The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[XZero771679666304]

I dont know man isn't 4 years kinda steep for a player who will be 39 going into the last season of his contract?

 

Had the Cubs had Giles in RF instead of Burnitz, we would have been 5th in OBP instead of 13th. That alone speaks of his value. The window is closing. I don't think we have the luxury of passing on the only impact OF because of his age.

 

We can be fiscally responsible in fourth place or we can overpay for the player than immediately improves the line-up. I choose the later.

I want Giles too but 4 years scares me. Obviously if we can get him for 3 years that would be perfect.

 

What if the Cards offered 3/36, would you do the fourth to keep him away from them? I would. I would go ahead and offer the fourth to keep him from even thinking about other teams.

 

I would go four, but frontload the contract.

[YearofDaCubs]

I dont know man isn't 4 years kinda steep for a player who will be 39 going into the last season of his contract?

 

Had the Cubs had Giles in RF instead of Burnitz, we would have been 5th in OBP instead of 13th. That alone speaks of his value. The window is closing. I don't think we have the luxury of passing on the only impact OF because of his age.

 

We can be fiscally responsible in fourth place or we can overpay for the player than immediately improves the line-up. I choose the later.

I want Giles too but 4 years scares me. Obviously if we can get him for 3 years that would be perfect.

 

 

What if the Cards offered 3/36, would you do the fourth to keep him away from them? I would. I would go ahead and offer the fourth to keep him from even thinking about other teams.

 

If necessary yes because if he goes to the Cards we are done for.

[UMFan83]

With regards to Giles, if Hendry can get rid of Hundley with his production/contract and he can get rid of Sosa, he could get rid of Giles if his numbers slip

[MPrior]

What if Hendry just came right out and said, "we are prepared to offer you more than anyone else is likely to offer. Just remember that, and any time you get a tempting offer from someone, you call me and I'll beat it."

 

If Hendry does this, it at least lets Giles and his agent know that he's seriously interested, and might prevent them from signing somewhere else without checking with Hendry first. And secondly, it might wind up saving Hendry some money. Let's say the highest offer Giles gets somewhere else is (I wish) 3/36. Hendry could probably counter with 3/40 or 3/38 with an option and possibly get the deal done. Just wishful thinking; I still think it's gonna take four years to get him to come here.

[CubsWin]

With regards to Giles, if Hendry can get rid of Hundley with his production/contract and he can get rid of Sosa, he could get rid of Giles if his numbers slip

No doubt. That Hundley trade still amazes me.

 

Folks, lets not quibble over 4 years or 3. If the Padres and Cardinals are going to give him 3, then the best way and perhaps the only way for the Cubs to get him is to give him 4. Besides, that part was already voted on and decided. This is about how to structure it.

 

I think it is smart to front load a 4-year contract being given to a 34 year old. Chances are that his production may drop off a bit in years 3 and 4, so why not have the payment do the same. The player is happy because he is getting more money sooner. The team is happy because he becomes easier to trade if need be. The amount of guaranteed money doesn't change so the agent couldn't care either way.

 

The Cubs have plenty of money to spend this year and likely next as well, so why not go 15, 14, 11, 10 or 15, 13, 11, 9 with a mutual option on a 5th year at 9 million with a 2 million dollar buyout.

[CubsWin]

What if Hendry just came right out and said, "we are prepared to offer you more than anyone else is likely to offer. Just remember that, and any time you get a tempting offer from someone, you call me and I'll beat it."

 

If Hendry does this, it at least lets Giles and his agent know that he's seriously interested, and might prevent them from signing somewhere else without checking with Hendry first. And secondly, it might wind up saving Hendry some money. Let's say the highest offer Giles gets somewhere else is (I wish) 3/36. Hendry could probably counter with 3/40 or 3/38 with an option and possibly get the deal done. Just wishful thinking; I still think it's gonna take four years to get him to come here.

One, how do we know that he hasn't done exactly that?

 

Two, it might not be the best strategy financially. And like it or not, money is always a consideration in this game. If the agent for Giles knew that Hendry was going to top any offer, then he could manipulate things so that one team offers a crazy amount of money that they never intend to pay. Hendry, true to his word, ponies up the money to beat the deal and hurts his team's financial situation. Consequently, the Cubs can't afford to resign Lee or Prior or someone like that a year later and the acquisition of Giles is effectively negated.

[Outshined_One]

What if Hendry just came right out and said, "we are prepared to offer you more than anyone else is likely to offer. Just remember that, and any time you get a tempting offer from someone, you call me and I'll beat it."

 

"Mr. Hendry? Walt Jocketty in St. Louis just offered me a five year deal worth $70 million."

That's the Cubs' history, they are always behind the curve in management philosophies. I just wish we could get someone ahead of the curve just once.

Paul DePodesta is out of a job...

[E.J.]

How about Chad Tracy for right field?

 

D'Backs may trade Tracy

 

Arizona might have some offense to trade, and first baseman Chad Tracy already has drawn interest from teams, including the Red Sox.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

How about Chad Tracy for right field?

