The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[Magnetic Curses]

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that Pena and/or Kearns might be available this offseason now that Griffey has proven to be able to play for the whole season. Obviously, they want pitching. If the Cubs can resign Rusch and use any combination of Rusch, Williams, Mitre, Hill, Welly, plus position players like Patterson, Walker, and prospects, I think that might solve one OF position. For free agents, Giles is the choice if we can outbid all of the other teams. The advantage of getting Kearns or Pena is that they are both young enough to fit into plans for the next 5 years.

 

When I mentioned Kearns or Pena, I didn't necessarily mean for RF. Giles is what we need for RF, but we need to be prepared for the possibility that he won't leave the West Coast. I wonder whether Murton, Kearns, or Pena can play CF. It couldn't be much worse defensively than Nomar in LF.

 

Pena can play CF decently. Murton and Kearns would struggle in CF.

 

pena is not the answer for this team.

[USSoccer]

I agree that Pena isn't the answer at any position, but et's wait until CF comes up to address it later today.

[larhur]

Burnitz played great defense and was OK offensively, and the fans really took to him, the only change I would consider would be Giles, If not him keep Burnitz in place, on the infield, perez needs to go, he already said he would not play unless he was promised a starting position

[goonys evil twin]

Burnitz played great defense and was OK offensively, and the fans really took to him, the only change I would consider would be Giles, If not him keep Burnitz in place, on the infield, perez needs to go, he already said he would not play unless he was promised a starting position

 

Who cares if some fans liked him, he's brutal. He's a terrible middle of the order hitter, and pretty bad for a RF, no matter where he hits in the order. The Cubs RF production was abysmal this year. LF gets all the attention, but relative to the position, RF was nearly as big a hole as any other position on the field. He did not play great defense, just because Brenly repeatedly made the claim that he did that doesn't make it true. He had his fair share of mistakes, and was Alouesque on the basepaths. Burnitz must go. If he wants to take $2m to be a 4th OF, then you consider it, but he's not worth anything close to his salary, and he certainly doesn't deserve a starting job on a $100 million team that should contend.

[goonys evil twin]

I haven't scrolled through this entire thread, so maybe this has been mentioned. But it surprised me.

 

A snippet from a Philly.com article:

 

The Arizona GM's job appears to be wide-open, with Diamondbacks CEO Jeff Moorad, a former agent, saying that highly regarded scouting director Mike Rizzo will not be a candidate ... As an agent, Moorad had many dealings with the Phillies. It would not be surprising to see him interview Ruben Amaro Jr., the Phils' assistant GM. It's likely that the Phils will investigate trading Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu, both of whom have no-trade clauses. Burrell might waive his to play for Moorad's D'backs. Moorad was his agent

 

That's just in the tidbits section of the article, which is about several other things. But with Abreu's little post-HR Derby hiccup, maybe his price tag is down a little bit.

 

OK, probably not. But it's fun to think about, and if he's at all available, Hendry should be beating down the door.

 

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

 

I've thought for quite a while that if Philly didn't make the postseason this year, affectively wasting the first two years in their new ballpark, and a ton of money at the same time, there would be a very large chance they'd make changes that might include trading Abreu. As well respected as Abreu is in the fantasy baseball world, in real life in Philly he's just not treated like a star. I'm not saying he's not appreciated, just that I don't think Philly views him as a franchise, cornerstone irreplacable player.

 

Personally I think they're more likely to deal Burrell before his contract goes berserker, but you never know who the favorites are among the front office types. Somebody who could end up with more control this year might be a Burrell supporter, and that person could look to build around Pat by acquiring pitching with Abreu. With that fractional behind the scenes ownership situation, it's a total wild card.

 

What I'd love to see happen is the Cubs acting as a middle man for a Thome deal, perhaps sending Jim to to the White Sox, Red Sox, Baltimore or Anaheim. They would send a big chunk of prospects, as well as pay some of the Thome money, and end up with Abreu. Philly would clear their books of a bad deal, an AL team could split Thome between 1B and DH, and the Cubs would get the difference making bat they so desperately need.

