injuries in the manner the Cubs were. Over the last two seasons the Cards have used 15 starters, this year alone the Cubs have used 10 starters.

 

How many starters did the Cardinals use in 2002?

[ManEatingTarp]

Pitching, pitching all that rhetoric about Grudz, Eckstein, Rodriguez, decision making, etc. doesn't to amount a hill of beans if the Cards pitching staff was gutted by injuries in the manner the Cubs were. Over the last two seasons the Cards have used 15 starters, this year alone the Cubs have used 10 starters.

 

I give you Prior. His injury(s) were fluky...

 

But everyone knew that Kerry Wood would only start 20 games max this year. Expecting him to start more than half a season is just wishing on good luck. The Cubs can't continue to hang post season hopes on him.

When Jason Stark had his preseason predictions he said the Cubs would win the division if Wood, Prior and Z all started 30+ times. That's when I started feeling pretty good about the Cards chances.