 

D'Backs may trade Tracy

 

Arizona might have some offense to trade, and first baseman Chad Tracy already has drawn interest from teams, including the Red Sox.

 

He has no power and limited range. I like his plate discipline, but we need a big bat in RF.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How about Chad Tracy for right field?

 

D'Backs may trade Tracy

 

Arizona might have some offense to trade, and first baseman Chad Tracy already has drawn interest from teams, including the Red Sox.

 

He has no power and limited range. I like his plate discipline, but we need a big bat in RF.

 

No power? He had a .553 SLG this year and a nearly .250 IsoP.

[Warpticon]

This is a very interesting position, and could go a number of ways. But it is a no brainer that wherever you go, u have to go cheap.

 

Walker's option should be picked up regardless of whether or not hes part of the 2006 plan. 2.5 million dollars for his production should help the cubs whether in a trade, or the helping the actual team.

 

If Walker is not starting at 2B, than the only reason would be to improve the middle infield defense drastically. Only 2 ways i can see that happening without spending much money at 2B.

 

1. Start Cedeno if he can play the position well enough

2. Sign furcal, and put nomar at 2B

 

Either of these options is suitable, but i prefer signing Walker to start at 2B, Unless he can land us a good setup man or a high level prospect.

 

Putting Nomar at 2B would definitely not help the middle infield defense drastically.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

How about Chad Tracy for right field?

 

D'Backs may trade Tracy

 

Arizona might have some offense to trade, and first baseman Chad Tracy already has drawn interest from teams, including the Red Sox.

 

He has no power and limited range. I like his plate discipline, but we need a big bat in RF.

 

No power? He had a .553 SLG this year and a nearly .250 IsoP.

 

yeah, i'm wrong.

 

where did this power come from anyways? he never hit above .500 SLG in the minors (or his first year in Arizona). the most HRs he had in a season was 10 before this year.

 

was 2005 an aberration?

[USSoccer]

Have we come up with a valid Giles Contract yet?

[CubsWin]

Have we come up with a valid Giles Contract yet?

Well, the options appear to be front loaded, spread out evenly or spread out evenly with a 2 million buyout on a 5th year mutual option. Everything has to equal the guaranteed money of 50 million over 4 years.

[YearofDaCubs]

Tracy reminds me a lot of Murton.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How about Chad Tracy for right field?

 

D'Backs may trade Tracy

 

Arizona might have some offense to trade, and first baseman Chad Tracy already has drawn interest from teams, including the Red Sox.

 

He has no power and limited range. I like his plate discipline, but we need a big bat in RF.

 

No power? He had a .553 SLG this year and a nearly .250 IsoP.

 

yeah, i'm wrong.

 

where did this power come from anyways? he never hit above .500 SLG in the minors (or his first year in Arizona). the most HRs he had in a season was 10 before this year.

 

was 2005 an aberration?

 

He was a high doubles guy in the minors, looks like more of those are leaving the park, and more singles are getting to the gap. He may not be a .550 SLG guy perennially, but he's still only 25, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was able to consistently put up those numbers.

[CubsWin]

I only bring this up because of the way this thread was structured when Roast started it a long time ago. This is to be one long thread that discusses every position the Cubs have to look at this off season. Right now, the topic on the table is how should the agreed-upon 4-year, 50 million dollar contract offer to Brian Giles be structured.

 

If the Mods could break off any other discussions into their own threads that would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Lefty]

Maybe this was covered in the first 36 pages, one of you can call me on that, but has the name of J.D. Drew come up? His 5/$50 million is now 4/40, and a GM just got fired because of him. It seems that the Dodgers might be willing to dump that salary. And we need OFs like most teams need bullpen help. We need to collect OFs and sort them out later.

[UMFan83]

There are 1,000 ways you can discredit this as useless info, but I thought I'd post it anyways. With the addition of Furcal, Lofton and Giles, here is the way our lineup would shape up based on last years numbers

 

	     At Bats	SHs	Hits	Doubles	Triples	Home Runs	HBP	Walks	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Barrett, C	424	2	117	32	3	16	7	40	0.276	0.347	0.479	0.825
Lee, 1B	594	0	199	50	3	46	5	85	0.335	0.423	0.662	1.084
Walker, 2B	397	2	121	25	3	12	1	31	0.305	0.355	0.474	0.829
Ramirez, 3B	463	0	140	30	0	31	6	35	0.302	0.359	0.568	0.927
Furcal, SS	616	5	175	31	11	12	1	62	0.284	0.348	0.429	0.777
Murton, LF	140	2	45	3	2	7	0	16	0.321	0.386	0.521	0.908
Lofton, CF	367	5	123	15	5	2	2	32	0.335	0.387	0.420	0.806
Giles, RF	545	0	164	38	8	15	2	119	0.301	0.428	0.483	0.910

Total	3546	16	1084	224	35	141	24	420	0.306	0.381	0.508	0.889

 