 

The Cubs have the money to take on deals, the problem is the lack of talent to pay that money to.

 

And I would have no problem dealing away Walker or Hairston and Murton in such a deal if they end up signing Giles as well. Then go with Cedeno at SS, Walker or Hairston at 2B and Patterson in CF. The Giles, Lee, Abreu, Ramirez fearsome foursome would more than makeup for a lack of big time O at some other positions.

[Magnetic Curses]

Burnitz played great defense and was OK offensively, and the fans really took to him, the only change I would consider would be Giles, If not him keep Burnitz in place, on the infield, perez needs to go, he already said he would not play unless he was promised a starting position

 

no, burnitz is not good enough. there are several option in this year's abyssmal FA market that would be considered significant upgrades to burnitz. as goony said, you thank burnitz for trying his best by giving him 2 mil or under to accept a job as 4th outfielder (making sure dusty knows he's coming back for that reason and that reason alone). wait, now that i think about it, you don't bring him back at all if you want murton to develop in left field.

[CubinNY]

I haven't scrolled through this entire thread, so maybe this has been mentioned. But it surprised me.

 

A snippet from a Philly.com article:

 

The Arizona GM's job appears to be wide-open, with Diamondbacks CEO Jeff Moorad, a former agent, saying that highly regarded scouting director Mike Rizzo will not be a candidate ... As an agent, Moorad had many dealings with the Phillies. It would not be surprising to see him interview Ruben Amaro Jr., the Phils' assistant GM. It's likely that the Phils will investigate trading Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu, both of whom have no-trade clauses. Burrell might waive his to play for Moorad's D'backs. Moorad was his agent

 

That's just in the tidbits section of the article, which is about several other things. But with Abreu's little post-HR Derby hiccup, maybe his price tag is down a little bit.

 

OK, probably not. But it's fun to think about, and if he's at all available, Hendry should be beating down the door.

 

If Abreu really is available, wow. Trade Murton + Williams + whatever minor leaguer other than Pie for him and still sign Giles. Giles goes to LF, Abreu in RF. Leave Corey + Hairston platooning in CF and retain Nomar + Walker.

 

 

I've thought for quite a while that if Philly didn't make the postseason this year, affectively wasting the first two years in their new ballpark, and a ton of money at the same time, there would be a very large chance they'd make changes that might include trading Abreu. As well respected as Abreu is in the fantasy baseball world, in real life in Philly he's just not treated like a star. I'm not saying he's not appreciated, just that I don't think Philly views him as a franchise, cornerstone irreplacable player.

 

Personally I think they're more likely to deal Burrell before his contract goes berserker, but you never know who the favorites are among the front office types. Somebody who could end up with more control this year might be a Burrell supporter, and that person could look to build around Pat by acquiring pitching with Abreu. With that fractional behind the scenes ownership situation, it's a total wild card.

 

What I'd love to see happen is the Cubs acting as a middle man for a Thome deal, perhaps sending Jim to to the White Sox, Red Sox, Baltimore or Anaheim. They would send a big chunk of prospects, as well as pay some of the Thome money, and end up with Abreu. Philly would clear their books of a bad deal, an AL team could split Thome between 1B and DH, and the Cubs would get the difference making bat they so desperately need.

 

The Cubs have the money to take on deals, the problem is the lack of talent to pay that money to.

 

And I would have no problem dealing away Walker or Hairston and Murton in such a deal if they end up signing Giles as well. Then go with Cedeno at SS, Walker or Hairston at 2B and Patterson in CF. The Giles, Lee, Abreu, Ramirez fearsome foursome would more than makeup for a lack of big time O at some other positions.

 

I love this time of year.

[RynoRules]

I think his numbers will stay steady for 2 more seasons, and then we can expect a season similar to Alou's 2003, and then the 4th year all bets are off.

 

However, 36 isn't that old for a ballplayer anymore, and Giles shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

 

I guess I disagree. If he wants 4 years, he gets 7-8 mill from me. I'd happily do 2 yrs at 9-10, with an option for a 3rd at 11 or so.

RR, have you looked at Giles' numbers? Not only are they outstanding in their own right, but they are exactly what the Cubs offense has been lacking. Did I mention he bats left-handed? Has an above average arm for RF? He is a hard-nosed player who leads by example and generally keeps his mouth shut. What more do you need to hear?

 

Now that you know that he isn't 36 or even pushing that number, the likelihood of him producing his normal numbers for the next 2-3 years goes up. So if you are still not on the Brian Giles bandWGN, then who's are you on? Who is better than Giles?

 

First, let me correct myself: he is pushing 35, as his b-day is in January.

 

Here are his stats, and I agree that they are very good:

 

Season 158 545 92 164 38 8 15 83 13 .301 .423 .483

Career 1360 4656 863 1393 297 47 246 858 93 .299 .413 .542

 

Here are Manny's:

 

Season 152 554 112 162 30 1 45 144 1 .292 .388 .594

Career 1686 6124 1178 1920 411 15 434 1411 34 .314 .409 .598

 

I just love Manny's consistent production. I don't dislike Giles - in fact I think he'd be a very nice addition. I prefer Manny b/c he is a once-in-a-generation type, IMHO, and his last 5 years have been akin to Frank Thomas' run in the eary and mid nineties.

 

I admit it: I am drinking from the Manny Kool-Aid.

 

Giles may be more realistic in terms of his "get-ability", that is unless his affinity for So-Cal is more truth than supposition.

[mhuber92211]

Signing Giles to an "anything" contract is not my plan A. I think that Plan A should be Giles at a resonable contract. A 3 year deal would be acceptable but not 4. 3 Years and under 10 a year would be acceptable but over that is overpaying. I firmly believe that there are better options then having to overpay to get Giles. Yes he would be a valuable member of the team, but his value decreases when you have to overpay to get him. I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

In regards to the idea that Giles would be a better way to acquire a player because we wouldn't have to give up minor leaguers to get him, this is a good point. However, I like the idea of using some of our talent to acquire a player. We need to take advantage of the players we have and utilize them appropiately since they will likely never see our ML team.

[USSoccer]

Signing Giles to an "anything" contract is not my plan A. I think that Plan A should be Giles at a resonable contract. A 3 year deal would be acceptable but not 4. 3 Years and under 10 a year would be acceptable but over that is overpaying. I firmly believe that there are better options then having to overpay to get Giles. Yes he would be a valuable member of the team, but his value decreases when you have to overpay to get him. I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

In regards to the idea that Giles would be a better way to acquire a player because we wouldn't have to give up minor leaguers to get him, this is a good point. However, I like the idea of using some of our talent to acquire a player. We need to take advantage of the players we have and utilize them appropiately since they will likely never see our ML team.

 

The trouble with that is that we don't have a whole ton of players that would be useful in aquiring an impact player.

 

Next, Huff sucked this year, and I don't think he'd outproduce Murton next year.

 

Third, you can move Giles in the 3rd or 4th year if he's declined by then. It's worth signing him at 4/$42 because for the first 2 years of that deal he's a virtual lock to put up numbers that make our corner OF's this past year look like crap, and make us a pennant contender.

[goonys evil twin]

I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

If we're making a public record I'll say I'd be disgusted by that OF. Basically you are very likely getting 3 sub 800 OPS, and quite possibly getting no more than a 750/650/790. That's awful, and completely unacceptable.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry has his work cut out for him. Let's see how he responds.