Verses our "best" lineup last year:

 

	At Bats	SHs	Hits	Doubles	Triples	Home Runs	HBP	Walks	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Barrett, C	424	2	117	32	3	16	7	40	0.276	0.347	0.479	0.825
Lee, 1B	594	0	199	50	3	46	5	85	0.335	0.423	0.662	1.084
Walker, 2B	397	2	121	25	3	12	1	31	0.305	0.355	0.474	0.829
Ramirez, 3B	463	0	140	30	0	31	6	35	0.302	0.359	0.568	0.927
Garciaparra, IF	230	0	65	12	0	9	2	12	0.283	0.324	0.452	0.776
Murton, OF	140	2	45	3	2	7	0	16	0.321	0.386	0.521	0.908
Hairston, IF/OF	380	7	99	25	2	4	12	31	0.261	0.330	0.368	0.699
Burnitz, RF	605	1	156	31	2	24	3	57	0.258	0.324	0.435	0.759

Total	3233	14	942	208	15	149	36	307	0.291	0.358	0.503	0.861

 

(note: the coding is probably wrong because I copied it from an excel file. I might fix it if people don't get the big picture)

[UBlink]

There are 1,000 ways you can discredit this as useless info, but I thought I'd post it anyways. With the addition of Furcal, Lofton and Giles, here is the way our lineup would shape up based on last years numbers

 

	     At Bats	SHs	Hits	Doubles	Triples	Home Runs	HBP	Walks	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Barrett, C	424	2	117	32	3	16	7	40	0.276	0.347	0.479	0.825
Lee, 1B	594	0	199	50	3	46	5	85	0.335	0.423	0.662	1.084
Walker, 2B	397	2	121	25	3	12	1	31	0.305	0.355	0.474	0.829
Ramirez, 3B	463	0	140	30	0	31	6	35	0.302	0.359	0.568	0.927
Furcal, SS	616	5	175	31	11	12	1	62	0.284	0.348	0.429	0.777
Murton, LF	140	2	45	3	2	7	0	16	0.321	0.386	0.521	0.908
Lofton, CF	367	5	123	15	5	2	2	32	0.335	0.387	0.420	0.806
Giles, RF	545	0	164	38	8	15	2	119	0.301	0.428	0.483	0.910

Total	3546	16	1084	224	35	141	24	420	0.306	0.381	0.508	0.889

 

Verses our "best" lineup last year:

 

	At Bats	SHs	Hits	Doubles	Triples	Home Runs	HBP	Walks	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Barrett, C	424	2	117	32	3	16	7	40	0.276	0.347	0.479	0.825
Lee, 1B	594	0	199	50	3	46	5	85	0.335	0.423	0.662	1.084
Walker, 2B	397	2	121	25	3	12	1	31	0.305	0.355	0.474	0.829
Ramirez, 3B	463	0	140	30	0	31	6	35	0.302	0.359	0.568	0.927
Garciaparra, IF	230	0	65	12	0	9	2	12	0.283	0.324	0.452	0.776
Murton, OF	140	2	45	3	2	7	0	16	0.321	0.386	0.521	0.908
Hairston, IF/OF	380	7	99	25	2	4	12	31	0.261	0.330	0.368	0.699
Burnitz, RF	605	1	156	31	2	24	3	57	0.258	0.324	0.435	0.759

Total	3233	14	942	208	15	149	36	307	0.291	0.358	0.503	0.861

 

(note: the coding is probably wrong because I copied it from an excel file. I might fix it if people don't get the big picture)

 

I don't know - HBP is down 33%

[Fred Hornkohl]

I don't know - HBP is down 33%

 

Hairston alone got plunked 11 times.

[Jazz]

wat happened to this thread?

[CubsWin]

wat happened to this thread?

It unraveled. :lol:

 

Get it? Thread. Unrav...eled.

 

 

:oops:

 

 

Never mind.

[CubsWin]

wat happened to this thread?

But seriously, folks.

 

The state of this thread is that we are discussing how to structure the agreed upon contract offer of 4 years/50 million.

 

Some of the options that have been put forth are:

 

1. Evenly spacing out the money at 12.5 per year.

2. Front-loading the contract like 15, 14, 11, 10. This would make Giles's pay more likely to match his production as he ages. The Cubs have the money to spend on him now, but in the years to come they will need to resign players like Z, Prior, Ramirez and Lee, so the declining pay scale would benefit them there as well as making Giles easier to trade without having to eat money later. And Giles would probably like it because he gets more money sooner which is always a good thing.

3. Structure it so it goes 12, 12, 12, 12 with a 2 million dollar buyout on a mutual option 5th year in the 8-9 million range.

4. The same thing as 3, but front-load it like 2. (15, 13, 11, 9 with a 2 million buyout on the mutual 5th year option)

 

Roast has yet to start a poll on the structuring of Giles's deal, so we have yet to vote on any of these options, and that is where we stand.