[HoopsCubs]

Signing Giles to an "anything" contract is not my plan A. I think that Plan A should be Giles at a resonable contract. A 3 year deal would be acceptable but not 4. 3 Years and under 10 a year would be acceptable but over that is overpaying. I firmly believe that there are better options then having to overpay to get Giles. Yes he would be a valuable member of the team, but his value decreases when you have to overpay to get him. I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

In regards to the idea that Giles would be a better way to acquire a player because we wouldn't have to give up minor leaguers to get him, this is a good point. However, I like the idea of using some of our talent to acquire a player. We need to take advantage of the players we have and utilize them appropiately since they will likely never see our ML team.

 

The trouble with that is that we don't have a whole ton of players that would be useful in aquiring an impact player.

 

Next, Huff sucked this year, and I don't think he'd outproduce Murton next year.

 

Third, you can move Giles in the 3rd or 4th year if he's declined by then. It's worth signing him at 4/$42 because for the first 2 years of that deal he's a virtual lock to put up numbers that make our corner OF's this past year look like crap, and make us a pennant contender.

 

If you did a Google search on "Huff lazy" you'll get a million hits.

Huff is awful. I agree - let's stay away from him.

[Magnetic Curses]

Signing Giles to an "anything" contract is not my plan A. I think that Plan A should be Giles at a resonable contract. A 3 year deal would be acceptable but not 4. 3 Years and under 10 a year would be acceptable but over that is overpaying. I firmly believe that there are better options then having to overpay to get Giles. Yes he would be a valuable member of the team, but his value decreases when you have to overpay to get him. I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

In regards to the idea that Giles would be a better way to acquire a player because we wouldn't have to give up minor leaguers to get him, this is a good point. However, I like the idea of using some of our talent to acquire a player. We need to take advantage of the players we have and utilize them appropiately since they will likely never see our ML team.

 

is having at least one outfielder with a +.400 OBP really that awful of an idea?

[YearofDaCubs]

Signing Giles to an "anything" contract is not my plan A. I think that Plan A should be Giles at a resonable contract. A 3 year deal would be acceptable but not 4. 3 Years and under 10 a year would be acceptable but over that is overpaying. I firmly believe that there are better options then having to overpay to get Giles. Yes he would be a valuable member of the team, but his value decreases when you have to overpay to get him. I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

In regards to the idea that Giles would be a better way to acquire a player because we wouldn't have to give up minor leaguers to get him, this is a good point. However, I like the idea of using some of our talent to acquire a player. We need to take advantage of the players we have and utilize them appropiately since they will likely never see our ML team.

 

The trouble with that is that we don't have a whole ton of players that would be useful in aquiring an impact player.

 

Next, Huff sucked this year, and I don't think he'd outproduce Murton next year.

 

Third, you can move Giles in the 3rd or 4th year if he's declined by then. It's worth signing him at 4/$42 because for the first 2 years of that deal he's a virtual lock to put up numbers that make our corner OF's this past year look like crap, and make us a pennant contender.

 

If you did a Google search on "Huff lazy" you'll get a million hits.

Huff is awful. I agree - let's stay away from him.

I liked Huff and wanted to get him this year for us, but although last year he started to break out after slumping badly his numbers this year have not been good and they are even worse the last month of the season. Not looking good. His line for this year:

 

.261 22HR 92RBI .321OBP 88K. Decent but not great. OBP fell .40 points which is disturbing.

 

Def not worth a top prospect to trade for but I woudl still take him if the price was right.

[CubsWin]

I will go on record and say that I would prefer an OF of Huff/Patterson/Ibanez with Murton as the 4th OF before I would go with Murton/Patterson/Giles if Giles would cost a 4/42 deal.

 

If we're making a public record I'll say I'd be disgusted by that OF. Basically you are very likely getting 3 sub 800 OPS, and quite possibly getting no more than a 750/650/790. That's awful, and completely unacceptable.

For the record, I'm with goony.

 

Murton equals or betters Huff and Giles blows away Ibanez. I mean its not even close. When you add in the fact that Huff and Ibanez will likely be paid about the same as Giles and Murton (if you are saving anything by going with Huff/Ibanez, it won't be much), it makes even less sense. Then you throw in the players the Cubs would have to trade away to get Huff and Ibanez, one of them would likely be Murton, it makes even less sense.

 

This is a terrible idea. And if the Cubs go into the '06 season with an outfield of Huff, Patterson and Ibanez, they won't make the playoffs again next year.

[CubsWin]

I admit it: I am drinking from the Manny Kool-Aid.

 

Giles may be more realistic in terms of his "get-ability", that is unless his affinity for So-Cal is more truth than supposition.

Okay, so there is only one person in all of baseball that you would want more than Brian Giles. Good.

 

And I agree, that Giles is likely more "getable". Manny may be on the block, but the Cubs don't have the players to trade for him. Are you gonna trade DLee to get Manny?

 

And as far as the purpose of our discussion, which is RF, Manny cannot play RF by any stretch of the imagination. So, to get back on topic, is there any other RFer who is "getable" that is better than Brian Giles?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

So, to get back on topic, is there any other RFer who is "getable" that is better than Brian Giles?

 

Not unless Vlad or Miggy Cabrera become available.

[Roast]

Allright, Poll results are in, and it has been narrowed down to two choices.

 

1. Sign Brian Giles. Period.

2. Trade for Abreu, that failing, Get giles.

[USSoccer]

Allright, Poll results are in, and it has been narrowed down to two choices.

 

1. Sign Brian Giles. Period.

2. Trade for Abreu, that failing, Get giles.

 

Abreu will cost as much as Giles in terms of contract, plus the top prospects we'd have to give up, since Philly isn't going to just give him away.

 

Giles is the logical choice. The 2 players will put up similar numbers, are a similar age, but only one costs both money and prospects. We can ill afford to give up any top players. Thus, just spend the money and sign Giles.

[CubsWin]

Allright, Poll results are in, and it has been narrowed down to two choices.

 

1. Sign Brian Giles. Period.

2. Trade for Abreu, that failing, Get giles.

 

Abreu will cost as much as Giles in terms of contract, plus the top prospects we'd have to give up, since Philly isn't going to just give him away.

 

Giles is the logical choice. The 2 players will put up similar numbers, are a similar age, but only one costs both money and prospects. We can ill afford to give up any top players. Thus, just spend the money and sign Giles.

That's precisely why I voted for Giles.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Park Factors anyone?

 

Abreu

 

Home: .304/.423/.535/.958

Away: .268/.390/.416/.806

 

Giles

 

Home: .267/.378/.417/.795

Away: .333/.463/.545/1.008

[USSoccer]

Park Factors anyone?

 

Abreu

 

Home: .304/.423/.535/.958

Away: .268/.390/.416/.806

 

Giles

 

Home: .378/.417/.795

Away: .333/.463/.545/1.008

 

Very nice, CPatt :D

[Tim]

Park Factors anyone?

 

Abreu

 

Home: .304/.423/.535/.958

Away: .268/.390/.416/.806

 

Giles

 

Home: .267/.378/.417/.795

Away: .333/.463/.545/1.008

The Vet was a pitcher's stadium, though, and Abreu's numbers were just as good there.

 

I'm a kid in a candy store with these two, though, as they're my favorite non-Cubs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Park Factors anyone?

 

Abreu

 

Home: .304/.423/.535/.958

Away: .268/.390/.416/.806

 

Giles

 

Home: .267/.378/.417/.795

Away: .333/.463/.545/1.008

The Vet was a pitcher's stadium, though, and Abreu's numbers were just as good there.

 

I'm a kid in a candy store with these two, though, as they're my favorite non-Cubs.

 

Yeah, and Giles had a down season all around last year. I agree though that I would take either or both. Given the choice though, I'll take Giles because of the above, and the (lack of) player cost.